VALE - The Jaguar F-Type

[DFB FGXR6]

It's no secret that I'm a Jag man, for whatever reason, I have always been drawn to them. For the most part, it's that distinctive long bonnet profile and the organic styling cues that does it for me............curves in all the right places. Not to mention the dynamic prowess that went from strength to strength after Ford set them free.

Jaguar got a new lease on life under the guidance of the late Geof Pollites, bringing the brilliant first-gen XF sedan (and wagon) to market and modernizing how people looked at Jags. Stylistically, this also marked the point where Jaguar started to look forward and not backwards for inspiration. The following XJ and XE sedans, and F-Pace and E-Pace that came later looked modern and stood on their own without the need for retro influence.

The coupe models on the other hand, the XK and later F-Type, kept those classic styling cues, namely the oval shaped grill opening and curved haunches above the rear wheels. For me, the F-Type is my holey grail, the styling ticking every single box there is, the early pre-facelift version in particular.





And that's before you get to what lay under that stunning long bonnet. F-Types could be had in 4-cyclinder and V6 guises, the lighter engines made them more agile. But let's be real here, the one you want is the orgasmic supercharged 5.0 V8. Available in both RWD and AWD on later cars, this was the classic big engine in a small car type of deal. And the noise! I know it's corny, but they really did give those cars a big-cat growl.

This video NEVER get's old........................



And so, its sad to discover that the last F-Type, and the very last internal combustion Jaguar sports car, has been built.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...d-for-a-museum

Were there faster sports cars, probably. Were there more dynamic sports cars, the 911 would say yes. Were there more reliable sports cars, absolutely. But none could do what an F-Type did, be that sitting still or when carving up a piece of road.

The last F-Type will be kept by Jaguar and held within the Jaguar-Daimler Heritage Trust.





The end of an era and yet another legend laid to rest in the face of being seen to be "green".

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

It's no secret that I'm a Jag man, for whatever reason, I have always been drawn to them. For the most part, it's that distinctive long bonnet profile and the organic styling cues that does it for me............curves in all the right places. Not to mention the dynamic prowess that went from strength to strength after Ford set them free.

Jaguar got a new lease on life under the guidance of the late Geof Pollites, bringing the brilliant first-gen XF sedan (and wagon) to market and modernizing how people looked at Jags. Stylistically, this also marked the point where Jaguar started to look forward and not backwards for inspiration. The following XJ and XE sedans, and F-Pace and E-Pace that came later looked modern and stood on their own without the need for retro influence.

The coupe models on the other hand, the XK and later F-Type, kept those classic styling cues, namely the oval shaped grill opening and curved haunches above the rear wheels. For me, the F-Type is my holey grail, the styling ticking every single box there is, the early pre-facelift version in particular.

image

image

And that's before you get to what lay under that stunning long bonnet. F-Types could be had in 4-cyclinder and V6 guises, the lighter engines made them more agile. But let's be real here, the one you want is the orgasmic supercharged 5.0 V8. Available in both RWD and AWD on later cars, this was the classic big engine in a small car type of deal. And the noise! I know it's corny, but they really did give those cars a big-cat growl.

This video NEVER get's old........................



And so, its sad to discover that the last F-Type, and the very last internal combustion Jaguar sports car, has been built.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...d-for-a-museum

Were there faster sports cars, probably. Were there more dynamic sports cars, the 911 would say yes. Were there more reliable sports cars, absolutely. But none could do what an F-Type did, be that sitting still or when carving up a piece of road.

The last F-Type will be kept by Jaguar and held within the Jaguar-Daimler Heritage Trust.

image

image

The end of an era and yet another legend laid to rest in the face of being seen to be "green".

Kind of ironic given the British Racing 'Green' heritage...

[FTE217]

Yes very sad seeing a classic marque change so so much.
Always admired them myself and soft spot despite their issues.
Luved the XJS V12 in its day what a stand out design and timeless.
Mate not long ago had to move on his FPace - regrets it so much compared to having a new model hybrid Lexus, there is no vibe even his wife mentions this to him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HIPO]

Yes, agree with all of that DFB.

Was lucky enough to drive a mates tuned V6 F Type some yrs back & WOW!, something i wont forget.

[jpd80]

The whole reason that Ford sold off JLR was because the cost of developing new products was so steep,
they even made it a condition of sale that the new owner had to completely fund the near $8 billion cost
and that was early 2008. Sad to see the F Type go but I guess not enough people buying them any more.

[Big_Daz]

Great post DFB, and indeed a sad day. I was lucky enough to spend a decent amount of seat time driving a V6S F-Type owned by my brother in law. As a driving experience, top down in the Perth/Swan Valley sun, wife beside me, right up there.

Sad to see it killed off. Yet another enthusiast vehicle bites the dust...

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The whole reason that Ford sold off JLR was because the cost of developing new products was so steep,
they even made it a condition of sale that the new owner had to completely fund the near $8 billion cost
and that was early 2008. Sad to see the F Type go but I guess not enough people buying them any more.

In fairness, the F-Type was in production for 10 years, so it had a good run. It's just sad that there is no replacement in the pipeline.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by HIPO

Yes, agree with all of that DFB.

Was lucky enough to drive a mates tuned V6 F Type some yrs back & WOW!, something i wont forget.

I've done two Jaguar track days at Sandown and got to drive the 4-cylinfer, V6 and V8 variants back-to-back.

The first track day was my first time driving on a track, and it was raining that day, so my confidence was pretty low. Surprisingly, it was the V8 that gave me the most confidence, it just felt more planted, the AWD system helped on with that too.

One of the other attendees, who knew I was nervous, took this video of me heading down the front straight, still somewhat holding back.



That same day, I got a flamethrower lap in the V8 with Tony D'Alberto at the wheel. You don't realise how brutal their inputs are until you experience how a race driver approaches their craft. Brakes are on or they are off, very defined steering inputs, knowing exactly where to place the car for each corner.

The second track day I had a lot more fun, thankfully, this time on a dry track. Again, the V8 was the star of the show, its just so relentlessly fast, kinda like the Miami V8, just stouter.

I said this at the time, but very few get to own their ultimate dream car, let alone drive one............on a track with no speed limits. I proudly say that I have and loved every second of it.





I actually came across this blue F-Type SVR a year later on Carsales, listed as a "one owner".............................but with many, many drivers. All of those cars were thrashed endlessly day in, day out.

[HIPO]

You Sir have been plain spoiled! & that is a good thing in this case !

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by HIPO

You Sir have been plain spoiled! & that is a good thing in this case !

Attendees to those events are sectioned off into groups of 4, each getting allocated three cars to cycle through (the 4-pot, V6 and V8) and a professional driver. Sadly, my group didn't get the SVR version, it certainly sounded much more serious the regular F-Type R with that titanium exhaust. That said, I don't like the tacky fixed spoiler those cars got, aesthetically, no F-Type needs a spoiler!

I even love the sound of that starter winding over, accompanied by a hefty blip of revs.





One thing that struck me on the day was a very distinct odor as the cars would return to pit lane. This would be my first introduction to cooking brake pads, although its not something I have ever noticed when driving my Brembo equipped Mustang and XR8, or the XR6. I did however get our XE's brakes smelling like they did on those track days, so maybe its the specific pads Jaguar use.

Having said that, cars really do trigger all the human senses, except maybe taste. Sound, Sight, Smell, Touch and Feel.

[Big_Daz]

Very jealous you got to give the V8 ones a run… the V6 was fun, cns only imagine it with the awesome jag V8…

Have found the only pic I have of all the times I drove the F-type. The rest are on my sis in laws pc somewhere. Wasn’t the most out there spec, but fun metal with the white seats… has the upgraded exhaust as well… never mind my ugly mug…




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

Very jealous you got to give the V8 ones a run… the V6 was fun, cns only imagine it with the awesome jag V8…

Have found the only pic I have of all the times I drove the F-type. The rest are on my sis in laws pc somewhere. Wasn’t the most out there spec, but fun metal with the white seats… has the upgraded exhaust as well… never mind my ugly mug…

image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The V6 models were still quite fast, for a while there they also offered it with a 6-speed manual. The combination of the 90-degree V6 with the supercharger made for a somewhat unique sound. As I have said in the past, Jaguar put a lot of effort into exhaust notes, even the 4-pots had a nice growl to them.

Hey GM, this is how you do a supercharged 90-degree V6................





Many people say that the V6 is the sweet spot because of less weight hanging over the front axle. On later cars, the V8 got AWD so that kinda makes some sense. But the strange thing about the V6 though was it carried the same physical footprint as the V8, all they did was block off the rear cylinders. Any weight saving would have been minimal.







I would have though using a supercharged Ford Duratec V6 would have been a better solution. Previous V6 Jag's were in fact based on the Duratec, 60-degree 2.1, 2.5 and 3.0 versions with specific Jaguar cylinder heads for higher-than-Ford outputs. The 3.0 version continued through most of the original XF model run and was actually quite a sweet engine.

But what would have so cool would be them putting the newer turbo inline 6 in the F-Type, that would have had a lot marketing clout.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The V6 models were still quite fast, for a while there they also offered it with a 6-speed manual. The combination of the 90-degree V6 with the supercharger made for a somewhat unique sound. As I have said in the past, Jaguar put a lot of effort into exhaust notes, even the 4-pots had a nice growl to them.

Hey GM, this is how you do a supercharged 90-degree V6................

Many people say that the V6 is the sweet spot because of less weight hanging over the front axle. On later cars, the V8 got AWD so that kinda makes some sense. But the strange thing about the V6 though was it carried the same physical footprint as the V8, all they did was block off the rear cylinders. Any weight saving would have been minimal.
original XF model run and was actually quite a sweet engine.
.

Your dead right, it was still a quick car. Handled well, and the noise *chefs kiss*.. incredible. Because Sis/Bro in law knew the family who own those exotic dealers I was actually meant to have a run in a V8 convertible but the demo wasn't available while I was there (Perth on holidays). Did get to drive an Aston Martin Rapide though, but that's a whole other story...

[Sprintey]

Well done DFBXR6 on all the above, what a car and a great look into it. It's not just the F-Type that is getting the chop, XE/XF/F-Pace/E-Pace/I-Pace are all being wound up (last builds this month for some of them) and Jag will re-emerge as fully electric, high end Bentley competitor with 3 SUVs and maybe a 4 door sedan (?). Gutsy strategy. It would have been nice for the F-Pace to continue, it just got better and better with the I6s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMr2vUg_zU

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Well done DFBXR6 on all the above, what a car and a great look into it. It's not just the F-Type that is getting the chop, XE/XF/F-Pace/E-Pace/I-Pace are all being wound up (last builds this month for some of them) and Jag will re-emerge as fully electric, high end Bentley competitor with 3 SUVs and maybe a 4 door sedan (?). Gutsy strategy. It would have been nice for the F-Pace to continue, it just got better and better with the I6s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMr2vUg_zU

I'm at a loss with that strategy. You would think they would have product ready to go, but they seem to be stopping production with nothing ready to take their place. That is basically Jaguar's death sentence.

[DFB FGXR6]

Thinking about the fate of Jaguar, I can't help wonder how they could never become truly successful, even with deep pockets from Tata and a slew of decent products.

Was it because of past reliability grievances? Probably, but then I would hardly call an equivalent BMW a paragon of reliability either. Was it price? The plethora of individual options made it seem as if the cars were underequipped or expensive to spec. Again, Jaguar are not alone with that, in fact they standardized a lot of that sort of thing over the last 3 to 5 years. Perhaps the styling was considered too soft, lacking flair? But then people complain about the horrible BMW grills and the over styled Lexus grills? Maybe it was an image thing, as in, only old men buy Jag's.

Because from where I stand, apart from the above, I think there was a lot to like about the modern Jaguar models.

Personally, I think they drive better than the equivalent BMW. The XE for example is/was more in line with what the 3-Series used to be, as in a compact, agile sports sedan that had a dynamic baseline built into even the least powerful variants. The F-Pace is arguably the best driving SUV on the market. The steering on both makes them feel agile and responsive, a real highlight of the cars in my opinion. The ride, while firm due to large wheels and tyres found on most models, has plenty of travel to soak up undulations with ease.

Apart from the lovely exhaust notes and urgent response, the 2.0 Ingenium engines were not all that interesting, but no different to the equivalent BMW/Audi/Mercedes engines. The 8-speed ZF is the best automatic on the market. And when you take a look underneath the cars, the way Jaguar designed the suspension components is quite impressive, far beefer than you expect, which was apparently a Jaguar internal standard.

The styling of each model lacked the shouty look-at-me attitude, but in its place was perfect proportions, carefully profiled body creases and short overhangs.................again, something BMW once did. The interiors were somewhat bland, but simple and easy to use. Build quality is good too.

We have had an XE 2.0t since 2016, in a somewhat rare colour combination of Odyssey Red over Light Oyster interior. Even though it only has 200 hp, the light weight aluminum body makes it decently quick, teamed with that chassis, its a joy to drive. It had a couple of minor things rectified under warranty, but nothing that I would call serious or deter me buying another. Actually, I really don't know what I would replace this car with.















This car has turned more heads and garnered more comment over the years than my similar vintage bright red Mustang. Clearly people love Jaguar's, but not enough to buy one over a German brand.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Thinking about the fate of Jaguar, I can't help wonder how they could never become truly successful, even with deep pockets from Tata and a slew of decent products.

Was it because of past reliability grievances? Probably, but then I would hardly call an equivalent BMW a paragon of reliability either. Was it price? The plethora of individual options made it seem as if the cars were underequipped or expensive to spec. Again, Jaguar are not alone with that, in fact they standardized a lot of that sort of thing over the last 3 to 5 years. Perhaps the styling was considered too soft, lacking flair? But then people complain about the horrible BMW grills and the over styled Lexus grills? Maybe it was an image thing, as in, only old men buy Jag's.

Because from where I stand, apart from the above, I think there was a lot to like about the modern Jaguar models.

Personally, I think they drive better than the equivalent BMW. The XE for example is/was more in line with what the 3-Series used to be, as in a compact, agile sports sedan that had a dynamic baseline built into even the least powerful variants. The F-Pace is arguably the best driving SUV on the market. The steering on both makes them feel agile and responsive, a real highlight of the cars in my opinion. The ride, while firm due to large wheels and tyres found on most models, has plenty of travel to soak up undulations with ease.

Apart from the lovely exhaust notes and urgent response, the 2.0 Ingenium engines were not all that interesting, but no different to the equivalent BMW/Audi/Mercedes engines. The 8-speed ZF is the best automatic on the market. And when you take a look underneath the cars, the way Jaguar designed the suspension components is quite impressive, far beefer than you expect, which was apparently a Jaguar internal standard.

The styling of each model lacked the shouty look-at-me attitude, but in its place was perfect proportions, carefully profiled body creases and short overhangs.................again, something BMW once did. The interiors were somewhat bland, but simple and easy to use. Build quality is good too.

We have had an XE 2.0t since 2016, in a somewhat rare colour combination of Odyssey Red over Light Oyster interior. Even though it only has 200 hp, the light weight aluminum body makes it decently quick, teamed with that chassis, its a joy to drive. It had a couple of minor things rectified under warranty, but nothing that I would call serious or deter me buying another. Actually, I really don't know what I would replace this car with.

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This car has turned more heads and garnered more comment over the years than my similar vintage bright red Mustang. Clearly people love Jaguar's, but not enough to buy one over a German brand.

The only answer I can come up with, is everything good must end. If it's not a Toyota, SUV or Thai Special, we won't buy it.

My next prediction for the chopping block in Australia? 5 Series and E Class sedans. Closely followed by the 3 and C younger siblings.

[smoo]

Nice car and colour combo DFB.

Two things that come to mind regarding Jaguar. Unsure how accurate this is.

Their demographic have always been old men, I suspect many of them pre baby boomer haven’t bought in the last fifteen years.
Due to age, their current car sufficing, or the direction Jag went post X350 XJ with non traditional styling.
Modern Jags XF and XJ could be any other car. Your dash board could be out of something Asian/American or mainstream Euro, and the instrument cluster wouldn’t look out of place in a Mazda 6 etc. I imagine many traditional Jag buyers were put off by the styling direction of the late 2000s into the 2010s.

[.:4:.]

Years back the owner of a mob my mob used to work with was a notoriously difficult person to work with. Anyhows i did my customer service thing to get him on my side. At the time he had an x type. Going off the fact it had the leaping cat bonnet ornimant not the flat badge i asked him if it was an 05. He said good eye, but he got that put on and its an 03. My dad bought an xtype new in 2002 so i said that. Now this bloke was funny, he said to me 'you know its a ford?' which i did. Then he goes on to tell me his favourite car was his ba fairmont but his 7th wife (yes 7th, he was on number 9 at this point) refused to be seen in a ford so bought the jag. A few years after that he bought a used aston martin db9. Same thing, you know its a ford.....

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by smoo

Nice car and colour combo DFB.

Two things that come to mind regarding Jaguar. Unsure how accurate this is.

Their demographic have always been old men, I suspect many of them pre baby boomer haven’t bought in the last fifteen years.
Due to age, their current car sufficing, or the direction Jag went post X350 XJ with non traditional styling.
Modern Jags XF and XJ could be any other car. Your dash board could be out of something Asian/American or mainstream Euro, and the instrument cluster wouldn’t look out of place in a Mazda 6 etc. I imagine many traditional Jag buyers were put off by the styling direction of the late 2000s into the 2010s.

Stephanie Rice's lack of media savvy comes to mind. But maybe that flurry also had an effect on sales.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by smoo

Nice car and colour combo DFB.

Two things that come to mind regarding Jaguar. Unsure how accurate this is.

Their demographic have always been old men, I suspect many of them pre baby boomer haven’t bought in the last fifteen years.
Due to age, their current car sufficing, or the direction Jag went post X350 XJ with non traditional styling.
Modern Jags XF and XJ could be any other car. Your dash board could be out of something Asian/American or mainstream Euro, and the instrument cluster wouldn’t look out of place in a Mazda 6 etc. I imagine many traditional Jag buyers were put off by the styling direction of the late 2000s into the 2010s.

Made some pretty good points actually.....
Reviewing DFB's dash and steering wheel, I think that look/design are pretty common amongst most brands so I don't think thats much of a game changer imo BUT.......
2 barriers come to mind more than anything else.
1. Their reputation from way way back, talking Oz.
QC was woeful going back from the 60's and its stuck alot.
Engine oil leaks a plenty/gearboxs - electrics.
My ol mans boss in the 70's was a top honcho UK ex pat sent to run the company.
Got to know the bloke over many years but the ol man would tell me stories that Jags are the only company car he'd get And worse his wife would have Triumph Stags haha double whammys.
The XJ's he'd have either 4door or the mighty looking XJS coupe, door handles would just drop off, trim this trim that.
Add the driveline stuff I mentioned his cars we're back under WTY repairs forever and a day.
Throw in the Stag hahaha gluton for punishment.
Next was Distribution.
Put aside the quality points - you can't sell many units without Dealers here there everywhere.
Most in major cities obviously, who would own one in the regional areas, madness barring the exception.
Not to holden Ford or Jap levels BUT you could count Jag dealers so unit wise up a creek without a paddle.

The Ford tenure really helped their QC no doubt about it but it was all too late.

Would have really liked a Jag but I wasn't going near one - mind you I looked very closely to jumping into the sports versions what DFB has.
They do look damn nice !

A very good mate had a F Pace from new.
He and Mrs's luved it feel and go.
Trouble was its engine cooked under 50thou k's mid last year.
Jag had to get the replacement donk sent from the UK, he had to fight for a loaner for this took 6mths !
Finally got the Jag back within 2 wks the wife was sitting at lights and the dash went off like vivid.
Stuck couldn't move.
Towey comes along, coolant all over the engine bay and ground.
My mate had enough, sorted out the Jag dealer cut his loss's went into a new hybrid Lexus equiv.
Funnily even though the Jag was a dog they miss its touch/feel and go compared to the white goods.
Amazing, so Jag sure has something that the others don't have smoo I reckon.

[Charliewool]

Dentist I used to go to was a mad Jag man.. Especially E types.
His V12 E type rego was FANG10.. Double meaning amused me

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by smoo

Nice car and colour combo DFB.

Two things that come to mind regarding Jaguar. Unsure how accurate this is.

Their demographic have always been old men, I suspect many of them pre baby boomer haven’t bought in the last fifteen years.
Due to age, their current car sufficing, or the direction Jag went post X350 XJ with non traditional styling.
Modern Jags XF and XJ could be any other car. Your dash board could be out of something Asian/American or mainstream Euro, and the instrument cluster wouldn’t look out of place in a Mazda 6 etc. I imagine many traditional Jag buyers were put off by the styling direction of the late 2000s into the 2010s.

Funnily enough, I was showing one of my Aunt's that we had bought a Jaguar, when she jumped in, the first thing she said was "where is the wood dashboard". The wood is there, its just not the slabs of old (it's really hard photograph, but it curves around the window line above the dash and then runs into the wood door trim).

The one thing I don't like is the badly integrated head up display module that sits above the instrument binnacle, its so ugly.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by FTE217

A very good mate had a F Pace from new.
He and Mrs's luved it feel and go.
Trouble was its engine cooked under 50thou k's mid last year.
Jag had to get the replacement donk sent from the UK, he had to fight for a loaner for this took 6mths !
Finally got the Jag back within 2 wks the wife was sitting at lights and the dash went off like vivid.
Stuck couldn't move.
Towey comes along, coolant all over the engine bay and ground.
My mate had enough, sorted out the Jag dealer cut his loss's went into a new hybrid Lexus equiv.
Funnily even though the Jag was a dog they miss its touch/feel and go compared to the white goods.
Amazing, so Jag sure has something that the others don't have smoo I reckon.

That's not a nice story to hear, sadly it still happens.

Actually, it's also hardly confined to JLR. My father got a new engine on his Ranger Wildtrak at just 40,000km. Despite Ford advising that the parts were ready, after yanking the old engine, they realized that something was not in stock, he ended up waiting two months for the replacement engine, the povo spec XLS loaner ended up doing several thousand km's while this was happening.

[FTE217]

yes I agree DFB no brand is brilliant really, just some deal with issues better than others.
They all have their issues no matter the marque, like I said its more so how many dealers are around.
As we know MB has enough dealers and they sell in fair numbers and expensive.
A fellow T forumer his son is a high credentialed Tech, they have lifted out AMG engines under 50thu k's a number of times needing replacements, you just don't hear about it !

By the way I luv your Jag, you know I considered one, good you have a behaving one by the sound of it despite the lack of use, maybe thats the key LOL......

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by FTE217

yes I agree DFB no brand is brilliant really, just some deal with issues better than others.
They all have their issues no matter the marque, like I said its more so how many dealers are around.
As we know MB has enough dealers and they sell in fair numbers and expensive.
A fellow T forumer his son is a high credentialed Tech, they have lifted out AMG engines under 50thu k's a number of times needing replacements, you just don't hear about it !

By the way I luv your Jag, you know I considered one, good you have a behaving one by the sound of it despite the lack of use, maybe thats the key LOL......

Yeah, probably.......................

It's only had two things needing attention......................

- The AEB sensor in the windscreen died within a few months of ownership, taken care of under warranty.

- A cracked A/C line that allowed the gas charge to escape. Apparently that issue was confined to early build examples, mine is a 2015. This was repaired outside of warranty but was alarmingly cheap all things considered.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I'm at a loss with that strategy. You would think they would have product ready to go, but they seem to be stopping production with nothing ready to take their place. That is basically Jaguar's death sentence.

You see, that is the strategy of "put a Frenchman in charge of an English car company," and not taking into account he will act in revenge...

If I were Adrian Mardell (sp?) the first thing I would have done in event of Bollore's resignation would be to keep the F-Pace in production (it sells, it actually gets decent sales) and even if the sedans have to go, at least keep the 'Grace Pace and Space' in a market where your loyal customers can purchase it. Edit: can afford to purchase it.

It seems Jag is being used to get electric credits so that Range Rovers can continue to use petrol. They'll sell 27 cars.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Thinking about the fate of Jaguar, I can't help wonder how they could never become truly successful, even with deep pockets from Tata and a slew of decent products.

Was it because of past reliability grievances? Probably, but then I would hardly call an equivalent BMW a paragon of reliability either. Was it price? The plethora of individual options made it seem as if the cars were underequipped or expensive to spec. Again, Jaguar are not alone with that, in fact they standardized a lot of that sort of thing over the last 3 to 5 years. Perhaps the styling was considered too soft, lacking flair? But then people complain about the horrible BMW grills and the over styled Lexus grills? Maybe it was an image thing, as in, only old men buy Jag's.

Because from where I stand, apart from the above, I think there was a lot to like about the modern Jaguar models.

Personally, I think they drive better than the equivalent BMW. The XE for example is/was more in line with what the 3-Series used to be, as in a compact, agile sports sedan that had a dynamic baseline built into even the least powerful variants. The F-Pace is arguably the best driving SUV on the market. The steering on both makes them feel agile and responsive, a real highlight of the cars in my opinion. The ride, while firm due to large wheels and tyres found on most models, has plenty of travel to soak up undulations with ease.

Apart from the lovely exhaust notes and urgent response, the 2.0 Ingenium engines were not all that interesting, but no different to the equivalent BMW/Audi/Mercedes engines. The 8-speed ZF is the best automatic on the market. And when you take a look underneath the cars, the way Jaguar designed the suspension components is quite impressive, far beefer than you expect, which was apparently a Jaguar internal standard.

The styling of each model lacked the shouty look-at-me attitude, but in its place was perfect proportions, carefully profiled body creases and short overhangs.................again, something BMW once did. The interiors were somewhat bland, but simple and easy to use. Build quality is good too.

We have had an XE 2.0t since 2016, in a somewhat rare colour combination of Odyssey Red over Light Oyster interior. Even though it only has 200 hp, the light weight aluminum body makes it decently quick, teamed with that chassis, its a joy to drive. It had a couple of minor things rectified under warranty, but nothing that I would call serious or deter me buying another. Actually, I really don't know what I would replace this car with.

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This car has turned more heads and garnered more comment over the years than my similar vintage bright red Mustang. Clearly people love Jaguar's, but not enough to buy one over a German brand.

Stunning colour combo, beautiful XE. When you see more robust suspension components I have discovered just the same looking under my son's S1 Discovery - it's seriously overbuilt and can absorb a tremendous amount of punishment. The engineering is thoughtful too, with things like the alternator placed up as high as possible, and many breathing tubes from things like diffs. Comparing to 1990s stuff from Aussie and Japan I've owned, it's actually... better.

Looking under L322 Range Rovers, and the new Defender, the build of them is really robust. Having 80+ separate computers (as the engineer boasted at the Defender launch) is just no no no! If they built as they do, but with simple and reliable electrics, they'd be top of the world.

I agree with you that your car will be difficult to replace. It's basically where the Falcon probably would have gone - a bit smaller, lighter, turbo 4 8speed ZF, option of bigger engines; and excellent handling.comfort mix.

The F-Pace being of aluminium construction won't rust, either...

[Sprintey]

Oh yeah on topic, I can remember the first F-Type I ever saw, it was outside a country pub in Northamptonshire I think, when it was very new, looked completely horn in the fading sunset light in it's gold paint, and I was struck by just how wide it was in the tail, wide for those rear wheels. I don't have much use for supercars (gotta carry a surfboard is basic parameter), but this one is about my favourite of the lot.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Stunning colour combo, beautiful XE.

Looking under L322 Range Rovers, and the new Defender, the build of them is really robust. Having 80+ separate computers (as the engineer boasted at the Defender launch) is just no no no! If they built as they do, but with simple and reliable electrics, they'd be top of the world.

I agree with you that your car will be difficult to replace. It's basically where the Falcon probably would have gone - a bit smaller, lighter, turbo 4 8speed ZF, option of bigger engines; and excellent handling.comfort mix.

The F-Pace being of aluminium construction won't rust, either...

It's such a charismatic colour..................









I can't remember where I read or viewed it, but the apparently Jaguar's internal standards for suspension design placed an emphasis on robustness over cost control. When you look at the heft and bulkiness of the suspension arm, its quite impressive. This transferred to the transverse platforms used in the Discovery Sport, Range Rover Evoke and E-Pace.





My vision for a modern Falcon would have been more in line with the first generation XF, which was a bit smaller than the current/outgoing model and was smaller than the equivalent E-Class/5-Series at the time, or basically the same size as the current 3-Series. So, a little smaller, lighter, less bulk.

Chassis wise, I would have kept the front suspension from the FG (aluminum double wishbone), but a redesigned rear end, perhaps based on the Mustang's multi-link setup, or the current RWD Explorer. Magneride would feature.

Base engine would be the 2.0 EcoBoost. Seeing as we are dreaming here, the old inline 6 would have been re-invested, the iron block would remain, but the capacity dropped back to 3.2 and the rev limit increased to 7250 rpm. All would be turbocharged, the base power sitting at 225 kW, the XR6 Turbo would have 300 kW. The latest naturally aspirated Coyote with 350 kW would be for the XR8, the GT would have the 5.2 Predator from the GT500 Mustang. All models would have the standard issue 10-Speed auto.

But, knowing how things work, Ford would struggle to sell them to just about anyone, enthusiasts wouldn't buy them new, rather second hand. And then when Ford stops making it due to lack of sales, everyone that didn't buy a new one would complain about the situation.