Old School Touring car Driver's

[mondeomatureguy]

Hi Guy's,
Like some of you on this fourm i grew up with these driver's Allan Moffat, Peter Brock, Dick Johnson, Kevin Bartlett and the list goes on.

The car's were just about stock standard some of the driver's drove them to the track raced them, then drove them home again.
I just finished reading a book about the late Peter brock and it made me think that all the races that Peter Brock and Allan Moffat raced against each other you never saw them punt each other off the track.


Allan Moffat and Peter Brock are the only driver's to win in both the bathurst 500 and the Bathurst 1000.
I think Allan Moffat was our first professional touring car driver was back in the 70s when most of the other driver's had Job's and would just race on the weekend's.

One thing that has changed since those old day's at Bathurst any way is the safety aspect.
When they were racing in the Bathurst 500 and the Bathurst 1000 the race is going on and the two truck is also going around the race track picking up broken down car's how bad was that?

[mad2]

and don't forget the saying .... win sunday, sell monday [or something like that] - pretty well what you saw racing you could buy & drive it on the road ... legally

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by mad2

and don't forget the saying .... win sunday, sell monday [or something like that] - pretty well what you saw racing you could buy & drive it on the road ... legally

Dude from NASCAR in the 60's come up with that, am sure Chevy pulled the Corvette from racing and replaced it with the Camaro, to sell more Camaro's


Cheers Billy.

[Rob 351]

You sit back and watch some of those old video’s and the way they used to throw the car around like Geoghean, Beechey, Jane did back in the 60’s and then Moffat, Brock, Johnson and Grice in the 70’s and 80’s and you wonder how many of the current drivers could handle that type of driving. Even DJ in the Sierra back in the 80’s! How many of today’s drivers could handle that beast?
Loved some of the old clips at places like Warwick Farm with the HO’s racing the Morris Coopers, David v Goliath, just great racing by legendary drivers in legendary cars...

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Dude from NASCAR in the 60's come up with that, am sure Chevy pulled the Corvette from racing and replaced it with the Camaro, to sell more Camaro's


Cheers Billy.

Close but no lollipop It was an old drag racer and Ford Dealer who is credited with coming up with the term in the late 50's early 60's, his name was Bob Tasca and he used racing (mainly drag racing to start with) to sell cars, Tasca Ford were/are into racing big time and still push racing in there advertising today.

https://www.wardsauto.com/dealer/dea...ay-sell-monday

Tasca: He accomplished so much on the drag strip and back at the dealership. He coined the term, “Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.” There is no truer statement when it comes to the sport of drag racing.

Tasca Search

https://www.tasca.com/

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...stang-boss-429

There's a book still available with the term on the front cover.



Tasca Search

[roKWiz]

Growing up in Sydney, the most exciting races I ever watched were at Amaroo Park, my favourite place to sit was at the top of The Crest (later known as Bitupave Hill) A great track which favoured pure torque unlike Oran Park.
I remember first seeing poor (BigRev) Kevin Bartlett with his big old Camaro and lack of cornering ability.

Such a crowd pleasing place due to being able to see most of the circuit.

Seeing that tow truck out on Amaroo while the racing continued was just part of the entertainment we never thought about how dangerous it could have been.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by mondeomatureguy

Hi Guy's,
Like some of you on this fourm i grew up with these driver's Allan Moffat, Peter Brock, Dick Johnson, Kevin Bartlett and the list goes on.

The car's were just about stock standard some of the driver's drove them to the track raced them, then drove them home again.
I just finished reading a book about the late Peter brock and it made me think that all the races that Peter Brock and Allan Moffat raced against each other you never saw them punt each other off the track.


Allan Moffat and Peter Brock are the only driver's to win in both the bathurst 500 and the Bathurst 1000.
I think Allan Moffat was our first professional touring car driver was back in the 70s when most of the other driver's had Job's and would just race on the weekend's.

One thing that has changed since those old day's at Bathurst any way is the safety aspect.
When they were racing in the Bathurst 500 and the Bathurst 1000 the race is going on and the two truck is also going around the race track picking up broken down car's how bad was that?

If the book was "The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock", I loved some of the stories about Perkins in there. Him taking a HDT test mule on a detour via a 'disco' in his old home town; and doing a runner from cops on the Tullamarine freeway in HDT VK (road car) then shaving his moustache to try to avoid being ID'ed (but still being ID'ed and losing his license). Think the cops first went after PB as car was rego'ed in his name but he had solid alibi of being out of country at the time.

Re the different era of racing and safety aspects, I love some of the stories about how they would finish Bathurst with bruise on their right hip from continually hitting the driver's door armrest (standard seatbelts not holding them in place and Bathurst being anti-clockwise direction); Moph hydrating on cans of coke; and was it Garry Rogers that rolled it on top of mountain and had cut-up oranges flying around the cabin after escaping his centre consol?

[slowsnake]

Indy 500

Firestone was an expert marketer and harnessed the popularity of the new sport of racing to his company’s advantage. In 1908, Firestone created the first all-rubber, non-skid tire. Fast-forward three years and the winner of the inaugural Indy 500, Ray Harroun, was driving a Firestone-equipped car to victory on May 30, 1911.

“Today, the driver knows that his victory in the race and his life depends to a great extent upon how good his tires are,” Firestone said later in his life. The Firestone brand’s association with the race correlated with a spike in sales the morning after race day. This was the beginning of the “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” mantra that has come to define modern NASCAR races.



Cheers Billy.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Indy 500

Firestone was an expert marketer and harnessed the popularity of the new sport of racing to his company’s advantage. In 1908, Firestone created the first all-rubber, non-skid tire. Fast-forward three years and the winner of the inaugural Indy 500, Ray Harroun, was driving a Firestone-equipped car to victory on May 30, 1911.

“Today, the driver knows that his victory in the race and his life depends to a great extent upon how good his tires are,” Firestone said later in his life. The Firestone brand’s association with the race correlated with a spike in sales the morning after race day. This was the beginning of the “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” mantra that has come to define modern NASCAR races.

Cheers Billy.

That's correct, the phenomenon has existed for nearly as long as cars have been racing, the terminology is all Bob Tasca's though.

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Growing up in Sydney, the most exciting races I ever watched were at Amaroo Park, my favourite place to sit was at the top of The Crest (later known as Bitupave Hill) A great track which favoured pure torque unlike Oran Park.
I remember first seeing poor (BigRev) Kevin Bartlett with his big old Camaro and lack of cornering ability.

Such a crowd pleasing place due to being able to see most of the circuit.

Seeing that tow truck out on Amaroo while the racing continued was just part of the entertainment we never thought about how dangerous it could have been.

Outside of Bathurst, Amaroo was probably my favourite circuit to watch. From Alfa suds to touring cars, everything just seemed more exciting. You were always waiting for the next corner, more braking duels, panel rubbing, and sideways drifting over the hill.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by anobserver

Outside of Bathurst, Amaroo was probably my favourite circuit to watch. From Alfa suds to touring cars, everything just seemed more exciting. You were always waiting for the next corner, more braking duels, panel rubbing, and sideways drifting over the hill.

Oh yeah, some of those Formula V and other open wheeler racers were so exciting to, never forget the introduction of the HQ class with half of them running out of brakes after lap 1.
At least they get a chance could cool the brake down a little on long straights like at Oran Park.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

That's correct, the phenomenon has existed for nearly as long as cars have been racing, the terminology is all Bob Tasca's though.

Geez ya never give me a lollipop, what have I got to do to get one?..beside be right of course


Cheers Telly Savalas

[FTE217]

ah nostolga !
Wish I wasn't in this catergry but alas I am like some here......
Sydneyite and the ol bloke being in the Aftermarket game took us countless times to Oran/Amaroo parks.
As all here what a hoot it was, the fumes,sounds and our Idols.
Moff was and is my King.
Amaroo we always too our spots at Winfield Corner, back straight leading onto main straight.
Man, as soon as the ol bloke parked we dashed like mad to our fav spots before anyone could take them, also talk about OH&S of today, that was a high cliff face you'd be watching from, NO fencing no warning signs lol......
Memories too many and as the years go by I can't recall so much
Though, apart from the countless Touring Cars rounds never forget how they used to smash up those Alfas there, pieces flying everywhere.
Capris, Snr Seto and others, what a great car for that track.
Cars on fire, smashed into rock faces, it had it all
Don't forget at Bathurst many cars back in those days had bench seats as well.
My Mum tells me growing old isn't for wimps, todays drivers, imagine them doing Bathurst solo, no co driver as it once was.
OR drivers like Gricy/Brock/Chivas etc - motorhomes, massages, mental therapy,yer right, sitting around the pit having a fag before getting back out again for the 2nd heat.
Ah the good times.

[mondeomatureguy]

Hi guy's
Like FTE-217 Allan moffat was and is still my idol. The car's they have now are faster, brake better, handle better, have better tyres. As FTE-217 said imagine the driver's now doing the bathurst 1000 solo, or doing the race with hardly any brakes like they used to do years back.

I used to go to Amaroo park, Oran park, and see those hard core driver's going at it hard and fast.
As far as driver's went you either loved Allan Moffat or hated him, but he did a lot for touring car raceing in Australia.
He had a shot at cam's after his falcon caught fire while it was being refilled with Fuel and said when asked what happened " you can blame cams for this when they bring in the dry brake system to stop cars burning to the ground ".

The dry brake system cam to Australia, and another thing was Allan was very good to his sponsors and very loyal to them.
At the age of 50 years old Allan retired, there was no farewell tour. I read his book Climbing the Mountain and if you get a chance guy's read it, its a really good read.

I like the part in the Book when Jacky Ickx who of course drove with Allan in 1977 and he came into the pits saying "the brakes don't work in the falcon coupe".
Allan took the car around the track and he came back to the pit's and said "jacky the brakes are ok". Then jacky said " They don't stop the car" which Allan replied " i didn't say they will stop the car just slow it down".

[FTE217]

Yes Moff was the leader of progessionlism to the sport.
Not that HDT or prior were useless for GM/Holden were always happy throwing the $$'s to Firth BUT Moff went the extra mile, flying to the US and car for testing, '77 he had American Carroll Smith as crew chief.
Vast exoerience in Shelby Racing and other Ford racing programs.
Typical Moff, what edge can I find and did.

Hehe love the response to Ickx.
In other words its a Aussie big heavy motha Falcon LOL.
The euro drivers back then must have thought, well infact they did quote as such and our drivers giggled as well, WTF the track is deadly, the aussie cars don't steer,stop or grip
Oh what days.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by mondeomatureguy

As FTE-217 said imagine the driver's now doing the bathurst 1000 solo,

I realise I'm being a bit pedantic, but the solo drives were in the 500 mile days, not 1000 km.

Still that's 800 km so it's not a bad effort.

Dr Terry

[Rob 351]

I’m blessed to be able to drive an XC Coupe, how they raced the things and won against the nimble Torana’s I’ll never know...
Moffat, Bond, Gossy, Carter, Johnson and co who raced them are living legends of Motorsport.

[FTE217]

yes Rob, absolute Legends no matter their resume.

Gossy, prior to his KB Mountain win and JRA drive his greatest feats was his love driving our Falcons and sadly many times till he blew them up lol......
I don't recall how many times whilst at Oran Park Gossy would lead the pack like a cut snake for X laps to then see smoke starting to come from the rear, the bugga would keep driving like mad till it near on gave up in the meantime a massive smoke screen would be billowing out lol.....
Ah those days what a hoot but then again I'd be all upset 1 of our Fords was out of action.
Hey don't forget coming to party late Masterton, the mention of Amaroo he was the Capri king then stepped up to the Falcon.
That last XE was a rippa !

[Rob 351]

I think I recall DJ mentioning before how good Steve Mastertons XE was FTE, even suggested that it was possibly a better Xe than Greens Tuf Mk 2.
Steve owned Amaroo in 84 in that car, was almost unstoppable in the Better Brakes Series that year. He had some ding dong battles with Grice there as well during the ‘air flap gate’ season of 83. The boy could peddle that’s for sure.
Like a few on here, I loved Amaroo Park back in the day. Right up there with Oran Park and Lakeside in Qld as one of the great tracks in our country of the time.
I can recall being a teenage kid back in the early 80’s and along with a good mate of the time, catching a train from the Hunter Valley to Campbelltown train station via Central, and then legging it to Oran Park to watch DJ race Greens Tuf. Was over an hours walk/run iirc but it was worth it. I got to see my all time Motorsport hero race one of the most legendary cars to grace our race tracks…
He didn’t win that day, but it didn’t particularly matter. Was just a blast to be able to say I did it.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by FTE217

yes Rob, absolute Legends no matter their resume.

Gossy, prior to his KB Mountain win and JRA drive his greatest feats was his love driving our Falcons and sadly many times till he blew them up lol......
I don't recall how many times whilst at Oran Park Gossy would lead the pack like a cut snake for X laps to then see smoke starting to come from the rear, the bugga would keep driving like mad till it near on gave up in the meantime a massive smoke screen would be billowing out lol.....
Ah those days what a hoot but then again I'd be all upset 1 of our Fords was out of action.
Hey don't forget coming to party late Masterton, the mention of Amaroo he was the Capri king then stepped up to the Falcon.
That last XE was a rippa !

I think Amaroo was the first place I saw the big green Jags of Walkinshaw with everyone displaying their disapproval at the time.
I followed Brocky, probably due to my father owning 2 Chev trucks and buying new station wagons every year. Was gutted to see him showed up racing that M3.

[FTE217]

Rob 351 re Mastertons XE, I think thats right it was quoted it was a better version of Greens Tuff, the benefit of fine tuning DJ's lead.
It was a sexy beautifully presented XE might I add, pity it was at the end GrpC from memory. Masterton was very good argeed.
Ah Better Brakes Series, your memory is good.
Like the trek to Oran, much like Amaroo, way way out of the way.

roKwiz, can't recall the Jags at Amaroo but again so many years ago.
Haha Brock in the BM's, who would have picked that.
Mentioning BM good ol Richo was un stoppable in those beautifully presented Gardner JPS ones, Longhurst in the M3 and he in the 6series.
Cut up Amaroo like butter.

I recall the first time seeing Gibbo disappointing me greatly going to the dark side with the Winfield Commi's with Skaife at Amaroo.

Heres a good article on the mighty MFD
https://www.pressreader.com/australi...83265981564472
One pic is warm memories, Oran Park BP Bend.

[slowsnake]

First time I went to Oran Park, maybe 1970 or 71? My Aussie mate and twin cam escort owner Wazza, asked me what I was barracking for, I said the Yellow Jag of course!...he said that's so and so driving it?
Can anyone tell me who was driving the Jag?...


Cheers Billy.

[FTE217]

Sports Sedans ?

[GT450]

Gary Wilmington??

[Rob 351]

First round of the atcc at Oran Park was 71 so it can’t have been a touring car as there were no Jags racing in the atcc in 71.
Sports Sedans maybe....

[FTE217]

not a bad punt there GT450.....
I'm still tyring to think who else jumped in a Jag them days, more so he's quoting around '70/71 for I don't recall many later shape racing then compared to the earlier Mk11/3's in the 60's.
I don't think its a ATCC round.
Looking forward to the info.

edit - yep agreed Rob 351, as I mentioned earlier got to supports, sport sedans.

[FTE217]

mondeomatureguy, love your thread for the ol days and not wanting to stray tooo far away from the comparos of drivers you started it with but I like to spread the conversation some for its so night and day to today.
Obviously times change as they did back then as well compared to the 60's.
The supports were great fun as we know. (nothing today)
The Sport Sedans got wilder and wilder and wow so cool.
One little one was this classic Triumph GT6 run by Graham Bland.
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-yv47...345585.jpg?c=2
My ol mans company he worked for was one of his sponsers.
One of the reasons why we attended many rounds at either Amaroo/Oran in turn the influence of the Tin Tops.
This thing went like a cut snake - I had a ride in this at 14yrs old around Oran, shat my pants but will never forget the sound,the fumes and near on scrapping by BP Bend.

These visits obviously got us in the pits and one time the ol bloke was talking to someone at the Coke Tent upon Moff coming back from a win.
Pits obviously was on the grass, being next to that Mustang, ticking away cooling down, feeling the rocks stuck to his cooked tyres and smelling inside the cockpit I was on drugs !
I'm sure many would have their experiences to add.

On topic,
Had to earn a crust, beg steal borrow to compete.

[minheim]

Yes the old series production cars and drivers were great to watch as they muscled their cars around and nursed them as best they could. What was really great about those days were individual dealers being involved along with the three local manufacturers.

[roKWiz]

Anyone remember the name of the driver who raced a mean looking Alfa Romeo sports sedan back in the early 80's. Sure it was red but was lacking any sponsor names.
Gricie in the Chickadee chicken Dunnydore was always entertaining around the same time.

[Peter B - CV8]

^^^ Tony Edmondson from memory