Aussie vs import

[paulie]

Ive read alot of comments on how people say.

"How can they justify that price?.... its just a falcon/commodore...?"
"There's better out there (bmw, audi etc) for that sort of $$$"

But id like to know how many of these "better" cars are holding up here.

I was called an idiot for spending the $$ i did on an over priced falcon (GT) when i bought it and told for a bit extra i could have got a better car by bmw etc.

But recently ive been looking around at audi and bmw etc i park next to and i must say.
what a pile of crap.

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle already.
and these are 2010 ish cars.....

They may be a more refined vehicle. But definitely not in the same league as the aussie cars for last-ability. They're not designed for our climate etc.
Sure they have been "tested" here. But they haven't followed it up.
Atleast ford and holden australia could see how their own were holding up (or not) and made adjustments to what they used etc.

Guess ill just have to buy a new aussie made car and store it away for a while til i need to "upgrade" my current ride.
As half the stuff coming in seems to be cheap nasty crap.

[Nikked]

Still had issue with Aussie cars...like:

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle

My ED, EL & AU suffered any of these.

[paulie]

At what age tho?

Im seeing cars less than 5yr old showing these signs.

[Trump]

Pointless thread is pointless...

[Vesper Martini]

Are you saying BMW's & Audi's are cheap nasty crap? that's a first.

Pictures please! of the circa 2010 Euros with faded paint & perished window rubbers

[paulie]

Check your local shop centre car park.
They're everywhere.

[GO FURTHER]

The first advice I give friends wanting to get a Euro such as BMW, Audi, Benz, and especially those thinking of buying an ex-lease "just-out-of-warranty" is....

You may be able to afford the car.... But can you afford the horrendous service, spare parts and repairs!

Falcons are cheap to repair in comparison.

My boss had a small Audi A3 .... Cost $3,000 for the 60,000Km service which inlcluded machining the rotors and brakes!

And good luck trying to afford a replacement auto transmission of $15,000 plus on BMW if it fails out of warranty.

BMW's, Audi's and Mercs are usually leased by professionals and businessmen that swap them over as soon as the lease / warranty is up so never have to worry about expensive out of warranty repairs.... Can you afford to do the same?

If you are an average working class family man .... Stick with your Ford and Holdens and be happy.

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

The first advice I give friends wanting to get a Euro such as BMW, Audi, Benz, and especially those thinking of buying an ex-lease "just-out-of-warranty" is....

You may be able to afford the car.... But can you afford the horrendous service, spare parts and repairs!

Falcons are cheap to repair in comparison.

My boss had a small Audi A3 .... Cost $3,000 for the 60,000Km service which inlcluded machining the rotors and brakes!

And good luck trying to afford a replacement auto transmission of $15,000 plus on BMW if it fails out of warranty.

BMW's, Audi's and Mercs are usually leased by professionals and businessmen that swap them over as soon as the lease / warranty is up so never have to worry about expensive out of warranty repairs.... Can you afford to do the same?

If you are an average working class family man .... Stick with your Ford and Holdens and be happy.

I can get a genuine 4cyl BMW 6 speed auto landed at my door for $940 or a 6cyl turbo 6 speed for $1160 in "used but excellent condition" off ebay. Just saying...

[ryanstev]

I had a 1999 Subaru Legacy, twin turbo, it was 17 years old when it got written off and I owned it for almost exactly 8 years.
In that time it:
1. Burst a couple water hoses, due to a plugged overflow pipe.
2. A couple oil leaks, included main seal.
Both of those happened in 2012, when it was 13 years old.

I think I washed the car 5 times since owning it, it never rusted, never had any peeling paint. The car lived outside for the last 8 years of its life.

Since then I bought a 2005 BA Mk2 (last year) it got written off after 6 months by someone rear ending me, so it was too soon to notice many faults, but it had:
1. No paint on the edges of the bonnet and boot closest to the windscreen and none on the front edge of the gas flap (WTF)
2. Rust developing on the driver's side corner of the boot, under the window
3. The terrible bonnet release, which was broken and the fusebox was broken too
4. The silver coating on the transmission stick and surround was peeled off and gone

I've now got a 2006 BF, it has:
1. Rust developing on the driver's side corner of the boot, under the window
2. Center hanging bearing completely let go
3. Window washer squirters are *crap*
4. Bubbling silver coating on the door armrests

I love the engine and that's the only reason I bought the BF, if I could buy a brand new one and get rid of it before it gets too old, I'd be happy with it.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by paulie

Check your local shop centre car park.
They're everywhere.

Yea I look at cars in the car parks, you right some of these car do like crap including the aussie made ones, your point!

Comes down to how well the owners look after their pride & joy.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by paulie

Check your local shop centre car park.
They're everywhere.

I don't see any circa 2010 BMW's with such issues, are you mistaken for 2000 models of which I see a few, but then you are comparing to AU Falcons....

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Are you saying BMW's & Audi's are cheap nasty crap? that's a first.

Pictures please! of the circa 2010 Euros with faded paint & perished window rubbers

Have a good look around.
My old XR5 Turbo had not perished rubber quality rubbers around the windows, my ST has it too. A mate that did some paint correction on my ST has a 2013 RS6 it has a similar type, i know my focus is high end but its euro, the RS6 on the other hand.

Im nit picking though re XR5/ST there hasnt been many quality issues with either of mine. But there are some that are full of problems, my mate owns one and i dunno how he hasnt set fire to it

[Sabantien]

Admittedly there's 2 years difference between my FG and my girl's A1, but cosmetically the Audi is crapping all over the Falcon. Still looks amazing, despite her treating it like rubbish.

[xisled]

I guess if I wanted to prove everyone wrong i would try and find defects and such in car parks. Would even take pictures to prove it. ROFL

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Still had issue with Aussie cars...like:

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle

My ED, EL & AU suffered any of these.

All cars had paint fade around the world around the time they started taking the lead out of the paint. Just like all air conditioners sucked when they switched from R12 to R134a.

[GTP534]

I had an FG FPV R-Spec and some of the detail on the FG was world class in my opinion. The door and window sealing is very well executed and there were no jagged or rough looking folds where the outer door panels met the inside skin. Miles ahead of the BA GTP I had.

Might be hard to picture but just open the door and rub your hand along the door edges.

My Mustang by comparison is rough-as in the same areas "under the skin" but having said that feels just as solid and better planted on the road. My vehicles are garaged but time will tell how the Mustang ages.

Ford Australia should be very proud of what they achieved, amazing really considering their budgets.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

The first advice I give friends wanting to get a Euro such as BMW, Audi, Benz, and especially those thinking of buying an ex-lease "just-out-of-warranty" is....

You may be able to afford the car.... But can you afford the horrendous service, spare parts and repairs!

Falcons are cheap to repair in comparison.

My boss had a small Audi A3 .... Cost $3,000 for the 60,000Km service which inlcluded machining the rotors and brakes!

And good luck trying to afford a replacement auto transmission of $15,000 plus on BMW if it fails out of warranty.

BMW's, Audi's and Mercs are usually leased by professionals and businessmen that swap them over as soon as the lease / warranty is up so never have to worry about expensive out of warranty repairs.... Can you afford to do the same?

If you are an average working class family man .... Stick with your Ford and Holdens and be happy.

I own an E38 7 series, to put costs into perspective, 8x ignition coils, 8x spark plugs, two CMPs and a new throttle body assembly was $2500.

New alternator was $2400 for the Bosch one or $1100 for aftermarket.

The power steering hoses were $600.

And a rear shock is over $1000 a pop.

Mind you, lower control arms with new bush and ball joint, only $90 each

It was a $175K car in 2001, about $100K more than an LTD at the time.

LTD is 90% of the car.

You don't know what you got until you lose it.

[Sox]

We have a few Falcons and an E36 Beemer.

The beemer has nearly 320k and has cost us bugger all.

Some parts are a little pricey, others are not much more than a Falcon.

It's easy to work on and has no more durability issues than my local stuff.

Exterior rubbers are looking a bit ratty, but it is a 96 model, to be expected.

[Wretched]

Having had a couple of local cars (BA/BF2) and an import, my experiences have shown that between the two both have positives and negatives.
One thing I have noticed though, the "built for Aussie conditions" is a load of bollocks.

The Falcons were reasonably well built but had quality niggles. The sealing was quite good around the doors but the interior was really poor and by the 2nd year of ownership for both there was severe cracking on the dash and the steering wheel was very badly worn. Parts wise, only the brakes on the Falcon were cheaper than my Focus, but then they were never anywhere near as good in feel or quality. The only thing the Focus is let down by is a poor air con, but the rest including interior fit and finish was far superior.

However in saying that, my partner's Mazda 3 trumps them all for quality and cost to run. It is faultless.

[Spammy]

I have had Fiats, Alfas, BMWs, Range Rovers and Subarus...none of them had rust issues in the first 24 months like my Territory did.

The Territory build quailty felt like a step back in time of 20 years coming from a Subi.

[bingoTE50]

If I lived in Europe I would not hesitate to have a European Car . Mainly because of cost of parts and servicing . Quite frankly ,in Australia there seem to be the mindset in the Automotive industry to cash in on European Car Owners come repair time. As far as longevity goes , it depends on the owner in my book. Preventative maintenance is king , but costs . This includes bodywork not just mechanical. I see pristine Modern Cars and car shows, obviously well looked after , and crap examples in car parks . So a blanket statement is a big call. My 2005 Statesman is in very good nick , I wash it polish it, have all fluids changed regularly , use Bowdens UV protectant on the leather seats etc etc .

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Ford Australia should be very proud of what they achieved, amazing really considering their budgets.

^^^ This x 100

Exactly right.

I've mentioned it on here before, but when a work colleague who is a tragic for buying 10 year old Mercs questioned why I would buy an FG, when I could buy a nice (older) Merc for the same money.

I told him there's no way in hell I'd have an older Merc that could well have many issues and been offloaded because of that. He laughed & said "so you buy taxi instead"

German colleague overhearing this piped up "In my country, Mercedes Benz is Taxi" - absolutely shutting him down.

Ironically, 5-6 years on, he no longer has any Mercs - he's converted to Toyotas, after his last E-series developed an ABS fault that was quoted at $3500 to fix using wrecker parts (or over $9K from a dealer and a 3 months wait for new parts).

I've also got enough friends who run workshops or wreckers who deal in this on a daily basis, and big bills are quite common, especially after the warranty ends, and far more common than on Aussie or Asian cars. It's not every Euro thaty has an issue, but a higher proportion of them that cost owners dearly.

It's like playing lotto - some will have a faultless run, whilst others will have nothing but problems. The proportion of problems, and costs, seem to be much higher in older Euros. And some younger ones to - like $17K to rebuild a BMW-engined Mini that smashed it's timing chains & guides - out of warranty time-wise, but still ultra-low km, and serviced every 12 months (less than 3000km/yr).


Clever marketing over many years by the likes of BMW & Merc, importing only the mid & high luxury levels has created a false impression of the true "prestige" levels of these cars, and badge snobbery has driven it even further.

Those who grew up with them in Germany and other first-world Euro countries know full well the base models over there are just like our Commodores & Falcons - but they were never exported over here. If Ford only sold Fairmont Ghias & Fairlanes, where would the buying public see them?

And for those old enough to remember. Aussie cars had vinyl seats into the early 80s. Mercedes Benz called their vinyl "MB-Tex" - and got away with it for decades longer...... So tell me, why would you buy a "prestige" car with vinyl seats??

[.:4:.]

In the time from 2014 to 2015 when she sold it, mums 2001 ml320 cost $21,000 to keep on the road (she has money) so when they offered $3,500 trade or 5k with working central locking at a cost of $3,500, it took me some talking her out of it, but she took the 3 and a half.... only to buy another Mercedes. Hmmmmm.... even dad's jag has had less repairs, but a trip longer then to the shop and back puts the box in limp, so it's relegated to no further then the shop. His audi is nice though. I'm a taxi person also.. proven reliability

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Still had issue with Aussie cars...like:

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle

My ED, EL & AU suffered any of these.

Bought a grand new G6E at the start of 2011...driver seat mechanism quickly failed, driveshaft to diff seal leaked like a sieve, carpets were loose in some places, various other little noises and creaks and groans, cheap plastics in the interior...all from a "prestige" brand new fifty grand car. But hey, it was Aussie Aussie Aussie!!!!

European cars suffer from three fatal flaw in this country...predatory protectionist taxation on pricing, distance from source country, and because they are cars that, overseas, are just family cars and taxis but have to be sold here as "luxury prestige cars" and priced accordingly, the servicing is through the roof.

[GazzF6]

Nothing wrong with Euro cars other than the high price..
This thanks to import quotas ( Merc) + LCT + Import Tax.

This will change once local manufacture is gone, cheaper more realistic pricing will no doubt prevail.

[Swordie]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I own an E38 7 series

One of my favorite BMWs. Cool looking car.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by paulie

But recently ive been looking around at audi and bmw etc i park next to and i must say.
what a pile of crap.

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle already.
and these are 2010 ish cars.....

They may be a more refined vehicle. But definitely not in the same league as the aussie cars for last-ability. They're not designed for our climate etc.
Sure they have been "tested" here. But they haven't followed it up.
Atleast ford and holden australia could see how their own were holding up (or not) and made adjustments to what they used etc.

So you’re saying other countries don’t have harsh climates.

That’s total BS as there are many countries where Euros are popular sellers that have far more extreme temperatures than Australia.

Parts of Africa and the Middle East for starters aren't known for their moderate temperatures and I lived in New York for almost 50 years and owned mainly Mercs during my time there without issues even though they endured hot summers and freezing winters.

As far as maintenance goes these cars are no different to the local models.

You can take them to the dealerships out of warranty and be raped or you take them to an independent who will supply and fit aftermarket and often genuine parts for a fraction of the cost and they are easily affordable.

Many owners of older Euro models know you can source cheap parts locally and from around the world for these cars if you don’t want to fall into the dealership trap.

I’d also be interested to see photos of these 2010 cars that are perishing in our carparks where the local vehicles are not.

Not that I care as it’s this type of ignorance that keeps the second hand prices down for these cars so those in the know can enjoy them.

[XR Martin]

Got four Audi Q7s at work back in December.

So far issues include a bubble the size of a 20c piece on an arm rest, aircon stopped working in 40 degree heat, trim around the rear wheel arch is mis-aligned, trim on the end of the driver's seat rail keeps popping off.

[ebv8]

i love my fords but my brother just got an E39 BMW when he bought his house (it came with it), its a 1994 525i and its perfect, i can't fault it at all, compare it to an ED this thing is so.... much better.
I do think they new generation BMW's and Merc are built to a price rather than just being built well but this old 94 BMW is a great car

[Franco Cozzo]

ML500 in the workshop at the moment, no wipers, indicators, SRS system disabled, electric tailgate stuck open and lights stuck on.

Battery is located under driver seat:



Battery let go, covering module in acid.

That module acts like a router, recieves and sends CAN bus signals around the car.

There is two of these in the engine bay, one under the drivers seat next to the battery and one in the boot.

Over $2K each and more than one is faulty.