safety experts to call on authorities to look “beyond speed cameras” to reduce deaths.

csv8 · 23-01-2016, 12:31 PM

THE national road toll has gone up for the first time in three years, prompting safety experts to call on authorities to look “beyond speed cameras” to reduce deaths.

Official figures show the number of people killed on Australian roads last year rose by 4.9 per cent — with 1209 fatalities recorded — after previously posting 89-year lows.

Despite a record number of speed cameras, the road toll was the highest since 2012, when 1300 people died.

“We’ve got more cameras now than ever before and yet people still break the law,” said the CEO of the Australian Road Safety Foundation, Russell White.

“We need to look beyond speed cameras, they don’t detect bald tyres, drunk drivers, people not wearing seatbelts, and other poor driving behaviour.”
Time for change ... Russell White shows Jim Vingas the dangers of texting while driving. Picture: Mike Batterham

Mr White, who has been in “after-licence driver training” for 26 years and has taught thousands of drivers how to improve their safety behind the wheel, said “we won’t fix the road toll with enforcement alone”.

“It’s time for a shift in attitude,” said Mr White. “When it comes to learning how to drive a car, people get a basic preschool level of education and then authorities expect them to perform at university level on the road. You should never stop learning.”

He said it was a “miracle” the road toll was not higher than it is today.

“We see every day just how bad a lot of drivers are out there. It’s a miracle the road toll isn’t worse,” said Mr White. “The reason the road toll is not higher is because roads have improved and car safety has improved.”

Some states still do not require annual safety inspections on older cars.
crashed cars from Thinkstock

The data shows that while deaths of 18 to 25s dropped by three per cent, the number of fatalities across other age groups has risen in the past 12 months.

The biggest increase, however, is for deaths of those aged over 65 (up by 9.3 per cent) and over 75 (up by 16.3 per cent), prompting renewed calls for older driver retesting at a younger age and across all states and territories.

Currently, only some states require driver retesting at the age of 85.

“No-one wants to take away the driving privileges of older drivers, but we do need to address this as the population ages, as cognitive ability starts to deteriorate,” said Mr White.

This reporter is on Twitter: @JoshuaDowling

**GasoLane** · 23-01-2016, 01:02 PM

That's bordering on sensible, it'll never happen

Pedro · 23-01-2016, 01:13 PM

What! Teaching people how to drive properly and change Govco's thinking on "speed camers"? Gees - next it will be suggested that 1 km over doesn't kill people.

Terror_Tree · 23-01-2016, 01:22 PM

The biggest cause of deaths on the road is stupid people, just have a look at the dash cams Australia facebook page.

olfella · 23-01-2016, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

THE national road toll has gone up for the first time in three years, prompting safety experts to call on authorities to look “beyond speed cameras” to reduce deaths.

That is not a new argument as it has been going around ever since they were introduced. This has resulted in cameras being used as revenue raisers. They place them in locations that raise millions of dollars, yet implement no other speed calming measures at that location.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

“We need to look beyond speed cameras, they don’t detect bald tyres, drunk drivers, people not wearing seatbelts, and other poor driving behaviour.”

Again a no brainer. You cannot beat having a police visibility to raise awareness and enforcement - works on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

biggest increase, however, is for deaths of those aged over 65 (up by 9.3 per cent) and over 75 (up by 16.3 per cent), prompting renewed calls for older driver retesting at a younger age and across all states and territories.
Currently, only some states require driver retesting at the age of 85.

Oh, it is now us old bastards that are the problem. Well dont worry as at the rate described we will kill our selves off soon enough. Which raises the issue of statistics. How many were actually driving the vehicle? How many were passengers with a young person driving? Did they have a medical problem and carked it before the crash? How many medical episodes do younger drivers have? I agree with retesting and medicals, BUT it is not only the elderly!! I have seen lots of P drivers that, in my opinion are a lot worse. Statistics do not show how many end up in hospital all broken up either. How about including those figures and linking it to age?

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

No-one wants to take away the driving privileges of older drivers, but we do need to address this as the population ages, as cognitive ability starts to deteriorate,” said Mr White.

We addressed that above, and like I said, I dont think that is the (complete) answer. Any driver caught driving negligent, runs out of points etc should be made to do a retest because there is something amiss with them as well, and it is not being old.

**MercurySilver** · 23-01-2016, 04:09 PM

nstg8a · 23-01-2016, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olfella

That is not a new argument as it has been going around ever since they were introduced. This has resulted in cameras being used as revenue raisers. They place them in locations that raise millions of dollars, yet implement no other speed calming measures at that location.

Again a no brainer. You cannot beat having a police visibility to raise awareness and enforcement - works on me.

Oh, it is now us old bastards that are the problem. Well dont worry as at the rate described we will kill our selves off soon enough. Which raises the issue of statistics. How many were actually driving the vehicle? How many were passengers with a young person driving? Did they have a medical problem and carked it before the crash? How many medical episodes do younger drivers have? I agree with retesting and medicals, BUT it is not only the elderly!! I have seen lots of P drivers that, in my opinion are a lot worse. Statistics do not show how many end up in hospital all broken up either. How about including those figures and linking it to age?

We addressed that above, and like I said, I dont think that is the (complete) answer. Any driver caught driving negligent, runs out of points etc should be made to do a retest because there is something amiss with them as well, and it is not being old.

If the medical related problem that led to the crash was an age related illness then you're proving their point...

mik · 23-01-2016, 04:21 PM

Cameras are only a small deterrent in one driving action , they need more roving patrols pulling people up , giving them either an education , a warning or a fine , but theres not much profit in patrols , only in cameras , so ...... because politicians put money higher on the priority list , people continue to die.

RANGEREST · 23-01-2016, 05:02 PM

Oh C'mon, everyone knows speed cameras that send you a fine a week or so after your "offence" save lives.
I accidentally broke the speed limit on Wednesday, was about 5kph over and babies died everywhere
(Insert sarcasm emoji)

Mowdit · 23-01-2016, 07:37 PM

I would like to see the toll posted as a percentage of registered road users.
AKA, if there are 30,000 more uses than last year, then the number of deaths by percentage probably actually dropped !

No one ever says "how many road users there actually are?

Don't pick on the oldies, it isn't always an accident (that tree late at night on a straight road), and that goes right across all the age groups, some actions are deliberate, got depression, cancer, or broke, the family gets the life insurance because it's an accident, third party/TAC pays for a lot of expenses relating funeral even.

Be great to see REAL statistics on each accident, not "seasonally adjusted" stuff to suit their agenda.
Same as the camera "so called statistics", air bags, traction/stability control, modern design and electronics like automatic braking, lane keeping and blind spot alerts" have lowered the road toll by millions then.

Still no one mentions those survivors that didn't come out unscathed.
There are so many people trying to cope, manage and live with the injuries they have suffered.
Everyone should have to meet one of these people in person !

olfella · 23-01-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

If the medical related problem that led to the crash was an age related illness then you're proving their point...

Not really. If ever you get into Emergency Services you may find that a lot of single vehicle accidents and those that take a truck head on are in fact suicides. Is that not a medical problem that is not age related.

**GasoLane** · 23-01-2016, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olfella

you may find that a lot of single vehicle accidents and those that take a truck head on are in fact suicides.

Been there, done that.

SYZ · 23-01-2016, 11:27 PM

Let's say a speed camera picks up a bloke travelling at (say) 150km/h on the Peninsula Link just outside Mornington. He then continues to drive erratically at 140-160km/h all the way to Fitzroy, a distance of around 80km.

How exactly has the speed camera reduced the obvious dangers of his driving, or protected other drivers from death and/or serious injury? In actuality, the speed camera (sorry, "safety" camera) has not provided one single modicum of increased road safety. The only outcome is that it's raised an extra $758 for the government's coffers. And this is the singular reason that proves the ulterior motives of the government increasing the number of speed cameras in 2016. More money to prop up a failing state budget.

BENT_8 · 24-01-2016, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYZ

Let's say a speed camera picks up a bloke travelling at (say) 150km/h on the Peninsula Link just outside Mornington. He then continues to drive erratically at 140-160km/h all the way to Fitzroy, a distance of around 80km.

How exactly has the speed camera reduced the obvious dangers of his driving, or protected other drivers from death and/or serious injury? In actuality, the speed camera (sorry, "safety" camera) has not provided one single modicum of increased road safety. The only outcome is that it's raised an extra $758 for the government's coffers. And this is the singular reason that proves the ulterior motives of the government increasing the number of speed cameras in 2016. More money to prop up a failing state budget.

Because there was only 1 bloke doing that 140km/hr recklessly instead of every second car doing it.
You will never get 100% compliance, some people just dont care.
Old mate in the scenario above would have seen the warning signs, he just didnt care.

The question is, without speed/safety cameras, what would the road toll be...

Should we switch off all cameras and take a punt, if the toll rises sharply will it be evidence enough, are you happy for your loved ones to pay the price to be part of the test sample?

Rockape · 24-01-2016, 01:13 PM

Cameras haven't worked. Time to bin them all and go back to cops on the roads. No money in that so will never happen.

Pilko FNQ · 24-01-2016, 05:13 PM

Either way, one thing I have noticed is that you rarely see people driving at speed anymore. 80's and then when I started driving 1990 it was a different story IMO. I lived in Mt Isa and there were two cop cars with the old radar that hung off the rear ds window. Drive past the station and if they were parked up out the front you knew there was almost no chance of getting caught.

mitelsx2000 · 24-01-2016, 05:14 PM

The same thing has happened in NZ, record road toll last year after several years with the toll being less.

The speed camera has not worked, its a revenue Tool!!!!

The Aussie roads are world class compared to our 3rd world pot hole tracks in NZ.

In NZ once you reach 75 you need a medical test etc to carry on driving.

**Beastie** · 24-01-2016, 05:41 PM

I think we all agree that speed cameras 'don't save lives' but what is the solution to the problem???

It would be interesting to know how, when and where the fatalities happened?

1. Intersections
2. Freeways
3. Open country roads
4. Holiday seasons
5. Stolen car
6. Police pursuits
7. Age / experience
8. Drinking / drugs

Other than putting a speed camera on every intersection or putting speed limiters in ever car, the reasons for the road toll will just continue to be a debate for ever.

Like others have said, some people just don't care and no matter what the 'deterrents' are, they will simply be ignored by some and unfortunately it's not always them that end up as a statistic. It's the innocent driver that is doing the right thing.

Me personally, I would like to see more patrol cars on the road, both marked and unmarked.

I drive a van most days and being higher up, I see so many people using their phones on their lap it drives me mad! Not just P platers either.

Sadly there will always be fatalities, but speed cameras are not the answer unless there are thousands of them!

joolz · 24-01-2016, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Because there was only 1 bloke doing that 140km/hr recklessly instead of every second car doing it.
You will never get 100% compliance, some people just dont care.
Old mate in the scenario above would have seen the warning signs, he just didnt care.

The question is, without speed/safety cameras, what would the road toll be...

Should we switch off all cameras and take a punt, if the toll rises sharply will it be evidence enough, are you happy for your loved ones to pay the price to be part of the test sample?

The road toll would likely be the same but the revenue would drop substantially. With thousands of drivers now detected for speeding the only difference is the revenue. There will still be the chance of a radar sitting behind those bushes...

SYZ · 24-01-2016, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Because there was only 1 bloke doing that 140km/hr recklessly instead of every second car doing it.

Nope... it could be 3 or 4 blokes, or a dozen breaking the speed limit. My example was only a hypothetical.

Quote:

The question is, without speed/safety cameras, what would the road toll be...

Based on the probabilities of my hypothetical, probably exactly the same. And how can you realistically claim my hoon driver won't kill anybody simply because he's been pinged by a speed camera along the freeway—but not intercepted and stopped? You can't. And yet you're saying cameras save lives.

BENT_8 · 24-01-2016, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYZ

Nope... it could be 3 or 4 blokes, or a dozen breaking the speed limit. My example was only a hypothetical.

Out of how many on the highway?
Sure, there may be 3 or 4, maybe more, like i said, you'll never get 100% compliance even if there was a cop on every street.
Remove the cameras and every driver can feel free to push the envelope

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYZ

Based on the probabilities of my hypothetical, probably exactly the same. And how can you realistically claim my hoon driver won't kill anybody simply because he's been pinged by a speed camera along the freeway—but not intercepted and stopped? You can't. And yet you're saying cameras save lives.

You're missing the point, the camera's arent there to stop old mate in your scenario, they are there to deter the other 1000's of drivers that may decide to drive like old mate without the fear of camera's.

I never said speed camera's save lives and the only way to prove they dont is to switch them off.
Like i said, are you willing to bet the lives of your closest that they wont become a statistic?

Is it really that hard to fathom.

csv8 · 24-01-2016, 11:54 PM

Bristol turns off cameras road toll drops 25%
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Number-ac...ail/story.html

Rockape · 25-01-2016, 01:03 AM

Looking at the road not the speedo????

LTDHO · 25-01-2016, 05:55 AM

So they are looking at other alternatives to make money?

Surely they are not considering putting money back into the community by way of education?

Makovic · 25-01-2016, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitelsx2000

The Aussie roads are world class compared to our 3rd world pot hole tracks in NZ.

Seen the Hume Highway?

No wonder the dual cabs fourbees took off here.

new2ford · 25-01-2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Bristol turns off cameras road toll drops 25%
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Number-ac...ail/story.html

Note in the article how the usual suspects come out of the woodwork and demand the cameras be put back regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Here's another good UK piece:

http://citytransport.info/Frame.htm

(click on the "speed" link on the blue line at the right and then follow the next link)

bangm001 · 25-01-2016, 09:58 AM

As with one of the above posts, with more and more people using dash cams, there is some absolutely moronic behaviour that I have seen lately!! Some of these people should have their cars and licences taken from Waaay before someone chirping their tyres or getting caught a few times just over the speed limit.

**DJM83** · 25-01-2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockape

Cameras haven't worked. Time to bin them all and go back to cops on the roads. No money in that so will never happen.

Dont usually contribute to these threads. But i couldnt agree more. A highly visible HWP car is going to be more of a deterrent to me than a then a little moron hiding behind a safety camera in a bush.

BENT_8 · 25-01-2016, 11:09 AM

So we switch off the camera's and replace them with an active police presence.
This will magically slow everyone down moreso than the camera thus creating a safer environment and less fines.

Now, who pays all the extra wages when the revenue falls?.

Oh, they'll increase another tax, one that we can all share the burden of.
So instead of a % of the population making voluntary contributions, we all pay for their antics.

Great work, pay up.

damo76 · 25-01-2016, 11:26 AM

I was traveling on the kwinana fwy 2 nights ago up near burns beach road, I was doing 117kmh on my motorbike when i was slowly approaching a commodore, eventually i got close to it and realized there were 2 led lights in the back but instead of backing off I continued to do 115kmh in 100km zone.
The cop car was speeding doing 15km over and in the inside lane, i moved to the left lane and went beside them and they didn't give a *****.
Anyway they turned off the fwy as did I and they continued to exceed the speed limit by 10km to 20kmh without any lights or sirens so ***** it i did the same lol.