fish that has an ammonia taste to it ???

[mik]

As the title reads, i bought the family a feed of fish and chips tonight and the flake tasted like it had ammonia in it, well mine did , any one that has used ammonia would never forget it........ it didn't actually taste like full on raw detergent type ammonia out of the bottle, but it for sure had that ammonia taste to it, nasty enough to throw the fish out very hastily, i`d already eaten half the fish before the after taste hit me(hopefully i wont kark it just yet o0).

i did ring the shop and let them know straight away, they immediately cooked up some fish and said the fish that came out of the particular box that mine came from had a weird taste to it(they know me) and where very apologetic, and would ring the company that supplies them with fish.
I know these people and their stuff is always been good and they have been there for probably at least ten years maybe longer.

The rest of the family chucked theirs out just in case without even trying it, so can any of the wise ford forumers got any ideas about this? i might add all the other food was great, is this just a case of a bad fish or is it from a refrigeration problem or something else??

[tex]

Flake (particularly tropical shark species sold as flake) must be bled thoroughly at capture to prevent the flash from tainting with ammonia.

Proper cold water flake, as in gummy and school shark is mainly caught on long lines. Hook caught fish on these long lines are generally bled prior to death, ensuring a thorough bleed. The tails are cut off, and an incision made behind the gill slits. Blood is pumped from the still live fish by its heart. Gill net fishing for school and gummy shark does take place, but net shots (duration of net set time) are short to ensure captures are removed alive.

Flake is a generic term for shark, and unfortunately, some shark tastes like crap.

Tropical caught shark (usually black /white tip reef shark, various whaler species, even Tigre sharks!!!) are more often caught in large mesh gill nets, and usually brought aboard dead due to long shots and an increased mortality due to water temperature and predation. Thorough bleeding is not possible with a dead carcass. plus, all the tropical species taste inferior to true flake. Remember, proper flake is temperate water gummy and school shark only. I suspect that is NOT what you we served.

For the last few years Australia has also been used as a dumping ground for foreign caught tropical species, shark meat included. Shark fishing both legal and illegal takes place in Northern Australian waters, and misleading (illegal) branding and marketing of these species is still quite widespread, despite a real effort by the seafood industry to clean up its act. There is strict legislation in place to prevent mis leading naming and species substitution of seafood, however, due to the complexity associated with identification of most white flesh seafood species, foul play still goes on.

protein finger printing is often the only definitive way a fillet so fish can be identified without doubt.

Even proper flake if taken dead will have an ammonia taste remain after processing due to lack of proper bleed procees. Freezing of processed product will reduce the taste, but not eliminate it. Temperature control, or rather lack of, will hugely influence the strength of the ammonia taste in poorly bled product. Product handled, transported and stored outside of proper cold chain will inevitably result in a inferior tasting fish. And a strong taste of ammonia!

You're unlikely to become sick from eating ammonia tasting flake.... just put off from eating crap fish from the local grease shop.

How do I know about ammonia in flake? because I have been involved in the fishing industry for over 20 years, and caught shark commercially for a living back in the early 90s.

Only suggestion I can give is try to ensure the flake you buy is either gummy or school shark. And I'd buy it from a real fish shop, not a grease bar.

[lowfly]

If you have fresh fillets, dunk them in milk before cooking and that normally takes away the ammonia smell and taste. We do it with small tiger sharks even if they are bled properly. I find that bronze whaler is one of the best with no ammonia taste when bled right. Have had a few reefies and they were no good.

[Legit290]

Top answer tex

[mik]

Great explanation thanks Tex and thanks lowfly, i eat a fair bit of fish but this is the first time i`ve come across this ammonia thing, i`m a little bit wiser.
cheers guys.

[Crazy Dazz]

Yep, great answer from Tex, nice to have someone that actually knows something.
Mammals get rid of their nitrates by creating urea which is purged by the kidneys. But as I understand it, most fish produce straight ammonia. Maybe they get rid of it via their gills?

It’s funny, in WA “gummy” is a premium product, then there’s “snappa” which is almost any other kind of shark, and lastly there is the stuff they actually call “shark” which just seems to be the dodgy bits.

And yeah, it’s annoying to be surrounded by some of the best seafood in the world, and mostly get fed imported crud from Egypt & Thailand.

[TheSneakiness]

My father in law is a commercial fisherman and he's fed us before on a visit bull shark and goddamn if that was not the best tasting flake I've ever had. Just a fresh clean eat with no ammonia taste.

[mik]

I`m pretty keen on the fish myself rapid, usually i get it down near the bay in williamstown, a couple of good fisho`s down there, and you can sit over looking the bay while scoffing down the tucker, bloody magnificent !
I weakened and got it near home which is usually good, it`s left a bad taste in my mouth (pun intended) let me tell you.

[snowcone]

If we are eating all the crap shark and imported nile perch, who the hell is getting the ggod stuff that gets caught in our waters.
If Asia is importing (read dumping) their crap to us then it wouldn't seem feasible that the good stuff is going there, and the US has plenty of it's own waters, so where is the good stuff?

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

Originally Posted by snowcone

If we are eating all the crap shark and imported nile perch, who the hell is getting the ggod stuff that gets caught in our waters.
If Asia is importing (read dumping) their crap to us then it wouldn't seem feasible that the good stuff is going there, and the US has plenty of it's own waters, so where is the good stuff?

Try any co-op on the coastal waters. most buy fresh from commercial fishos in the area. best ive had was at Greenwell point. nsw. saw the boat come in and unload to it. went in at lunch and had a feed that was the most.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Kevxr8Leexr6

Try any co-op on the coastal waters. most buy fresh from commercial fishos in the area. best ive had was at Greenwell point. nsw. saw the boat come in and unload to it. went in at lunch and had a feed that was the most.

You bought Flake in NSW?? I thought it was banned here.

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

blue marauder , bassa, think are what is sold here. but in general any fish can be bought at co=ops

[Charliewool]

A shark that's struggled a lot, either on a line or in a net is a prime candidate for ammonia taste... I was led to believe the struggle builds up lactic acid in their muscles which converts to ammonia?
As for the best flake..
Years ago, scuba diving out off Fisherman's beach Torquay, we shot a 1.5 metre Wobbegong . To this day, I swear it's the best eating salt water fish I've ever had. Even rank it ahead of Coral Trout.

[Franco Cozzo]

So pretty much the crap you get at your local fish and chip shop, advertised as "flake" probably isn't the good one?

[ebxr8240]

The freshness of the fish matters heaps..

[Daveg00]

Yeah well we did the good Friday thing and bought some blue grenadier from Coles from tunstall and was looking forward to a big feed of fish and chips, but it smelt and tasted of bleach ammonia, ie crap , was lucky to not get sick. Don't know why I ate it.

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yep, great answer from Tex, nice to have someone that actually knows something.
Mammals get rid of their nitrates by creating urea which is purged by the kidneys. But as I understand it, most fish produce straight ammonia. Maybe they get rid of it via their gills?

It’s funny, in WA “gummy” is a premium product, then there’s “snappa” which is almost any other kind of shark, and lastly there is the stuff they actually call “shark” which just seems to be the dodgy bits.

And yeah, it’s annoying to be surrounded by some of the best seafood in the world, and mostly get fed imported crud from Egypt & Thailand.

You said it, if you want great seafood in Aus, CATCH IT

[SYZ]

Thanks muchly Tex for your detailed info.

@ Daveg00:

Yeah well we did the good Friday thing and bought some blue grenadier from Coles...

Don't do it mate. Last place on earth to buy allegedly fresh fish. If it's not local stuff that's been in the freezer for 3 months, it was probably swimming in the Mekong Delta last week.

[aussiblue]

Shark for eating is from juvenile whiskery, gummy or dusky whalers. Oversize or adult sharks will taste of ammonia. Certain species will always taste of ammonia (i.e. great whites).

[sprintman1]

Ask if it's basa. If yes don't walk, run away!

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

Ask if it's basa. If yes don't walk, run away!

To quote Momma from 'The Waterboy', basa is the devil!!!!!!

[katefactor]

Yep its Catfish from Asia, mostly from the Mekong in Vietnam. Watched a pretty interesting doco on the farming process a while back, Catfish are great for cleaning up Human waste.

You should check out the process of making crab sticks, done at sea from rendering down all the waste fish and bones into a liquid then using that to make them, yum yum.


We need better labelling in Aust with regard to seafood, as an example I bought some labeled Carpentaria Australian Prawns last year thinking they were 100% local. Well they are sort of caught here but then shelled and deveined in China. It was clearly printed in microscopic size on the back of the bottom vacuum sealed edge of the bag. WTF, how do we know we are getting the same prawns back and where are they doing it exactly.

Another one that might shock you is Tassie scallops, some of those go to china for processing too, straight there from the processor here and straight back

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by katefactor

We need better labelling in Aust with regard to seafood, as an example I bought some labeled Carpentaria Australian Prawns last year thinking they were 100% local. Well they are sort of caught here but then shelled and deveined in China. [...]

Yep, I discovered exactly the same thing with some prepacked, frozen AUSTRALIAN prawns I bought at Woolworths. Processed and packed in Thailand! I totally agree with you about our slack Aussie labelling laws; they're a joke.

Another funny(?) one is salted cashews "Made in Australia" from "local and imported" ingredients. The cashews are imported form China, and the salt and the cellophane bag, and the packaging processes are Australian—which allows the made in Australia claim apparently. Which is ludicrous and needs changing urgently.

[katefactor]

And how many times do you see on the packet "packed for xxx" with an Aussie address, what it doesn't say is where it is packed for them.

I wear mild reading glasses and if I don't carry them to the supermarket I can't read any of the product info because its too small. There should be a dirty great big logo on the front for 100% product of Australia and some sort of scale for what is local product, its just deception.
Remember back when they started the campaign on Made in Aust. and Product of Aust. what a joke how confusing for the general public and worse if you are in the older generation.

They need to Put Dick Smith in charge of labelling standards

[razbarb]

There's some great info and advice. If you can catch it yourself, even some of the less popular fish are good on the table.
My two cents for "flake". Next time you catch a banjo shark, take the tail. As Tex mentioned, you need to bleed it while the heart is pumping. It's as good as flake for me!

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by tex

Flake (particularly tropical shark species sold as flake) must be bled thoroughly at capture to prevent the flash from tainting with ammonia.

Proper cold water flake, as in gummy and school shark is mainly caught on long lines. Hook caught fish on these long lines are generally bled prior to death, ensuring a thorough bleed. The tails are cut off, and an incision made behind the gill slits. Blood is pumped from the still live fish by its heart. Gill net fishing for school and gummy shark does take place, but net shots (duration of net set time) are short to ensure captures are removed alive.

Flake is a generic term for shark, and unfortunately, some shark tastes like crap.

Tropical caught shark (usually black /white tip reef shark, various whaler species, even Tigre sharks!!!) are more often caught in large mesh gill nets, and usually brought aboard dead due to long shots and an increased mortality due to water temperature and predation. Thorough bleeding is not possible with a dead carcass. plus, all the tropical species taste inferior to true flake. Remember, proper flake is temperate water gummy and school shark only. I suspect that is NOT what you we served.

For the last few years Australia has also been used as a dumping ground for foreign caught tropical species, shark meat included. Shark fishing both legal and illegal takes place in Northern Australian waters, and misleading (illegal) branding and marketing of these species is still quite widespread, despite a real effort by the seafood industry to clean up its act. There is strict legislation in place to prevent mis leading naming and species substitution of seafood, however, due to the complexity associated with identification of most white flesh seafood species, foul play still goes on.

protein finger printing is often the only definitive way a fillet so fish can be identified without doubt.

Even proper flake if taken dead will have an ammonia taste remain after processing due to lack of proper bleed procees. Freezing of processed product will reduce the taste, but not eliminate it. Temperature control, or rather lack of, will hugely influence the strength of the ammonia taste in poorly bled product. Product handled, transported and stored outside of proper cold chain will inevitably result in a inferior tasting fish. And a strong taste of ammonia!

You're unlikely to become sick from eating ammonia tasting flake.... just put off from eating crap fish from the local grease shop.

How do I know about ammonia in flake? because I have been involved in the fishing industry for over 20 years, and caught shark commercially for a living back in the early 90s.

Only suggestion I can give is try to ensure the flake you buy is either gummy or school shark. And I'd buy it from a real fish shop, not a grease bar.

Wow, now that is a detailed and knowledgable reply to that enquiry, lol. Pity nobody here knows that much about cars to give such concise replies to car queries, lol. :-)

[SYZ]

I also note that the "King Oscar" seafood varieties—sardines, herring, tuna etc are now produced by a company in Thailand who bought out the brand. And the "old" sardines which were a product of Norway are now a product of Poland—although still wearing poor old Oscar's likeness.

John West is also owned by the same Thai company, and I see that most of their small canned seafood products originate in Thailand rather than Scotland as they used to. It's obvious that we have to read the fine print even more diligently these days. Even if it is in a 2-point font LOL.

[poppa smurf]

Hmm! great read with some excellent replies.....well done, I won't be looking at my fish and chips the same anymore.

[Stefan]

WOW, we must be the dumbest country in the world, great seafood at our doorstep, but most of the stuff we can readily buy comes from some other third world country.

Really annoying....

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by Stefan

WOW, we must be the dumbest country in the world, great seafood at our doorstep, but most of the stuff we can readily buy comes from some other third world country.

Really annoying....

Yeah, I agree in spades. The longest continuous ocean coastline of any country in the world, and we buy half our "fresh" fish from Thailand and Vietnam. And export the other half or make the peasants pay through the nose for it.

At Christmas last year, Southern Rock lobster was selling here for around $85 per kilogram. One South Australian lobster exporter said he was running at almost 100 per cent export, with local sales becoming impossible. Live exports to China, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and Japan were pushing peak prices to $125 per kilogram!!!

And more than half the Barramundi consumed here comes from Asia and is often sold without any labelling showing it's imported. The Aussie fishing industry believes consumers are being duped and wants new legislation that would force restaurants and fish and chip shops to reveal the source of the Barramundi they sell. The president of the Australian Barramundi Farmers Association Marty Phillips said Australia imported 10,000 tonnes of barramundi a year (as frozen fillets from Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines and Indonesia) compared with 5000 tonnes coming from local aquaculture and 2000 tonnes of wild catch from Northern Australia.