Opinions on speeding fine.

[naddis01]

Ok guys I am going to preface this by saying that if I am in the wrong then it is only fair to pay the fine.

A couple of weeks ago we were heading to Adelaide along the Sturt Hwy. In the victorian section I got pulled up for speeding in an 80 zone with an alleged speed of 89 (detected speed 91). At the time I thought nothing of it and just accepted it and just assumed I missed the sign. I remember seeing an 80 ahead sign but not the actual 80 sign.

Anyway the next day (it was a quick trip) we were heading back through the same spot and had a bit of a joke about where we were pulled up, but then I had a closer look.

Try and keep track of the distances.

Where I was pulled up we could see an 80 sign probably 20-30m ahead of us. Like I said I just assumed there was a sign further back up the road that I missed. Which there was but there was only around 100m between the two 80 signs (I stepped it out).

Now as I was originally coming up to the 80 zone I saw an 80 ahead sign and started to slow which can be sign by my detected speed (the Sturt is a 110 zone). Then I come around a corner and see the police car on the side of the road. It seemed like straight after I saw him he was out of the car and pointing for me to pull over. He would have been about 100m ahead of me. As I drove past him I thought that it was odd but pulled over probably 50m past him. He got in his car, turned around and drove up to me at which point he issued the fine.

So if you have been following the distances I am not sure I was actually in an 80 zone when he was out of his car directing me to stop. I assume that I must have been if he was sitting on the side of the road waiting but the distances just don't seem to add up to me. I know he was ahead of me when he directed me to stop and I know the second 80 sign was ahead of me by the time I stopped.

So basically should I just pay the fine and move on? The only other options I see are to write a letter to ask for an offical warning, which involves admitting guilt or write a letter asking for an internal review however I can't see how I can prove that I may not have been in the 80 zone. I don't see taking it to court as an option as I assume I would have to travel to Victoria to contest it.

Anyway should I just pay it? Its only $153 but its the principle of the matter if I wasn't speeding. I have only ever had 1 other speeding fine since I got my licence in 1998.

[Geez Louise]

I am not sure what the actual distance is between an 80ahead sign and the actual 80 area.

Did you lose any demerits?

[naddis01]

Sorry, I don't think I explained it well.

There were two 80 speed zone signs which were about 100m apart. When I came to a stop the second one was still about 20-30m ahead of me. So where I stopped was only about 70-80m into the 80 zone. I guess I didn't see the first one because I was looking at the police car.

I would only be guessing but the 80 ahead sign would have been around 1km before the 80 zone. It was back around a corner.

I will only lose 1 demerit point.

[Geez Louise]

I am not too sure how the law works on this one but my understanding was, you have - up to - the sign to reach the speed limit of the sign.

As for your question, personally I would just pay the fine.

[gcg2503]

Have you had any other infringments in the last three years?

[naddis01]

The only other speeding fine I have had was in June 2008 (<15km/h over the speed limit back then). The only other fine I have had was for not displaying P plates which would have been back in 1999.

[geckoGT]

So let's see if I understand this, you passed one 80 limit sign and were then pulled up 20-30m before the second? If you went past 1 80 limit sign you were in an 80 zone and therefore speeding. If the first sign was a 80 ahead sign and you were pulled up 20-30m in front if the limit sign, you were not in an 80 zone.

[naddis01]

I went past 80 ahead sign and started slowing. Went around a corner and saw cop car probably 100m ahead with policeman indicating to stop but didn't see first sign. Drove probably 50m past police car and stopped with the second sign about 20-30m ahead.

[nstg8a]

i think i see what the op is meaning, hes stopped 20-30 metres before the 2nd sign, meaning the copper has most likely detected his speed before the first sign, ie still the 110 zone.

was it incar radar, or a laser gun? laser must be held on your car for a minimum 3 seconds for an accurate reading. 3 seconds travelling at circa 90kmh would easily place you outside the 80 zone when he started to laser you.

good luck proving anything in court though, if its just one point id not worry about it and pay it.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I went past 80 ahead sign and started slowing. Went around a corner and saw cop car probably 100m ahead with policeman indicating to stop but didn't see first sign. Drove probably 50m past police car and stopped with the second sign about 20-30m ahead.

Still not clear, when you went back to tge scene, was there a 80 km/h limit sign that you had gone past before the sign you were stopped 20-30m before?

[XR6Runner]

From my understanding, you where pulled over in-between the 80-ahead sign and the actual 80 sign. If you are 100% sure of this, definitely contest it.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

From my understanding, you where pulled over in-between the 80-ahead sign and the actual 80 sign. If you are 100% sure of this, definitely contest it.

i think we need pics or a diagram lol.

i think he stopped between the 80 ahead and the second 80 sign... everything hinges on where the first 80 sign is, and where the copper signalled him to pull over.

[bigsta]

Mate if you have a spare day to go to court I would fight it.

Might be worthwhile to try and get hold of the guidelines of where the speed traps are spose to be, to me that seems very wrong catching you just past an 80 sign.

I got done once years ago by this fat ginger copper who obvs got beat up every day of his school life and now he was taking his vengeance by being a hwy patrol officer anyway clocked me for doing 67 less than 30 or so meters into a 60 zone stepped out in front of my car and only just was able to stop for him too, i wonder if it would be my fault if i hit him.

I was working 7 days a week back than so I just paid it.

If you go to court and dont win sometimes they hit you up for court costs which is usually around $500

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bigsta

Might be worthwhile to try and get hold of the guidelines of where the speed traps are spose to be, to me that seems very wrong catching you just past an 80 sign.

They been doing it in Vic for a very long time.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

i think he stopped between the 80 ahead and the second 80 sign... everything hinges on where the first 80 sign is, and where the copper signalled him to pull over.

my understanding is the same as yours. naddis is aware that he is in an 80 zone, but given the speed and distances, he's not sure whether the cop has pinged him before or after the 1st 80 sign.

at the end of the day, it will be your word against the cop so chances are it will be a lot of time and effort for little reward.

i understand its the principle but is it really worth it? to me it sounds harsh as to his position but thats the way it is these days. they try to trap you any way they can.

once upon a time i used to just cancel the cruise at the '80 ahead' sign and just coast down to the new limit but these days i use the brake pedal. coppers in the small country towns don't have much else to do

[Tha Jack]

So you got pulled over in the 80km ahead area but just before the actual 80km sign.
If thats the case I'd take some pics and go to court.

[Kryton]

You cant be pinged within 100m of a change of speed sign.
That is in thier own guidelines.
If you were infact between the 2 80kmh signs, you shouldnt have been done.

[2011G6E]

Can't be done within 100 meters of a change of speed zone sign? Sure you can't...

There's a sign like that on the Bruce Highway as you approach Marmor, and another as you come up to the Calliope road crossing...they first warn you of a change of speed zone ahead, and then the sign itself for the zone is further on. I've heard a few cases of people getting pulled up before a speed zone sign as the copper didn't believe you could have slowed down to that speed by the time you reached the sign.

It's always been a big money earner to sit just past a speed sign at which the limit goes up...say leaving a town and the 100 sign is ahead...as some nupties actually believe stuff like "as long as the sign is in readable range you can start speeding up", and stuff like that...

[FGII-XR6]

if you were stoped 30 M before the second 80 sign and they were 100M apart it means you would have gone from 91 to 0 in 70 M including reaction time. It looks like a revenue trap to me, hoping you'll just pay and shut up. These type of fines need to be fought to show them we won’t put up with a stealth tax

[SIMBAD]

I got robber once.. 230 or 330 and 3 points for driving threw a yellow light that only change yellow for like 2 seconds.. Naturally if I attempted to stop or would of been uncomfortable and objects on the back seat would of went flying! Get this the unmarked car behind me still went threw and there was another car next to me slightly behind me went threw aswell..
Cop went crook at me saying I could of caused an accident yet he was still able to follow me threw aswell!
Either was I tried and I wrote a letter about it.. Didn't get off. I thought it was a bloody hefty fine and plus 3 points was bloody outrageous for what it was... Speeding fines /' demerit points aren't as harsh as that!

[GS608]

Originally Posted by fpvgtp255

I got robber once.. 230 or 330 and 3 points for driving threw a yellow light that only change yellow for like 2 seconds.. Naturally if I attempted to stop or would of been uncomfortable and objects on the back seat would of went flying! Get this the unmarked car behind me still went threw and there was another car next to me slightly behind me went threw aswell..
Cop went crook at me saying I could of caused an accident yet he was still able to follow me threw aswell!
Either was I tried and I wrote a letter about it.. Didn't get off. I thought it was a bloody hefty fine and plus 3 points was bloody outrageous for what it was... Speeding fines /' demerit points aren't as harsh as that!

Should have slammed on the brakes and watch the copper rear end you. Would have been hard for him to explain. Probably would have pinged you for dangerous driving though.

[SIMBAD]

^^^^ Lol, I couldn't do that to my baby! He was unmarked, I was none the wiser. I just knew there was someone up my **** at the time.

[gtxb67]

the problem is, you would need proof - if you are sure you were pinged in the 110kph area and their radar (or whatever they used to detect the speed) has a gps and therefore it can be proven where they were reading your speed, contest it
if you do not have any proof or they pinged you in the correct spot, then it might cost much more than it is worth

[Brazen]

You have 300m after you pass the speed limit sign to slow down.

E.g.

If you are in a 100 zone and enter a 80 zone you have 300m AFTER you pass the 80 sign to slow down to 80.

Take it to court, open and shut case.

AS 2898.1 – 2003 Radar speed detection – Functional requirements and definitions
AS2898.2 – 2003 Radar speed detection – Operational procedures
AS4691.1 – 2003 Laser-based speed detection devices – Definitions and device requirements
AS4691.2 – 2003 Laser-based speed detection devices – Operational procedures

Pretty well known standards especially by the police which makes me wonder if this was a trap on purpose and simply hoping you cop it on the chin like every motorist before you. As an aside you also have 100m BEFORE an increase in the speed limit sign to increase your speed, lose count of how many bozos you see wait until they actually reach the sign before speeding up.

[Landau Stable]

When you went back, did you actually see far behind the first 80 zone sign the copper was? Was he 10 metres behind it? 20? could you prove it with a picture? Reason i say is, doesn't there have to be a certain space for you to be pinged? Meaning that his radar catches you from a distance of say 100 metres away from him? I'd find out how far away from the radar you need to be in order to be detected, and then backtrack from there. If you can prove it, write a letter accordingly and mention that you will strongly consider court action and highlighting it with the media. If it fails? then your call from there if you fight it or pay it.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if you do not have any proof or they pinged you in the correct spot, then it might cost much more than it is worth

He has proof, he got the ticket, and he knows where he was pinged. He doesnt need any more proof than that.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Brazen

He has proof, he got the ticket, and he knows where he was pinged. He doesnt need any more proof than that.

The ticket doesn't provide exact co-ordinates of where the 'alleged' offence occurred. If it were to say John St, that could indicate a position either side of the 80 zone. I'd suggest the court in that case would likely side with the cop.

What is actually on the ticket?

Is their sufficient information about the location to prove that you were pinged between the two signs? (like a crossroad...)

IMO, you certainly have grounds to contest it provided there's enough proof to pinpoint your location of where the ticket was given.

[Matty4]

My take on it is this;
You were pinged between the 80 ahead sign and the actual 80 zone sign, correct? You then pulled over within the 80 zone and issued the fine. The point here is that between the 80 ahead and the 80 zone it is still a 110 zone.

I'd be contesting it too!!
Also, a couple of points need clearing up. Court costs are nowhere near $500, they are closer to $50. You don't have 300m after a speed change to slow down, you must be doing the posted speed as you pass the sign.

Lastly, get something like this in your car. For less than the cost of 1 fine it will prove exactly where you were on the road...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Matty4

My take on it is this;
You were pinged between the 80 ahead sign and the actual 80 zone sign, correct? You then pulled over within the 80 zone and issued the fine. The point here is that between the 80 ahead and the 80 zone it is still a 110 zone.

I'd be contesting it too!!
Also, a couple of points need clearing up. Court costs are nowhere near $500, they are closer to $50. You don't have 300m after a speed change to slow down, you must be doing the posted speed as you pass the sign.

Lastly, get something like this in your car. For less than the cost of 1 fine it will prove exactly where you were on the road...
image

You cannot be issued a ticket for travelling at the speed you were at before the sign for a distance 300m. End of story.

That is why we put the speed limit signs so far out of towns, why roadworkers put roadwork limits 300m before the roadworks etc. You are given 300m to do that speed. In respect to speed enforcement the 80 sign is saying '80kmh zone 300m ahead'.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by Brazen

You cannot be issued a ticket for travelling at the speed you were at before the sign for a distance 300m. End of story.

That is why we put the speed limit signs so far out of towns, why roadworkers put roadwork limits 300m before the roadworks etc. You are given 300m to do that speed. In respect to speed enforecement the 80 sign is saying '80kmh zone 300m ahead'.

Good luck trying that argument in court..
"But...Your Honour...yes I was in an 80 zone but I'm still allowed to do 100 in an 80 zone for the first 300 metres of that zone..."