Has the I6 got anything left?

Road_Warrior · 08-06-2009, 10:34 AM

Reading about the coming Direct Injection update for the Commodore (3.0L at first, who knows for the 3.6) of course made me think about the Falcon's trusty I6. If the Commodore gets a DI 3.6 litre V6 then the I6 will be out-powered (but not out-grunted) for the first time in years. Probably bring fuel economy improvements with it as well.

So where does that leave the I6? Not really knowing what Ford's long-term plan is for the engine (for argument's sake, let's just say it will be around until 2013) it could be anything, but I would imagine that any sort of investment in the engine of the level required to bring DI to the I6 would be out of the question I would have thought. It's an 'orphan' engine don't forget and Ford is strapped for cash.

I would have thought that the I6 in it's current guise would pretty much be at it's power ceiling (I'm talking about the n/a version here). But there could be some fuel efficiency improvements still to come. Electric waterpump and power steering? Engine block pre-heaters to cut down the warmup times? Cylinder deactivation (which it already has but as an overheating failsafe)? Stop-idle function?

Would Ford even bother trying to compete? The engine may be down on power compared to the 3.6 DI but still would have more torque. And then of course, there is the turbo motor for performance and premium applications. But being green is the thing these days and if they don't compete at least on a fuel consumption level, they'll get left behind.

Discuss.

ltd · 08-06-2009, 10:56 AM

No, with DI ford will have an even greater amount of power and better fuel economy. Look for a power output of about 220-225kw and fuel use down to about 8l/100klm on the combined cycle. There's still heaps of innovations available and from what I've heard, most of them will be used once the Euro4 emmissions standards come in 2010.
Things like piston design, tolerances, compression ration, dual spark, lower idle rpm, more knock sensors etc etc can add to fuel efficiency and increase power.

**PepeLePew** · 08-06-2009, 11:04 AM

You'd assume Ford has DI on the cards if the engine still has a future?

Tis unfortunate that power numbers sell, torque is still too technical for Joe Q Public to wrap their minds around.

futura97 · 08-06-2009, 11:35 AM

I thought ford was dumping the I6 in favour of a V6... And this was meant to be happening in the next couple of years?!

Edit - Article here...

Seems like holden are only going DI because ford where going to beat them to it anyway...

Falc'man · 08-06-2009, 11:47 AM

The I6 as it is now would still out-torque the DI 3.6L V6. Come 2010 the standard I6 available in the base model Falcon will still be favoured as the best 6 cylinder on the market: in this range, of course.

There is one thing you cannot take away from the Alloytec, no matter what you throw at it; coarseness!

Quote:

Originally Posted by futura97

I thought ford was dumping the I6 in favour of a V6... And this was meant to be happening in the next couple of years?!

Edit - Article here...

Seems like holden are only going DI because ford where going to beat them to it anyway...

No, I6 will stay on. That's a very old article.

futura97 · 08-06-2009, 11:52 AM

learn something every day

Have you got a link to an article about the changes they are making to the I6?

Kieron · 08-06-2009, 12:00 PM

Holden are releasing a 3L DI/6 speed auto later this year, fuel economy is reported to be in the 9.5/100 range so i'd say 8/100 for a 4.0/6 speed auto Falc is a bit optimistic

futura, they reversed that decision and the I6 stays. Not sure what thay says about the unique Falcon but it wouldn't be surprised if it's a sign of the demise of the Aussie Falc.

Not sure Holden are going DI due to Ford, that V6 is GM's world donk so the decision would have been more to do with whats needed worldwide in the battered GM bunker.

As for the I6, DI and cylinder deactivation are the obvious next step as already mentioned.
IIRC the reversal decision was based on the Aus govt. throwing some money Fords way which will be used for the I6's upcoming Euro 4 compliance so i'm thinking a few software tweaks + peripheral components such as exhaust/cat con's and thats about it.

XR Martin · 08-06-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Reading about the coming Direct Injection update for the Commodore (3.0L at first, who knows for the 3.6) of course made me think about the Falcon's trusty I6. If the Commodore gets a DI 3.6 litre V6 then the I6 will be out-powered (but not out-grunted) for the first time in years. Probably bring fuel economy improvements with it as well.

When the Alloytech came in 2004 it had 190kw, and the Barra had 182kw. When the Barra jumped to 190kw, the Alloytech had 195kw.
Now they are on equal footing with the 195kw FG.

So your comment on the Falcon being out powered for the first time in years isnt exactly accurate.

Falc'man · 08-06-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by futura97

learn something every day

Have you got a link to an article about the changes they are making to the I6?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11241338

Road_Warrior · 08-06-2009, 12:02 PM

Given the cost involved with developing DI for the I6, I can't see it happening. Would be good, but...not tonight, Josephine.

ltd · 08-06-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Given the cost involved with developing DI for the I6, I can't see it happening. Would be good, but...not tonight, Josephine.

Mate, it is happening. The I6 can't make Euro4 without it. Further, the I6 plant is going beyond the previous 2010 close down.

Road_Warrior · 08-06-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Mate, it is happening. The I6 can't make Euro4 without it. Further, the I6 plant is going beyond the previous 2010 close down.

lol, all the I6 will be getting to pass Euro 4 is a revised catalyser and ECU calibration. It's not much. The Euro 4 changes were already drawn up when the decision was made to switch to the V6.

Don't forget, Euro 4 is all about tailpipe emissions. Fuel economy is a market driven thing.

R-Design · 08-06-2009, 01:27 PM

"GoAuto understands the upgrade will focus on injection, calibration and exhaust, and company sources have confirmed the work will not involve moving to a direct injection system."

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257507000C2D46

**Fordman1** · 08-06-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Mate, it is happening. The I6 can't make Euro4 without it. Further, the I6 plant is going beyond the previous 2010 close down.

No DI for the forseeable future unfortunately.

It's all about calibration, electronics and the exhaust system next year...

Quicksand · 08-06-2009, 02:10 PM

could explain why Ford are looking at Liquid Injected LPG in the interim?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...&highlight=LPG

Mr Hardware · 08-06-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

When the Alloytech came in 2004 it had 190kw, and the Barra had 182kw. When the Barra jumped to 190kw, the Alloytech had 195kw.
Now they are on equal footing with the 195kw FG.

So your comment on the Falcon being out powered for the first time in years isnt exactly accurate.

Dude, your figures are for the hi-po commodore six, not the normal one
the VZ of 2004 had 172kw where as the BA had 182kw
The VE of 2006 had 180kw where as the BF has 190kw
now the FG has 195kw

about the only time the commodore outpowered the falcon was in 1986/1987 with the 114kw VL vs the 104?kw XF.

ltd · 08-06-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

No DI for the forseeable future unfortunately.

It's all about calibration, electronics and the exhaust system next year...

Yeah you're right, I was getting confused with the announcement I heard of the direct gas injection. Sorry.

**Fordman1** · 08-06-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Yeah you're right, I was getting confused with the announcement I heard of the direct gas injection. Sorry.

That Gas engine will be a ripper I'm sure ....

:

ltd · 08-06-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

That Gas engine will be a ripper I'm sure ....

:

I agree. Hopefully the power output of it will be higher as Gas apparently has a higher octane than petrol

Road_Warrior · 08-06-2009, 03:32 PM

Anyhoo, getting back on topic...

No DI in sight, what else could Ford have up their sleeve for the I6?

**Fordman1** · 08-06-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Anyhoo, getting back on topic...

No DI in sight, what else could Ford have up their sleeve for the I6?

The LI Gas engine will be the "Ace" up Fords sleeve (It's NOT off topic), lets hope they can convince the buying public that it is something they should purchase.

**Dave R** · 08-06-2009, 03:44 PM

Well without $$ there's not a whole lot Ford can do. The current powerplant is fine in terms of power and economy. Holden might just have the upper hand for the next few years.

If it's true that Ford is working on a diesel Territory, why couldn't they drop a diesel in the Falcon too?

seXCmont · 08-06-2009, 03:53 PM

save a lot of money on fuel and probably an excellent idea. the government already given out a rebate for turning your car to LPG would make sense if they through money Fords way to make the new I6 a LI Gas engine. LPG does burn Quicker than gas because of its higher octane. I think LPG is around the 104 mark compared to 92 of standard unleaded

BHDOGS · 08-06-2009, 04:04 PM

Ford ruined the I6 soon as they bolted a turbo onto it its skyline the second now with dyno queen whingers

phillyc · 08-06-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Ford ruined the I6 soon as they bolted a turbo onto it its skyline the second now with dyno queen whingers

More like created a modern day classic.

Back to the thread...

FalconXV · 08-06-2009, 04:54 PM

Put six polished throttle body manifolds on the side, Variable Valve lift, electric motors to take care of ancillaries,direct injection of course, desmodromic valves to reduce pumping loss, atkinson cycle function and lean burn highway function, let it scream its guts off; Since it's potentially nearing the end of it's life, it should go with a BANG! at least do this on an XR6 before the engine dies... (that reads like a 250kW, 430Nm, <8L/100km car to me...).
The engine doesn't have to die though, stranger things have happened and maybe Marin can convince Dearborn to keep it. Full Electronic Valve control should become mainstream through the new decade; I would love to see it on grampa's axe. Also CNG should be investigated and E85 ( since they can now extract it from tips, its the most sustainable option).Maybe even HCCi on an ecoNETIC version?
Even though Falcon now has a premium image, this is costing them fleet sales, so XT should be re-thought for cheapness of service, repair ( unpainted bumpers), CO2 and lower bottom line= Falcons used to cost less than smaller imported cars and their should be a spartan entry level model celebrating the purity of Falcon's fundamental virtues. Transit 2.4D/ 6 speed combo would work wonders.
In reality Ford Oz seems reluctant to make the radical changes necessary, they won't even bring in the electric Focus, which is utterly criminal (particularly when Hybrid Camry and Volt are coming).
To those who will condemn my post on the basis of irrelevant fantasy- to hell with you- the engine has alot of potential Ford will not exploit.

schnoods · 08-06-2009, 05:10 PM

Nothing left in the I6, its all been done.

Yet everyone kicks up a stink when they try to change it....

XR Martin · 08-06-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Dude, your figures are for the hi-po commodore six, not the normal one
the VZ of 2004 had 172kw where as the BA had 182kw
The VE of 2006 had 180kw where as the BF has 190kw
now the FG has 195kw

about the only time the commodore outpowered the falcon was in 1986/1987 with the 114kw VL vs the 104?kw XF.

I knew someone would bring that up..

Well the same could apply to the EA-EB1 then, and also the XFs

Base model 3.9L EA-EBIs had 120kw, VN/VP Commodore had 125kw
And im glad you brought up the XF, base model XF had 90kw (and 3.2L EAs) , VL had 114kw

Lukeyson · 08-06-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schnoods

Nothing left in the I6, its all been done.

Yet everyone kicks up a stink when they try to change it....

The thing is why change it ? for a cheaper end TQE (by that i mean it isnt competing with bmw etc) , nothing touches it IMO in performance and drivability

schnoods · 08-06-2009, 05:48 PM

Well Buick did change their straight 8 powered cars to the more compact V8, one day ford might think the same way...

Im not saying change it for changes sake, but a bit more development in an alternate engine, good things dont last forever...

Some say torquey down low, others say lazy up higher...