Rip off Builders site fees!

EDManual · 06-06-2009, 10:38 PM

A mate of mine has been getting quotes for a house to be built, and had the quote of $24000 for site excavations from the builder with just 1.5 metres fall over the block. An earthmover not associated to the builder is going to do it all for $5000.
Another earthmoving bloke we know told us he is getting paid $3000 for a days work excavating for a home, the builder is charging the housebuilder $22,000!! FOR 1 days work for an excavating crew....

I had a builder quote me $7500 to level my block, had it done for $1200 myself, then went back to them... plus many more thousands for deep footings, double brick walls etc etc, only to not need them to do any of it. Still charged though, until I complained with my photographic evidence that none of it was done. IE footing photos before the concrete pours with tape measures down the holes!

Also They tried to charge an extra $3000 for a tank with pump, only for me to discover it was already in the list of inclusions!

Watch out people! Scammers they are!

GT69 · 06-06-2009, 11:06 PM

you really think these people become millionaires (off other peoples backs mind you) by charging out trades (sub-contractors, not employees) at the rate in which their paying them?

I was working for a builder and getting $19.50per sq metre. I had a look at an owners contract. $35.50per sq metre was what was charged by the builder. *edit* by the way, i believe the standard pay-rate per square metre is around $26 - $30

The old rule was 20% profit for a building contractor on the price of a home. We haven't had a pay increase in 6 years (infact prices have been dropping) yet the contract prices have been rising. I would hazard a guess at around 50% profit taken by the builder.

Also our personal rates (every trade involved in building your house) dropped 25% in 07/08 year. Not all builders are like that. But believe me. 'Good' honest building contractors are few and very bloody far between

Spanrz · 06-06-2009, 11:15 PM

Sometimes business people have the tendancy to quote huge numbers, in the hope you wouldn't ask them to do it (i.e they are too busy).
But if we (the consumer) are silly enough to grant such a case, then we are at fault and asking for it (trouble).
Site excavations can be anything from a few grand to many thousands (as you quoted), but maybe they are banking there is bad ground / rocks underneath and it may need a fill after the rocks are removed.
Also, on the size of land can be the factor too. Is it a standard house block size, or are we talking acres?
Maybe they are covering their bases upfront.

**ebxr8240** · 06-06-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanrz

Sometimes business people have the tendancy to quote huge numbers, in the hope you wouldn't ask them to do it (i.e they are too busy).
But if we (the consumer) are silly enough to grant such a case, then we are at fault and asking for it (trouble).
Site excavations can be anything from a few grand to many thousands (as you quoted), but maybe they are banking there is bad ground / rocks underneath and it may need a fill after the rocks are removed.
Also, on the size of land can be the factor too. Is it a standard house block size, or are we talking acres?
Maybe they are covering their bases upfront.

There are outside costs for rock etc as stated in contract..
Yes it PAYS to double check everything!!
I am importing an engine which I was quoted to my post code, Now they want $400 odd to deliver from therer depot to my address..
What they DON'T know.. I was ME they quoted and who paid the other end !!

rodderz · 07-06-2009, 12:05 AM

Builders make a lot of money off site costs, as most people don't have an idea of what the rates are. Of course they have to cover blow-outs and incidentals to compensate if there is, and there are also rock allowances if they should hit any. In most cases though (in new estates) the whole area is scalped, services put through, and topsoil put back over the lots so the digging is usually pretty good.

Most site cuts for a conc slab will take a day depending on how many loads they have to get rid of (if any). Most excavation guys charge around $90-130/hr for a medium excavator/truck combo and tip fee's depend on area (probably around $80/10m3), adding the jack hammer for machine may be around an extra $40/hr so you can get a rough idea that way.

See if the builder is flexible to allow you to source independent quotes, it will save $1000's. To give an idea, a mate was charged $9000 for his excavation fees and by coincidence sold a car to a guy who did the excavation work for his builder who estimated it would cost him $3000.

Walt Kowalski · 07-06-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

Still charged though, until I complained with my photographic evidence that none of it was done. IE footing photos before the concrete pours with tape measures down the holes!

Also They tried to charge an extra $3000 for a tank with pump, only for me to discover it was already in the list of inclusions!

Sounds like one for "A Current Affair" to me.

cycle myth · 07-06-2009, 05:24 PM

Too right - buyer beware.

I have just had tenders returned of our house.

The highest price is twice the price of the lowest - (the difference is hundreds of thousands of dollars)

I'm not even going to bother to discuss it further with them and the architect is going to have to explain what relationship he has in recommending a builder that clearly doesn't want the work - because I'm considering what further business I need to do with the architect.

Brent · 07-06-2009, 05:35 PM

Hmmmm. Interesting. Contrary to popular belief, residential building companies have been doing very nicely for many years now. All this rubbish about builders struggling whenever interest rates went up by .25% a few years back was absolute BS. Now that rates are at an all-time low, you don't see 'em knocking 20% off their quotes now do you?

When other areas of the economy have tanked, the new housing market has been going strong, supported of course by average Joe who wants to do some renos to his existing joint, as well as speciality builders who operate in the prestige development market. Builders have been doing very nicely thanks very much. Those that haven't made good coin in the last 10 years wouldn't be able to make money anywhere.

Not that I'm in the market to do so, but the mere thought of ever having to have a home built scares the bejesus out of me. The shortcuts that can be taken by builders to save a few $$$ where the home owner will never know are almost limitless. A scary industry indeed.

Scott · 07-06-2009, 05:37 PM

Tradies are doing it tough in my neck of the woods at the moment, I have qualified carpenters offering their services for $19-$30/hr to do some reno work for me. A tip for anyone looking for a tradie at the moment is to jump on gumtree.com and advertise for what you want done.

I threw an add on and have had about 20 tradies contact me (over 2-3 days), virtually crawling over each other for the works. It is a stark turn-around from the impossible task of getting someone out to do a quote for me 6-12 months ago. They simply refused to quote works or said they would bu just didn't turn up.

The wheel turns for all and I am happy that I am in a position to choose who works at my place instead of having to settle for what I could find.

gtfpv · 07-06-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

A mate of mine has been getting quotes for a house to be built, and had the quote of $24000 for site excavations from the builder with just 1.5 metres fall over the block. An earthmover not associated to the builder is going to do it all for $5000.
Another earthmoving bloke we know told us he is getting paid $3000 for a days work excavating for a home, the builder is charging the housebuilder $22,000!! FOR 1 days work for an excavating crew....

I had a builder quote me $7500 to level my block, had it done for $1200 myself, then went back to them... plus many more thousands for deep footings, double brick walls etc etc, only to not need them to do any of it. Still charged though, until I complained with my photographic evidence that none of it was done. IE footing photos before the concrete pours with tape measures down the holes!

Also They tried to charge an extra $3000 for a tank with pump, only for me to discover it was already in the list of inclusions!

Watch out people! Scammers they are!

9 YEARS AGO I BUILT A HOME . i paid the builders $11000 for fixed site costs including peering .
the neighbour accross the road also built , but he is a builder . he's land area was bigger and more sloped than mine . his own site costs were $1170. waht your saying is right . you get ripped off big time on site costs , unfortunately unless you are a buiolder yourself . not much you can do about it .

gtfpv · 07-06-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycle myth

Too right - buyer beware.

I have just had tenders returned of our house.

The highest price is twice the price of the lowest - (the difference is hundreds of thousands of dollars)

I'm not even going to bother to discuss it further with them and the architect is going to have to explain what relationship he has in recommending a builder that clearly doesn't want the work - because I'm considering what further business I need to do with the architect.

beware !!!!! you mght regret cheap quotes . it very much does work both ways in the building industry.

351buzz · 07-06-2009, 09:41 PM

I employed my architect for every service except for supervision of the construction.
If I had my time again I would happily pay that extra 3,000, as I am sick to death of having to get my builder to "fix this up, like it is in the plans", "why's that like that? did you follow the plans", "read the specs mate, it's in the specs", " don't care why you changed it, the plans are right, follow the plans", ect, ect.
Nearing the end of a build which took 6 months, including 2 months downtime because windows ($35,000 worth) weren't checked off properly and all started showing up divided up wrong.
My architect sorted that for me,but next time I would keep the architect all the way through.
Not to run thread completely off track, I got a seperate contractor in to do my site works/driveway.

fakegt · 08-06-2009, 07:06 PM

As a builder of 15 years I can recommend that everyone become an "Owner Builder". Its only after massive time and cost blow outs that you can appreciate what a builder has to put up with every day. In my view, I would earn more money and have more family time if I went and worked for someone else, but I offer a great service at a resonable price. I don't quote work I don't want, it costs time and money to quote. Remember, a free quote cost the builder money.
Do your homework, speak to lots of people and insist on recommendations.
All my work is passed on from past clients, upset one client and the chain is broken for good.