5 yearly driving tests

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

"I've been driving for thirty years and I don't need to be tested again!".

Sure...you've "never had an accident", but you've probably caused dozens.

Never mistake "experience" for "skill"...

Skill? That reminds me of the few guys I knew who would have run rings around anyone else when it came to skill, they were never short of it. They're all dead thanks to the lack of experience and common sense.

[hawker]

IMHO until the testing is better, P platters should be targeted. Especially some of the idiots I see on the road. If they're not driving the right way yet, they never will...

[Ben73]

It would be a great idea, IF the test was a proper test to improve skills.
The current licence test is, Obey the speed limit, stop before the line at the stop sign, do a reverse park, indicate for long enough when changing lanes while checking blindspot and bingo you have a licence.

That is not going to help anyone because most of the problems on the road have to do with stuff that is not even in the current licence test.

But then again so many people do not know how to change lanes correctly. Reminding them to indicate and look over shoulder during a test might make them think twice next time they change lanes.

[aussie muscle]

They were talking about this issue on the radio yesterday - from a NSW perspective. The RTA rep basically said it's too expensive for the perceived benefit.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

They were talking about this issue on the radio yesterday - from a NSW perspective. The RTA rep basically said it's too expensive for the perceived benefit.

Translation:

We are only interested in "road safety" initiatives that make money, saving lives is less important than revinue......

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

They were talking about this issue on the radio yesterday - from a NSW perspective. The RTA rep basically said it's too expensive for the perceived benefit.

hahahaaa...."perceived benefit"..... yes who cares it may make people a bit more aware and safer?

[THE CADBURY KID]

Nobody needs to be tested 5 yearly, the people who do the testing and do driving lessons need to be trained much better in accordance with some sort of across the board standard and dont let people have their license who have no road sense.
The answer is to keep them off the road in the first place, not retest them after they are unleashed to cause carnage and stupidity.
too late to fix when the problem is as widespread as it is just prevent it from now on.
I love how the government waits till stuff is fully out of hand before they even consider trying a fix
No such thing as preventative maintenance anymore,just wait till the law is broken and throw the book at them.

[Outbackjack]

Bi annual tests ( treat it like a refresher ) and perhaps if law enforcement on the roads went past speeding fines. Surely guvs are taking enough revenue from cameras to make these tests free??Then we might see some benefit. Also if our state guvs had the guts to start taking licenses away for life...... we might see some respect for other road users and some attitude changes. Personally I think that ego's and attitudes are to blame for much of the road carnage. 2 cents spent.

[2011G6E]

So once you've passed your licence test, you don't need any further testing or assessment for the following decades of driving? You never need any updates or checks to see if you still retain the skills neccisary to do your job safely?

As I said, I drive trains...there's no need to steer, as long as you look at the signals, you can honestly drive along with your feet on the dashboard and chat to your offsider.
Yet we have to be comprehensively retested every two years at most, or we're off the road.
Why should car drivers be any different, given the much higher chance of injuring other people? No ones skills just stay at the level they were at when tested, especially when most people seem to see driving as an automatic skill, not worthy of real concentration.

The arguments used in this thread are many..."people don't use thier indicators"..."they drive like idiots now"..."they don't do things well enough"...and they are all the exact reason people should be retested regularly and harshly.
It wouldn't be hard to make a stricter driving test, and if you fail, you lose your licence until you prove you are up to standard again. There can be no possible arguement for removing bad drivers from the road like this...they don't deserve to be out there with the rest of us.
It's time people learned that driving truly isn't a right, it's a privelage.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So once you've passed your licence test, you don't need any further testing or assessment for the following decades of driving? You never need any updates or checks to see if you still retain the skills necessary to do your job safely?

As I said, I drive trains...there's no need to steer, as long as you look at the signals, you can honestly drive along with your feet on the dashboard and chat to your offsider.
Yet we have to be comprehensively retested every two years at most, or we're off the road.
Why should car drivers be any different, given the much higher chance of injuring other people? No ones skills just stay at the level they were at when tested, especially when most people seem to see driving as an automatic skill, not worthy of real concentration.

The arguments used in this thread are many..."people don't use their indicators"..."they drive like idiots now"..."they don't do things well enough"...and they are all the exact reason people should be retested regularly and harshly.
It wouldn't be hard to make a stricter driving test, and if you fail, you lose your licence until you prove you are up to standard again. There can be no possible argument for removing bad drivers from the road like this...they don't deserve to be out there with the rest of us.
It's time people learned that driving truly isn't a right, it's a privilege.

Well put. I think that once you have done a couple of renewals they would become less intimidating. Because people would start to take their skill levels more seriously.

[bang_on33]

I think it's a waste of time targeting everyone this way. I have a better solution:

ALL driving tests should include a separate and compulsory defensive driving course, which you need to pass (not just complete).

There should be a standard fine and/or demerit points for the 'at fault' driver of an accident. This person should also be required to pass the driving test & course again to keep their licence.

My two cents worth anyway.

[Fled74]

We should take a leaf from Scandinavia's book of driver education.

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by hawker

IMHO until the testing is better, P platters should be targeted. Especially some of the idiots I see on the road. If they're not driving the right way yet, they never will...

So you're saying that ALL of the bad drivers on the road are in fact P-Platers?

I would bet on the fact that there are more idiotic middle aged women driving SUVs than there are misbehaving P-Platers.

[pulpist]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Proof that the current system is failing:

Crossing The Kingsway in Glen Waverley with a green walking man (clearly visible - it was night time) and a lovely young oriental girl with a p-plate on her car almost ran us down, not realising we had right of way...

How can somebody that just got their license be so damn clueless?

I support driving tests every five years in theory alone. In practice, the system simply doesn't work.

I think that the quality of teaching is terrible nowadays with people like Jimmy Fong teaching young people how to drive when "indicator" or "road manners" are yet to enter his vocabulary...

Perhaps inflammatory, but I just think it's a concern...

I avoid the suburb one over from me on a Saturday morning.

It's like trying to negotiate traffic in Delhi or Mogadishu.

Forty percent of the drivers are totally clueless, and downright dangerous

[winman]

we should incorporate a system like what some of the European country's are using, which i believe is about a total of 20 hours of a driving course attended and passed. this way bad habits aren't passed down from parent to child.

also as for the belief that all p platers are maniacs on the road, im a p plater, driving a modified car, i obey the road rules, and every single day i see full license drivers doing the downright dangerous stuff. i think its ******** that a whole group is stereotyped and frowned upon because of the actions of a few idiots.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So once you've passed your licence test, you don't need any further testing or assessment for the following decades of driving? You never need any updates or checks to see if you still retain the skills neccisary to do your job safely?

As I said, I drive trains...there's no need to steer, as long as you look at the signals, you can honestly drive along with your feet on the dashboard and chat to your offsider.
Yet we have to be comprehensively retested every two years at most, or we're off the road.
Why should car drivers be any different, given the much higher chance of injuring other people? No ones skills just stay at the level they were at when tested, especially when most people seem to see driving as an automatic skill, not worthy of real concentration.

The arguments used in this thread are many..."people don't use thier indicators"..."they drive like idiots now"..."they don't do things well enough"...and they are all the exact reason people should be retested regularly and harshly.
It wouldn't be hard to make a stricter driving test, and if you fail, you lose your licence until you prove you are up to standard again. There can be no possible arguement for removing bad drivers from the road like this...they don't deserve to be out there with the rest of us.
It's time people learned that driving truly isn't a right, it's a privelage.

You seem convinced , now for 1 minute do you think that a person or people who - run stop signs , drink drive , fail to indicate, drive tired , make bad decisions etc etc won't pass a driving test ....because they will . Hey I'm all for the improving of drivers abilities , but that's got diddly squat to do with attitudes / fatigue / concentration or the general consensus that , I'm guessing most people believe they are great or at least good drivers .maybe if our govco was serious ... each time you did something wrong they would put you through a serious driver training course and repeat offenders get license revoked till they can get it right .1 thing I know is I personally could pass ( as most would ) any test you throw at me , now ask me if I'm a good driver , well I think I am ....can I still go out and act like an idiot , well yep I just got retested....., I see what you think , but in reality a wasted process .my 2 cents

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So once you've passed your licence test, you don't need any further testing or assessment for the following decades of driving? You never need any updates or checks to see if you still retain the skills neccisary to do your job safely?

No I don't believe that once you have passed your license test you need to be constantly retested. The initial test should be good enough to make sure they weed out the nuffies but it will always be a matter of just passing a 30 minute driving test ....... not in proving anything else. Cannot see any benifit to anyone to go through it every 5-10 or 20 years.

If you can pass the test at 18 and surive to 20, with experience you will only get better. Regular testing will do squat.
Depends on the job of course so yes and no to the last bit.

As I said, I drive trains...there's no need to steer, as long as you look at the signals, you can honestly drive along with your feet on the dashboard and chat to your offsider.
Yet we have to be comprehensively retested every two years at most, or we're off the road.
Why should car drivers be any different, given the much higher chance of injuring other people? No ones skills just stay at the level they were at when tested, especially when most people seem to see driving as an automatic skill, not worthy of real concentration.

There would be many arguments on what jobs require regular testing. Don't know much about driving trains, planes, or any other pieces of transport where literally 10's of 1000's of people put their trust a few hundred running the show but I hope they are well trained and tested often. 1 person in those instances could be a massive problem. Same could be said for people on the road next to you but retesting isn't the problem. Its the initial test that's the problem ...... Everyone has the right to drive ..... that is the problem. It is only after they stuff up AND get caught doing so is something done about it. Being tested as part of an employment is very different.

The arguments used in this thread are many..."people don't use thier indicators"..."they drive like idiots now"..."they don't do things well enough"...and they are all the exact reason people should be retested regularly and harshly.

So ....... retest them every year ..... every 6 months ..... they drive to pass the test. Then their back out on the road doing what they want. What was the point of the test? To see if they could pass a test? Experience accounts for a hell of a lot more than skill. Everyone can have the skill to jump in a car and drive and that is not what its about.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It wouldn't be hard to make a stricter driving test, and if you fail, you lose your licence until you prove you are up to standard again. There can be no possible arguement for removing bad drivers from the road like this...they don't deserve to be out there with the rest of us.
It's time people learned that driving truly isn't a right, it's a privelage.

The initial test should be the hardest ...... not the next one! Make it a subject at school. Make it harder with a longer drive, different conditions, different cars ..... but not just a road test to see if you don't crash, speed or run over someone on a pedestrian crossing. If you get back to the RTA in one piece ..... you pass.

As far as a right ........ yes it is very much the right of everyone to have the opportunity to drive. Not a privilege at all. Everyone and anyone can get a license but if you do something wrong that right is taken away.

I was skilled enough to drive a car at 14 ........ was I experienced enough to drive on the road then? Its not just about being able to drive a car ....... you cannot teach experience.

[FG_Frodza]

Originally Posted by Parkway

So you're saying that ALL of the bad drivers on the road are in fact P-Platers?

I would bet on the fact that there are more idiotic middle aged women driving SUVs than there are misbehaving P-Platers.

Mate IMO you are right, middle aged women are completely clueless (generally speaking) they don't indicate, they cut you off and then look at you like you're the idiot and they tailgate you, not because they're angry, just because they don't know to keep a safe distance.

People should have a bit more respect for the road.

But at the end of the day, the ones drink driving, drag racing and hooning on the roads are generally P-platers or young men... and while they may have better skills than the middle aged women driving SUVs who really don't care, they also have bigger egos and think they are invincible and unfortunately this is what is causing deaths on the road these days...

Silly 30+ year old women are the ones causing parking lot prangs, but P-platers are the ones wrapping their cars around stobie polls.

[FG_Frodza]

But with that said, driving tests are going to do SFA to change driving attitudes.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So once you've passed your licence test, you don't need any further testing or assessment for the following decades of driving? You never need any updates or checks to see if you still retain the skills neccisary to do your job safely?

As I said, I drive trains...there's no need to steer, as long as you look at the signals, you can honestly drive along with your feet on the dashboard and chat to your offsider.
Yet we have to be comprehensively retested every two years at most, or we're off the road.
Why should car drivers be any different, given the much higher chance of injuring other people? No ones skills just stay at the level they were at when tested, especially when most people seem to see driving as an automatic skill, not worthy of real concentration.

The arguments used in this thread are many..."people don't use thier indicators"..."they drive like idiots now"..."they don't do things well enough"...and they are all the exact reason people should be retested regularly and harshly.
It wouldn't be hard to make a stricter driving test, and if you fail, you lose your licence until you prove you are up to standard again. There can be no possible arguement for removing bad drivers from the road like this...they don't deserve to be out there with the rest of us.
It's time people learned that driving truly isn't a right, it's a privelage.

Whilst i agree that the idea has some merit it is the time span between testing which will render it useless to the majority.

Testing every 2 years may yield results, but how hard would it be to retest the whole population every 2 years?

[Geez Louise]

I am a middle aged Woman driving an SUV and I don't think my skills are that bad, however that being said, over time you do get lazy when driving.

I can honestly say I am a confident driver who always indicates (especially at roundabouts - Why don't people indicate on them! Pet hate of mine), keeping my distance etc....but I do have a bit of a lead foot! Could I do with a refresher course...probably. Like I said, people do get lazy over time when driving as it is a habit.

Are you putting me in the same group as P-Platers?

[hawker]

Originally Posted by Parkway

So you're saying that ALL of the bad drivers on the road are in fact P-Platers?

I would bet on the fact that there are more idiotic middle aged women driving SUVs than there are misbehaving P-Platers.

Actually no. I am saying that if they maybe crack down on crap P platters, they won't become full licensed idiots.

You don't become a crap driver over night, it comes from poor training and people not correcting you!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I am a middle aged Woman driving an SUV and I don't think my skills are that bad, however that being said, over time you do get lazy when driving.

I can honestly say I am a confident driver who always indicates (especially at roundabouts - Why don't people indicate on them! Pet hate of mine), keeping my distance etc....but I do have a bit of a lead foot! Could I do with a refresher course...probably. Like I said, people do get lazy over time when driving as it is a habit.

Are you putting me in the same group as P-Platers?

That bit about "you become lazy with time" is exactly the point.
Once you pass your test, no matter how hard, surely no one is suggesting (but some are I suppose...) that every single drivers skills get better with time and that five, ten, or twenty years later they will still be as good if not better than they were before? Look around...any observation of the average line of traffic would suggest otherwise...there are too many people who see driving as something that doesn't require a lot of thought, and too many who have way too much confidance in thier skills and are not as good as they think they are.

Retesting would catch out those who just cruise along and couldn't care to be involved in the driving experience, and it would sharpen the skills of those who are involved in the process of controlling a motor vehicle.
Generally speaking, peoples skills should increase with experience..."generally"...however, with driving a car, it's the huge number of ones who don't who are the whole reason that retesting should be a normal part of driving.

Or is it that some people are afraid of what might happen if they were suddenly told "You'll be tested now...let's see if you get to keep your licence and if you're as good as you think you are"?

[hawker]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Or is it that some people are afraid of what might happen if they were suddenly told "You'll be tested now...let's see if you get to keep your licence and if you're as good as you think you are"?

I actually think it's more about inconvenience. Even RTA (NSW) realise this, which is why they send out your rego sticker in advance, no going in to get it done like the old days.

The waiting list to get tested is already at a major backlog (especially in the ACT from what I hear), add in a lot more people how do you think it will go? The biggest problem: I don't think RTA will employ more people to handle all these changes. Which is why I said, it works in theory, not in practice...

I'm not against testing, at all. I am saying that some people need to be targeted. Especially the inexperienced drivers. Ie. my P platter comments (add in people over 60 too). But police should target everyone (but of course, they don't have the resources - in the old days highway patrol did just that, now general duties are stretched so far, highway patrol are doing that job too etc). If the cops are getting them, and the courts are making them retest or do advanced courses, things will get better. Sure it won't take all the bad drivers off the road, but it will help.

I agree some people become lazy over time. But I've found that over the years my driving, reaction time etc has become a lot better, I think riding a motorbike also helps here. I notice people on the road get a far too trusting attitude as the years go on. For example, if I see you're indicating to turn, I won't go until I see you doing that turn, lost count the amount of t-bones that have been caused by someone going to turn and changing their mind!

In regards to my earlier comments, I'm in no way saying p platters are the worst drivers on the road. I could bring up Asian drivers (all of them, women especially), let's also throw in skyline drivers who think they're at Daytona, or the motorbike that has to rush everywhere... Again, it's all about training and changing attitudes.

All of this is very academic. Until the govt actually spend time and money looking into the issue, we will continue to get silly ideas like 'testing every 5 years'... It's a knee-jerk reaction and a band-aid solution - and this isn't the first time the idea has been floated. They're going to stress out the system even more, which will make one of two things happen. Testers will become Nazi's or more likely, they'll burn out, and people will get through the cracks in the testing...

On the subject of crap drivers, a lot of taxi drivers are terrible, how some of them are still alive is beyond me - IMHO this should be addressed, they're professional drivers, but they don't bloody act like it.

I'll get off my soap box now!

[LTDHO]

not sure if the attitute has changed (I assume so) but driving instructors used to teach the learner how to pass the test, not how to drive.

Whilst Media/Police/RTA have there targets (Hoons/speeders) then road safety will never increase, drivers will have the mentality that as long as they aren't hooning or speeding then thery are a safe driver, fact is that they are far from it.

[FG_Frodza]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I am a middle aged Woman driving an SUV and I don't think my skills are that bad, however that being said, over time you do get lazy when driving.

I can honestly say I am a confident driver who always indicates (especially at roundabouts - Why don't people indicate on them! Pet hate of mine), keeping my distance etc....but I do have a bit of a lead foot! Could I do with a refresher course...probably. Like I said, people do get lazy over time when driving as it is a habit.

Are you putting me in the same group as P-Platers?

If you read what I said properly you would see that I made it clear that I was speaking generally. I think 5 year refreshers will help people like you to overcome your lazy driving, but as I said, it wont do anything to change the attitudes of the young men who treat the roads like a race track... So no, I am not putting you in the same group as P-platers.

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I am a middle aged Woman driving an SUV and I don't think my skills are that bad, however that being said, over time you do get lazy when driving.

I can honestly say I am a confident driver who always indicates (especially at roundabouts - Why don't people indicate on them! Pet hate of mine), keeping my distance etc....but I do have a bit of a lead foot! Could I do with a refresher course...probably. Like I said, people do get lazy over time when driving as it is a habit.

Are you putting me in the same group as P-Platers?

Is there a benchmark for how good/bad/skillful a driver is? What some people might consider good, others might think pretty average to poor. My dad for instance, actually thinks that he's a fantastic driver, purely because of the fact that he's never had a crash. He's absolutely terrible (in my opinion) and I'm constantly putting my foot into the floor where the brake pedal should be when I'm in the car with him because he tailgates/brakes at the last second and that's probably considered normal to him.

And no, I'm not putting you in the same class a P-Platers. I'm not personally saying that every single SUV driving middle-aged woman can't drive either, I'm saying that - from what I've witnessed - there seems to be a trend where there are woman driving SUVs and doing absolutely stupid things; more so than P-Platers "hooning" or misbehaving.

I'd like to make a note that these are MY encounters. It may be a different case depending on your location for instance.

[hawker]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

not sure if the attitute has changed (I assume so) but driving instructors used to teach the learner how to pass the test, not how to drive.

Of course. That's the problem with having paid instructors, they have to get you to pass the test, otherwise they're not going to get recommended. This is something that needs more work. Which is where I think advanced driving courses come into play.

As for lazy driving. 5 year tests mean people will drive good for the test and then as soon as they leave the car park after passing they'll go back to their old ways. Again, you're not changing attitudes, just making people take another 'test'...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by hawker

Of course. That's the problem with having paid instructors, they have to get you to pass the test, otherwise they're not going to get recommended. This is something that needs more work. Which is where I think advanced driving courses come into play.

As for lazy driving. 5 year tests mean people will drive good for the test and then as soon as they leave the car park after passing they'll go back to their old ways. Again, you're not changing attitudes, just making people take another 'test'...

It seems to work quite well in aviation......