Why Catalytic Converters??

[75LTD]

This topic has come up on a thread and I didn't want to keep going off topic in that thread so I started this to get people's opinions.
The subject is, WTF are they there for & how would the LAW stand up in Court if challenged.
I know it's 'illegal' to have them hollow or remove them and thats been well covered elsewhere so if we could move on to the Common Sense of the Law side of it. First some quote's I've Googled.

Medical Journal of Australia:
Objective: To examine the trends in motor vehicle exhaust gas suicides since 1970 and to investigate the impact of catalytic converters.
Design: Australia-wide database analyses and a retrospective stratified series of 100 Victorian cases.
Data sources: Australian Bureau of Statistics, 1970-1995; Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, National Injury Surveillance Unit, 1991/92-1995/96; Victorian Coroner's files, 1994-1996.
Results: There were 509 motor vehicle exhaust gas suicides in Australia in 1995, representing 22% of total suicides. Since the 1986 requirements for reduced carbon monoxide emissions from new vehicles (and thus the use of catalytic converters), the absolute numbers and rates of such suicides have increased, and they have come to represent a larger percentage of total suicides. Of 75 Victorian victims' vehicles traced, 36% were manufactured during or after 1986, showing that exhaust gas suicides have occurred in vehicles with catalytic converters. Blood carboxyhaemoglobin levels did not differ between victims using vehicles with or without catalytic converters. Between 1976 and 1991 exhaust gas suicides increased at a faster rate than motor vehicle registrations. Australian hospital admissions for exhaust gas suicide attempts have increased substantially since 1991-1992.
Conclusion: Catalytic converters and the associated lower CO emission limits of 9.3 g/km had not, by 1995, resulted in a reduction in numbers, rates or percentages of exhaust gas suicides in Australia.
So they're not safer.

BP Fuels don't recommend it either:


Sulphur in fuel contributes directly to the emission of sulphur dioxide into the environment and while the majority of sulphur dioxide emissions are produced by industry and domestic heating, a significant amount is also emitted by motor vehicles. Sulphur dioxide, in turn, leads to the formation of sulphate particles which can be associated with a variety of health effects, and contribute to the visible haze familiar to anyone who has walked or cycled alongside traffic congested roads. Sulphur dioxide can also lead to the secondary formation of highly corrosive sulphuric acid which can lead to building damage.

Good news for your catalytic converter :

And sulphur also has an indirect effect on exhaust emissions. The sulphur present in fuel reduces the efficiency of your car’s catalytic converter which means that over time it loses its ability to reduce the harmful emissions from your engine.

According to posts on this site Cats dont even work until they are hot.
So, these cats that work part time but dont do anything, how does one help my car & how would all this stand up in a court?
I wonder..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 75LTD

According to posts on this site Cats dont even work until they are hot. So, these cats that work part time but dont do anything, how does one help my car & how would all this stand up in a court?
I wonder..

Long story short, they help reduce/remove Carbon Monoxide, Hydrocarbons and Oxides of Nitrous.

I covered this in Repair/Replace Emissions Control Systems at TAFE.

[Jim Goose]

You realise that a cat converter needs to be hot in order to work?

When you first start up cold it stinks... because its not cleaning any exhaust fumes.

[75LTD]

I guess my point is that apparently the fine for not having a operational one fitted is $250,000. If they tried it on someone I wonder if a good solicitor, or going by the info available, a not so good one could prove the things are actually useless & were originally little more than a excuse to force people to buy a new car just to help the Big Motor Companies, then I wonder if it could be overturned. 'Just coz the government said so' isn't a good enough excuse these days. On the evidence available, they dont make the fumes any less deadly, they are designed to wear out, the fuel they make wears them out even faster and they cost a fortune and in many states after market is illegal. Sounds more like a corporate scam....good thing our elected leaders are more trustworthy than that!
I mean these companies are fast learners. Once they saw Aussies were silly enough to buy something they already own, IE Telecom, Commonwealth, Quantas and the power water & roads, they just Knew we'd be up for buying a new car just because there was an excuse to move people into a new one. Betacord to Blu Ray. Hmmmm....

[75LTD]

Har Har Har Just on a sidebar topic, loved it the other week when 'Only believe me if it's in writing' Tony Abbott was banging on again about how because Carbon dioxide is weightless, colourless & odourless it's harmless. One of the Greens or Xenophone, cant remember which said he should stick his head in a plastic bag full of it & see how harmless it is. Ha HA Good line! What a clown.

[XR Martin]

One reason more 'motor exhaust suicides' have occured is due to the banning of guns.
Since the Port Arthur massacre and the subsequent gun buy back, suicides via firearms have reduced dramatically. (upto 80%)
The actual number of suicides since then has increased. People are just finding other ways to kill themselves.

You are fairly naive to think somehow catalytic convertors are the reason for the increase of those kind of suicides....
End of the day it takes the same amount of CO2 to asphixiate a human, cat or not.

[75LTD]

You are fairly naive to think somehow catalytic convertors are the reason for the increase of those kind of suicides....
Umm not quite sure where I made that claim but anyway...
Umm....actually that wasn't my point but thanks anyway. It was this paragraph I was referring to. QUOTE 'Of 75 Victorian victims' vehicles traced, 36% were manufactured during or after 1986, showing that exhaust gas suicides have occurred in vehicles with catalytic converters. Blood carboxyhaemoglobin levels did not differ between victims using vehicles with or without catalytic converters.' then this : Catalytic converters and the associated lower CO emission limits of 9.3 g/km had not, by 1995, resulted in a reduction in numbers, rates or percentages of exhaust gas suicides in Australia.
So they're not safer.


ANY suicide is sad however it occurs.

[Jim Goose]

$250000 fine??? Er... um... where did you get that from?

If they tried it on someone I wonder if a good solicitor, or going by the info available, a not so good one could prove the things are actually useless & were originally little more than a excuse to force people to buy a new car just to help the Big Motor Companies, then I wonder if it could be overturned. 'Just coz the government said so' isn't a good enough excuse these days.

The ADRs says it must be fitted.... try and change the ADRs... good luck

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 75LTD

You are fairly naive to think somehow catalytic convertors are the reason for the increase of those kind of suicides....
Umm not quite sure where I made that claim but anyway...
Umm....actually that wasn't my point but thanks anyway. It was this paragraph I was referring to. QUOTE 'Of 75 Victorian victims' vehicles traced, 36% were manufactured during or after 1986, showing that exhaust gas suicides have occurred in vehicles with catalytic converters. Blood carboxyhaemoglobin levels did not differ between victims using vehicles with or without catalytic converters.' then this : Catalytic converters and the associated lower CO emission limits of 9.3 g/km had not, by 1995, resulted in a reduction in numbers, rates or percentages of exhaust gas suicides in Australia.
So they're not safer.


ANY suicide is sad however it occurs.

They were measuring the amount of CO2 in the blood, sticking a hose from the exhaust from a Prius or a dump truck into the cabin wont change that amount of CO2 in the blood at the point of death.

Kind of like jumping from a 10 story building vs a 50 story one, you will still die, its just one will kill you sooner.

[Auslandau]

Catalytic Converters = Tony Abbott ......... WOW. Agenda much?