The Death of Choice

[Crazy Dazz]

Time was, the most popular cars could be ordered with any of 5 or 6 different engines, custom colour schemes, contrasting or matching interiors, and a list of options as long as your arm. In those days the salesman had to understand all those options, write-up your order consulting catalogues for option codes, and MAIL it to the factory. At every junction somebody had to manually consult written instructions for parts, colours, etc. Many, MANY options were either fitted after assembly or "dealer fitted"! At a factory level, every difference would have slowed assembly.

Now days, I can order a mug or t-shirt from overseas, with my own custom graphic or photo and it will be in the mail within 24 hours. I can custom order a computer, and it too will roll out of the factory a day later.
A paint colour can be matched to an existing object, or chosen from thousands of combinations, and mixed by a computer controlled machine.

In theory, I could order a completely customised car sitting at my computer, and the details would be at the factory within seconds. Every part and detail could be tracked in micro-seconds by scanners at every junction. The computer-controlled robots could fit different options with great efficiency, and paint the car any colour you choose. Different versions of the I6 could roll off the line in Geelong, and into your car.
Imagine ordering your unique, fully custom Falcon (or Focus or Ranger,) and having it rolled off a truck into your driveway a few days later! (Bit longer for those of us on the lucky side of the continent.)

Instead, what have we got? Less, and less choice as the years go by. Same engine in every car, about the only "option" is the colour, and that's limited to a few choices. Boring as batshite interiors, and if there's a choice of two equally boring colours, its determined by your exterior colour selection.

Why? Is it just that most cars are now just mass-market pap? But surely even there is scope for marketing. Young women won't be caught dead wearing the same outfit...

This is not just a lament about "what was." I have always "just accepted" this as part of change and progress. But I have started to wonder why? In every other area we have MORE choice, whether we want it or not.

[LoudPipes]

Variation incurs a whole range of additional costs from R&D, sourcing, warehousing to assembly.
The more uniformed things are the cheaper they are to manufacturer.
The smaller the market and the tighter the profit margins, the less variety you can afford to offer.

[Franco Cozzo]

Same thing when I got my Focus, European RHD markets had optional bixenon HIDs which I couldn't get here in Australia. This was well before the RS Focus came here which has them.

So I imported OEM Bixenon headlight assemblies from Ford Europe, the OEM ballasts and bought a pair of D1S HID globes from JAS Oceania and they just pluged right up to the loom, all it needed was an extra earth on pin 8 of the headlight connector and boom, everything worked perfectly.

If I want it on my car and you have it on another model but won't let me option it up I'm retrofitting it.

It cost me a bit over $2000 all up but I got my lights I wanted.

If the bottom end ever goes its getting the 2.2L bottom end from the UK Mondeo lol.

[dirtyclevo]

its a money game these days. less variety less work for them, more money for them.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Variation incurs a whole range of additional costs from R&D, sourcing, warehousing to assembly

For the most part, that is nolonger the case. Take an extreme example, say a smaller 3.2l economy I6. Yes the R&D would be prohibitive, but sourcing, warehousing, assembly would cost no extra.
Many items would require little actual R&D, or the R&D would already be done by the supplier.

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The more uniformed things are the cheaper they are to manufacturer.

No, not really.
Besides, my point is that it's FAR cheaper NOW, than it was when all the choices were available

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The smaller the market and the tighter the profit margins, the less variety you can afford to offer.

WHY?
My point is that these choices WERE offered, when variety was complicated, labour intensive, and expensive.

Furthermore, in many instances we're talking about items that are already available. Either from the parts bin, or even on different specifications. It's as though they're saying that it's become harder, when it has in fact become much easier.

[malazn mafia]

When 3D Printing in various materials comes to maturity, maybe we can immortalize Falcon, apart from electronic components which need to be sourced from somewhere.

[DRU842]

Choice within models may be smaller but the total breadth of cars available has never been better.
An area could improve 'choice' is 'after modification' & 'component or kit car' approvals.

[turbodewd]

Crazy,

what you see on offer in the showroom floor reflects demand. Most prefer dark interiors and thats what they get. These days Im sick of dark interiors and my next car will have very very light colored interior. Falcon has 2 interior colors which is fine.

If you go over to BMW I believe you can 4 choices. Theres plenty of choice out there.

[cs123]

Vehicle compliance plays a major part in what a manufacturer will offer. Those different variations of the I6 have to be engineered, tested and compliance tested. Same with headlamps. These days warranties are longer and there is little margin for error with designs.

Interiors were always boring as batshit, it was generally the dealerships that offered customised fabrics. You can still do that today if you want to lay down the coin.

[simon varley]

the argument about choice in Australia is complete bollox. I can understand why I can't get a Focus wagon over here, but all the powertrain combinations anyone could possible want are already available in a UK spec car - RHD and eu5 emissions. Now granted it's only CE approved and not ADR approved - you've got to ask the questions. As far as I know Focus and Mondeo etc are type approved here so doesn't that mean we don't need additional approval for new engines? Even if we did, aren't Ford (and GM etc) big enough to go to the guvmint and push them to accept CE approval? That way maybe I could get my manual wagons without having to by Holden or Hyundai models

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Crazy,

what you see on offer in the showroom floor reflects demand.

see - I don't think it does by any means. It reflects what the marketing departments think we want.

given that nobody truly knows why Falcon sales are down (there are lots of theories but nobody knows) how much do I trust marketing? not a lot!

[Dash_XR]

Modify the car yourself, don't be so lazy. Or if you can't be bothered pay someone else to do it.

Unless you expect every car to come in every colour and have any engine you want? I'll have an awd electric orange fiesta with a mid mount lambo v12 and Bentley interior. And it can't be more then 40k.

[Fordman1]

The amount of choice is relative to how the brand of vehicle wants to be seen.

Many Choices and the ability for the customer to personalise :

Eg:

Mini
New Renault vehicles (post 2012) ie : Clio
BMW

Low choices and low ability to Personalise vs Std.

Eg:

Ford
Toyota
Holden
Hyundai

Etc

Brands that want to be seen as premium offer personalisation, those that are after volume offer lower levels of options to minimise complexity in their assembly operations.

[xisled]

The problem you have crazy is you are only looking at Ford. If you are unable to get what you want through Ford. If you have the cash anything is possible.

When buying a new car most peopole look at the dollar value and want the cheapest price possible. What would be the point of having all these options if only a select few ordered.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Same thing when I got my Focus, European RHD markets had optional bixenon HIDs which I couldn't get here in Australia. This was well before the RS Focus came here which has them.

So I imported OEM Bixenon headlight assemblies from Ford Europe, the OEM ballasts and bought a pair of D1S HID globes from JAS Oceania and they just pluged right up to the loom, all it needed was an extra earth on pin 8 of the headlight connector and boom, everything worked perfectly.

If I want it on my car and you have it on another model but won't let me option it up I'm retrofitting it.

It cost me a bit over $2000 all up but I got my lights I wanted.

If the bottom end ever goes its getting the 2.2L bottom end from the UK Mondeo lol.

I hate how so many cars still do not have xenon headlights these days. Wildtrack Ranger 65k and still not even an option of decent headlights.
Having come from the Chrysler with great xenon lights into the Ranger with average halogen lights, sometimes on well lit roads at night I have to double check that my lights are on because you can barely see them lighting up anything ahead.

I'd like to see more engine options on certain models, but I understand why they don't have many anymore. Would of loved a V8 turbo diesel in the Ranger. Even if it's overkill.
As for interior options, personally I'm not overly fussed. I usually just want a dark interior anyway. I know if you go to premium manufactures you can customise pretty much anything in the car.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I hate how so many cars still do not have xenon headlights these days. Wildtrack Ranger 65k and still not even an option of decent headlights.
Having come from the Chrysler with great xenon lights into the Ranger with average halogen lights, sometimes on well lit roads at night I have to double check that my lights are on because you can barely see them lighting up anything ahead.

I'd like to see more engine options on certain models, but I understand why they don't have many anymore. Would of loved a V8 turbo diesel in the Ranger. Even if it's overkill.
As for interior options, personally I'm not overly fussed. I usually just want a dark interior anyway. I know if you go to premium manufactures you can customise pretty much anything in the car.

I'd say Halogens are pretty much unacceptable in this day and age, especially if you've had cars with PROPER HIDs such as OEM fitment ones not HID globe in halogen housings which cause problems, here is an explanation:

http://youtu.be/Y5n38wDe684?t=1m12s

This is the problem with HID globe in halogen reflector:



Bottom picture is of a HID projector.

At best H1s do 1700 lumens in 55W globes like Phillips +100s/Osram Nightbreakers which H1 and H7 are the best type of halogen globes for light, HIDs are around 3000+

If it has H4s, forget it, 1000 lumens, what a total piece of poo those things are.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

For the most part, that is nolonger the case. Take an extreme example, say a smaller 3.2l economy I6. Yes the R&D would be prohibitive, but sourcing, warehousing, assembly would cost no extra.
Many items would require little actual R&D, or the R&D would already be done by the supplier.No, not really.
Besides, my point is that it's FAR cheaper NOW, than it was when all the choices were available
WHY?
My point is that these choices WERE offered, when variety was complicated, labour intensive, and expensive.

Furthermore, in many instances we're talking about items that are already available. Either from the parts bin, or even on different specifications. It's as though they're saying that it's become harder, when it has in fact become much easier.

If you had a real understanding of the cost and complexities of manufacturing in Australia you’d know most of what you’ve written here is pie in the sky nonsense in a competitive environment where every cent counts.
Your ideas may and I only say may, work in an international market place and even than vehicle manufacturers who offer many options make their customers pay through the nose for them.
Variety in manufacturing is an expensive gamble and not one you’d find often in Australia outside of a boutique operator.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'd say Halogens are pretty much unacceptable in this day and age, especially if you've had cars with PROPER HIDs such as OEM fitment ones not HID globe in halogen housings which cause problems,

I had HIDs in my Mazda 6MPS. Were not even close to the performance of the standard AU falcon lighting.

[phild12s131e]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Crazy,

what you see on offer in the showroom floor reflects demand.

Really? Try ordering an upper model twin cab without the tub. Many makers just won't listen that it's a simple process of just not supplying the tub in the first place. There's plenty of them available secondhand with nil wear on them as so many people want to put their own tray etc on them.

[nothin suss]

I'd rather choose my next new vehicle purchase from a selection of 15 manufacturers than 3.
If I want options or mods there's eBay.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cs123

I had HIDs in my Mazda 6MPS. Were not even close to the performance of the standard AU falcon lighting.

I've got them in the Focus and best decision I ever made IMO.

How were they bad? Narrow beam pattern?

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I've got them in the Focus and best decision I ever made IMO.

How were they bad? Narrow beam pattern?

Just poor illumination of the sides of the road. Got them in our Subaru as well, they are better but nothing to rave about.

[Franco Cozzo]

Yeah, I get you, mine are really wide though, it completely illuminates the left side of the road, into the grass to the fence pretty much.

[Davehoos]

People in the industry with Knowledge that lived through the 60-80's would tell you that it was a case of building anything that buyers asked for that could fit on an assembly line without question that the tooling-R/D cost could be recovered.

I was a Holden and Nissan buyer and it annoyed me that not only could you not buy versions sold overseas but in NSW you could not buy versions sold in other states. And that the factory refused to offer options that the body had been constructed to take and had been run on the same assembly line for export.

That changed in mid 1980's. Union and governments planned the future an
and new comers prohibited. With managers coming from direct from university using benchmarking and not experienced workers promoted from the bottom its much easier to have a team negotiate contracts years in advance with the aim to slice of margins around the edges and play each department off against each other.

[Davehoos]

Originally Posted by phild12s131e

Really? Try ordering a---There's plenty of them available secondhand with nil wear on them as so many people want to put their own tray etc on them.

My employer is fleet-we have more than 30 cab chasis utes. Some trays are OK but as they are in demand you have to take anything offered. Not only that most working class vehicles will require extra lights and radio etc.

Several dealers around here make good profit offering mine ready vehicles. why would they give feed back of a demand for these to be factory ready.

If you look at a parts manual from the 70,s you see loads of government required options like water bag carriers and fire extinguishers. these days you get phone cradles that don't and radio entertainment centers that upset most of the other electronics or are uncompatible.

[Franco Cozzo]

I believe with the first BA you could option up 5sp manual and 5.4L on the base model XT?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I believe with the first BA you could option up 5sp manual and 5.4L on the base model XT?

Yes you could

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

If you had a real understanding of the cost and complexities of manufacturing in Australia you’d know most of what you’ve written here is pie in the sky nonsense in a competitive environment where every cent counts.
Your ideas may and I only say may, work in an international market place and even than vehicle manufacturers who offer many options make their customers pay through the nose for them.
Variety in manufacturing is an expensive gamble and not one you’d find often in Australia outside of a boutique operator.

[Crazy Dazz]

I'm NOT just talking about Falcon. Although conceptually it should be easier with a locally produced car. It would still work with imported cars, but the delay might be a killer.

Nor am I talking about variety of cars. Although people who say "variety has never been greater" are wrong. They're too young to remember the variety we did have before the AUD tanked in the 80's, when every manufacturer actually produced a different car, and there were real differences between cars.

I appreciate that in the context of what is NOT available (eg different engines,) it comes down to R&D costs. But there I wonder if we haven't lost the plot somewhere?
In the days where there was no CAD, no CAM, no simulation software, and no electronic tuning, companies could offer multiple engine combinations, and update them with every model. If an engine was available and fitted, they dropped it in. Why does it take a car company years of work, and a hundred million dollars, to achieve what any decent workshop could do in an afternoon?

Part of the problem is obviously "compliance." This also explains why we can't simply buy options and models that are available overseas, including Japan, UK, and other RHD markets. I won't pretend to understand what goes into "compliance." I know what it SHOULD be, but clearly the bureaucrats and lawyers have made it way too complicated. Eviscerating the local car industry was supposed to give us more variety, but that's not going to work if car makers can't be bothered spending the money (apparently) required to make all their cars comply.

At the end of the day, I talking about the ability to pick and choose what options you want on your car. For the amount of money we are required to fork out for new cars, this "take it or leave" attitude ***** me.

Been looking at new cars for my FIL, he wants a wagon, and likes a particular model range because its offers everything he wants. EXCEPT; we want the wagon with this engine, "no that's only available in the sedan." Ok, we'll take that engine in a manual, "that engine is only available in automatic, if you want manual to have to have the other one." Fine, that model is $30k, how much extra for leather seats? (Grandkids.) "No, if you want leather seats you must buy the Platinum Deluxe version, it costs $60k, only comes in automatic, and with the engine you don't want."

[Franco Cozzo]

Some of the silly rules we have in regards to ADRs, for example a lot of Jap Imports had HIDs back in the 90s, think Skyline etc.

Under ADR these require auto levelling device for them to always adjust as you go over bumps etc, where as in Japan they don't, which is rediculous, as my Focus doesn't have auto levellers and I've never been flashed by another car.

I did the same thing with my old man's Mazda 323, Jap Astina had HID light assemblies so I imported them and rewired the headlights to get them to work.

Theres also some good ones which should be in the ADRs, Jap Imports didn't have side intrusion bars, if you import a Jap car its part of the compliance they have to be fitted.