Had my car finance loan payout amount quoted wrong :/

[Jase]

Hi Guys,

Recently I sold one of my cars, prior to doing so I rang the finance company and asked for a payout amount.

I then asked if that amount included any refunds from my loan insurance etc, to which they replied; no, that they had nothing to do with the insurance and I would have to contact my insurer.

Contacted insurance and figured out likely refund amount, no worries.

Now based off the payout figure quoted and the fact that it was not to include any refunds I sold the car reasonably cheap for a quick hassle free sale and cleared the loan, knowing I would have a reasonable insurance refund to come.

A few days later, after funds cleared, I cancelled my all my insurances.

After a while most refunds were in, except for the loan insurance. Rang insurance mob, they said it had been sent back through the finance people.

Rang the finance guys and they are now saying that the insurance refund was included in my pay out amount, and therefore there was no refund.

The refund was quite substantial, ~$5000. I could have quite easily sold the car for more than I did and recovered this amount.

I sent a email to the finance guys asking why I was told that it wasn't included when it infact was, and that I am now out of pocket $5000. They replied via mail, with no contact name, with a break down of costs and said looking at the above figures it is clear your insurance refund was included in the payout amount.

Now I am not sure what do do?
I clearly asked the guy on the phone if the refund was included and he said no.

The payout letter that was sent out at a later date just states the amount, and has no break down of costs, the only breakdown I had seen was in their recent reply to my email.

I cant see anything in any of the documents regarding payout amounts and refunds etc.

Based of the over the phone advice, I made a financial decision, only to be later told their advice was wrong, now I am out of pocked $5k.

I will probably try ring them again next week, but I already know how that will go.

What are my chances of recovering some of this money?
Will there be much point in pursuing it? or will they just keep feeding me the same line?
I could always go to the ombudsmen, but want too see if anyone thinks its worthwhile?

End of the day, the loan in paid out - which is most important. But their advice has cost me a fair amount of money.
They also charged me nearly $2000 in 'Break cost' and 'cancellation fees', which is a bit rude - but thats another story.

Thanks

[I reckon]

ring "that guy" back they probably record all the conversations anyway .

[Jase]

Yeah thats what I thought, they should have a log of when/what was accessed and be able to link it to a recording for when this stuff happens.

I'm not 100% sure on his name, which is my fault, for some reason on my note pad I have 2 names written down. I now know to make sure keep better records of this stuff than I have

[Yellow_Festiva]

What a pain.....

I have had a few arguments about what was said in past calls so I installed an ap on my phone that records all calls. Been useful a few times already.

5k is a lot of coin none the less. Good luck.

[naddis01]

What is the app that you use to do that?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by naddis01

What is the app that you use to do that?

AndroRec Call Recorder. The icon is a green android robot with a red circle in the mid section.

[blackwasp]

this happened to me in 2003 and was quoted wrong amount. i sold car then a week later the finance company rings me to tell me i owed 2300 . i protested and argued but they replied with the encumberance on vehicle will not be lifted until balance payed.
i was ****ed off and not going to pay but i didnt want to ruin the new owners purchase as it wasnt his fault.

[svo supporter]

Some companies record conversations...some don't.....When you ring, generally a pre-recorded message comes over the line saying "this phone call may be recorded for training purposes", or along those lines.


It sucks, but unfortunately there isn't much you can do if there isn't any recordings...It'll be a case of your word against theirs, with you loosing out...

[xisled]

Basically it's not what you are told over the phone it will come down to the contract of the loan. If they owe you money it is a bit different, but that is not the case.

Even if they did say one thing one the phone, they will refer you back to your contract. They will say the person you spoke to made a mistake and will be trained for future calls.

[Itsme]

Lesson learned here is to get a written statement of break down costs from finance company before proceeding, at least this way you actually know where you stand before hand.
You could contact your States Consumer Affair department for advise.

[I reckon]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

AndroRec Call Recorder. The icon is a green android robot with a red circle in the mid section.

Can't see that name on the App Store
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1358544304.232474.jpg

[Matty4]

My guess is that it is an Android based app, hence the name.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Yeah, sorry, Android phone

I'm sure Apple will have something smilar, perhaps just search 'Phone call recorder' or something like that:



I took these screen shots, one with the app and one from the help page with the email address.

It's good for a laugh... I ordered a tablet from Harvey Norman and the dispach centre calls me to ask if I'll be home to accept the tablet. The guy has a thick Indian accent and it was very hard to understand a word he was saying.. then asks "Ok, the address we have is PO Box 187, will you be at that address today?" I tell the guy if he understands that it isn't a house, and that it isn't possible to be there today as it's a PO Box, oh and your courier may also find it hard to deliver there...

His reply.. after a bit of thinking / umming and ahhing...

"So, will you be there tomorrow then?"

[grandpa_spec_F6]

My finance company didn't include 'running costs' in the initial estimate... rang them up and blasted them about it, had asked them 5 times if there were 'any other costs' and they said go jump... no email trail and the calls never happened...

Records calls yourself, tell the operator they are being recorded if it makes you feel better cheap insurance imo

[Peuty]

Slightly off topic, grandpa, do you salary sacrifice your F6 or did you finance it outright?

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Peuty

Slightly off topic, grandpa, do you salary sacrifice your F6 or did you finance it outright?

Salary sacrifice.... have I dun made a boo boo? Is this type of finance.different?

I get about. $5k in tax savings per year doing it through the salary mob.

[mike_nofx]

What I don't get is, in your words you could quite easily have sold your car to cover that $5000 amount.

So Why didnt you? Even if you DID get the extra $5k refund, why short change yourself on the sale of the car.

[Yaw]

Regardless of whether the call was recorded or not, The time you called and asked for the payout amount will have a log on the account as that person would have had to make a note on the account and probably logged on the letter they sent with the payout amount. Demand they investigate what was said with that person.

[XBROO]

Sorry mate but I think . As said in an earlier post, whatever the contract says will be correct. Hear say on a phone dosen't matter if you have recorded or not, isn't a contract. Don't know why this types of firms seem to do this sort of stuff all the time, ever tried paying out a credit card? Again there's amount they tell you over the phone, then when you do it, oh this fee or that fee.

[FGII-XR6]

unless you inform them you are recording the conversation you are breaking the law . anything you record is unusable and could land you behind bars or a lot poorer .
if you made a financial decision based on what you were told ( regardless of what the contract says) you have a case if they were recording the conversation and you can get access to it. when they give you that information they are committing to that payout on those terms, it is called a verbal contract and is legally binding

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What a pain.....

I have had a few arguments about what was said in past calls so I installed an ap on my phone that records all calls. Been useful a few times already.

5k is a lot of coin none the less. Good luck.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

unless you inform them you are recording the conversation you are breaking the law . anything you record is unusable and could land you behind bars or a lot poorer .
if you made a financial decision based on what you were told ( regardless of what the contract says) you have a case if they were recording the conversation and you can get access to it. when they give you that information they are committing to that payout on those terms, it is called a verbal contract and is legally binding

I know 100% that the calls being recorded would be useless unless I warn the other party...

When I record my calls it's more for personal benefit. I'm not ever going to use it for anything other than calls between family and friends etc.

Ever had a call with your wife / mrs or a friend where perhaps you agreed to go somewhere at a certain time etc or had a conversation then the next day you can't agree on who said what?

I have had some interesting conversations on the phone, the sort of conversations where you wouldn't believe it unless you heard it. What prompted me to start recording calls was once I called to have power connected in a regional property that was vacant. I made it clear that they had a whole week, and that it wasn't of any urgency. Connection was 'free'.

I got the bill after 3 months. They charged me an 'out of hours connection fee' of well over $100. When I questioned the fee she explained that no one can dictate to the connection people as to when to go to your house, if they go during the day it's free, if they happen to go after hours you foot the bill.

She assured me that there was to be no refunds. Anyway.. after a little arguing and tranferring to a few people it was removed from my bill... But the way they spoke to me was disgusting and rude.

Anyway... regarding companies that record calls. They will always find those recordings if it is in their favour... I do strongly believe that 100% of calls are recorded by companies that warn about it these days. My mum called her phone company to remove her voicemail and she was convinced that her plan was not the best and that she was better on another deal. She was mis-led and lied to (she wrote down what she was told and remembered it very well), and agreed to handing over her credit card and 'signing up'.

When I learnt of this I called the company and blasted them. Of course, 'they did not record calls that day' so after a lot of arguments mum was put back on her original plan and the money credited to her account. The new sim card is still sitting on the kitchen bench..

It is at times like this that recorded calls are good, just for your own personal benefit. Mum thinks she is stupid and 'mis-understood' what was explained to her, I highly doubt it as she is very educated and her English is 100%.

Oh, and agree that verbal contracts are 100% binding. You can connect to a lot of services on the phone now and they record it as proof. Obtaining the proof (that would only be able to be obtained from the finance company) will be almost impossible.

Cheers!

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

Salary sacrifice.... have I dun made a boo boo? Is this type of finance.different?

I get about. $5k in tax savings per year doing it through the salary mob.

Nah all good mate, I'm looking at doing a similar thing in the near future and are just working out my options...

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Peuty

Nah all good mate, I'm looking at doing a similar thing in the near future and are just working out my options...

Pm me if you want the down low on leasing

[monte.b]

It costs you nothing to go to the Ombudsman ,just do it to stir the pot a bit if nothing else ,never know you might have a win

[JC]

Leasing is only worth it if you earn at least $100k, and you do more than 25000km per year. I lease, and it's probably the first and last time I'll do it.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

For me, sure I save some tax dollars... but having to get approval to spend my own money and being "denied" makes me want to crack skulls. If I want a god damn sun roof who the hell are they to say I cant have one! RAGEFACE!

[Peuty]

What makes you say tat about the kays JC? The provider I'm looking at allows the purchaser to choose their own kays. For a fully maintained lease on a XR6T ute, the quote I have seems extremely reasonable.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Peuty

What makes you say tat about the kays JC? The provider I'm looking at allows the purchaser to choose their own kays. For a fully maintained lease on a XR6T ute, the quote I have seems extremely reasonable.

I'm under the old rules so while it looked attractive at the time, doing the sums now makes me realise that it's pretty marginal for me doing between 15000 and 20000km per year. This is mostly because I have had to up the ongoing costs by $50 per fortnight as they seem to work petrol out on highway cycle rather than city cycle, which meant I was running out of money in the lease account to pay for fuel. Also means I've been stung by 2 (what I consider) steep service charges because the lease company authorises the service costs, not me.

But from a pay a set amount per fortnight, jump in the car & drive it, fill up on fuel card and not have to worry too much about the price of anything, it works OK. And with the new rules of a flat amount (I think) of FBT for under 25,000km, it would probably work out better for me.

So....go into it with your eyes open, and a very good idea of current costs etc, and you should be well armed to make a good decision.

Important things to consider are your current gross and nett salary. Then take off your car costs (fuel, loan payments, rego insurance, servicing, tyres) and that's your post tax and post car nett salary.

Then do the dame with the pre and post tax elements of the lease quote, and see what the post tax and post car nett salary is then.

Example:
Traditional "loan" method of paying for car
Gross salary $1750 per week less tax of $440 and car costs of $260 means you have $1070 to play with after tax and car costs (all figures made up). After 3 years you will own the car.

Lease method of paying for car with pre tax component and post tax FBT
Gross salary $1750 per week less lease payment of $195 and tax of $365 and post tax costs of $80 means you have $1110 to play with after tax and car costs (all figures made up). After 3 years you will owe 45% of the financed cost of the car (in this example, that's a tad over $10k). With any luck, you can simply hand the car back and walk away, and on paper, you've saved roughly $60 for each week you've had the lease - that's $9360 over 3 years.

Of course you can use that saving, and borrow an extra $1k to buy the car at the end of the lease (if you actually managed to save the funds). and then you're worse off than you would have been just buying it in the first place.

But if you hand the car back, then you need to repeat the lease cycle again (whereas with the loan you may keep the car for a few more years) - if you simply turn them over every 3 years, then a lease is a no-brainer and your costs year to year will be roughly the same.

(Car I used in above examples was $18k second hand 6 cyl car, lease of 3 years @7%, finance rate of loan @8.95% over 3 years)

[Jase]

Well, expensive lesson learnt.
Didn't have much hope of getting anything back, but the reply letter was pretty condescending and made me rage

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

What I don't get is, in your words you could quite easily have sold your car to cover that $5000 amount.

So Why didnt you? Even if you DID get the extra $5k refund, why short change yourself on the sale of the car.

Same reason anyone would sell/trade to a dealer. Easy, no test pilots, loan paid out on the spot, and my work is unpredictable so I usually end up out of town when people are keen to look.
The cost/loss wasnt too bad, but obviously now missing that extra cash - prob should have held out and sold privately