Speeding Fine - NSW

loxxr6 · 15-01-2008, 10:47 PM

I seem to have gotten one over the December period but don't recall myself or the g/f as driving at that time.

My question is has anyone here ever successfully disputed one via the fact that they didn't know who was driving? From the time on the notice it looks like I would have been at work then.

Should I even bother? Anyone have any tips on what to do? So far all I can find is an article saying in Vic you can get a stat dec and try and dispute it. I'm unsure if NSW is the same tho?

Macca23 · 15-01-2008, 10:52 PM

You can elect to have your fine reviewed.

there a certin critera you have to meet I think,

NSW Fine Review Page

Have a look through there and see if that helps you.

My guess though if you dont have a clean record for over 10years theres not much chance reviewing it anyway! Never hurts to try, Can you get a photo so you can find out who was drving that way? if it was your car at all?

asusdragon · 15-01-2008, 10:58 PM

they have to produce the photo to you, there should three i think one of the plates, one of the car on the road, and one of the driver might be a good way to find out. Though how much is the fine and is it really worth fighting, i got one while back had two car in the photo was going to fight it but it was only $50 i just paid it. As i knew i was speeding, and well to fight it i would have had to take a day of work to go into the city to fight it now worth it in my view

Fev · 16-01-2008, 08:35 AM

wish my fines were only $50.. they were $79!! lol.. doing around 10 over(stupid M2 camera going west through epping before tunnel[revenue raising anyone?] but 3 points! arg! now i only have 1 as i got another ticket from a week before i didnt even know about

SNB05T · 16-01-2008, 08:40 AM

ahh fev, that camera has got more signs posted than all the strip clubs in kings cross ever will have

hard luck dude.

loxxr6 · 16-01-2008, 09:23 AM

Thanks, I'll check the link to the sdro site.

The fine was on double demerits in December. I had another look at the time of the offence and it was 3 mins after I started work which means I wasn't in the car at the time. Must have been the g/f or someone else.

sgt_doofey · 16-01-2008, 09:48 AM

Get the photo and check to make sure it was actually your car. Mistakes are made some times!

FGII-XR6 · 16-01-2008, 09:57 AM

if you can get a letter from your employer stating you were at work at the time of the offence and a stat dec from you that you do not know who was driving as the car was at home at the time and the keys were available for others to use ( or something to that effect) you should be able to have it overturned.
If the SDRO say no fight it as it is double demirits and that hurts

TadKa · 16-01-2008, 10:09 AM

Yeah dude. I got off one because they put the wrong date on it. I was on that road the day before and the day after but I was certain I wasnt on there the day the ticket stated and I got off it.

Fev · 16-01-2008, 10:10 AM

yes but i didnt see the signs, was too busy concentrating on this damn bus next to me and i hadnt been down the M2 for like a year and a half so i didnt know it was there.. still.. bloody M2..

nods · 16-01-2008, 06:41 PM

try it here in S.A. first time in years they got me going through
the lights at 68ks in a 60 zone $196.00 I could'nt believe it

**redxm** · 16-01-2008, 06:46 PM

As the registered owner you are responsible for the vehicle and who drives it. If you can not remember/prove if someone else was driving then tough bikkies mate, you pay up.

It sucks and it is revenue raising but thats life.

Taxman · 16-01-2008, 09:37 PM

As redxm said as the owner of the vehicle you either do a stat dec giving full details of the driver or you wear it.

If you don't pay the fine then you have to deal with State Revenue and they can cancel your rego and I think your licence (not 100% sure someone will undoubtedly advise on this point) until the fine is paid.

Matty4 · 16-01-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redxm

As the registered owner you are responsible for the vehicle and who drives it. If you can not remember/prove if someone else was driving then tough bikkies mate, you pay up.

It sucks and it is revenue raising but thats life.

Maybe in NSW...but thats rubbish.

I have disputed a couple of camera fines here in Vic that I know weren't mine and got off them. If the Traffic Camera Office (or whatever they're called in your state) can't prove it was you when you state it wasn't you, then they have no option but to dismiss the fine. All you have to say is that it was not you driving, you lent the car to a mate, brother, whatever....he tells you that a couple of his mates took it out and none of them will admit to driving it.

You have attempted to identify the driver but without success. As you know it wasn't you then you won't, in all good conscience, admit to the offence.

Case closed.

Taxman · 16-01-2008, 10:52 PM

Sorry Matty4 Case not closed - as you said you are in Victoria - different rules. One of the biggest problems in Australia is that in nearly every state there are either different rules or different interpretations of the rules. In Victoria you may be able to say "it wasn't me" and get off, but unfortunately here in NSW as my brother has just found out either he identifies the actual driver (his eldest son) and the fine is reissued to the actual driver or he wears the fine and the points - great for revenue raising as now nearly every fine, unless remitted on a technicality like wrong date or 'speeding' through a school zone on a Sunday etc the fine now gets paid.

If disputing a camera fine you now have to prove at your expense that the camera is faulty. If the camera fine is challenged in court the NSW Govt can go into court with the presumption that the camera is working perfectly - it doesn't have to prove it is (recent legislative change).

Now aren't you glad you live in Victoria.

goldfire · 17-01-2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asusdragon

they have to produce the photo to you, there should three i think one of the plates, one of the car on the road, and one of the driver might be a good way to find out. Though how much is the fine and is it really worth fighting, i got one while back had two car in the photo was going to fight it but it was only $50 i just paid it. As i knew i was speeding, and well to fight it i would have had to take a day of work to go into the city to fight it now worth it in my view

I'm 99.99999% certain that 2 car in photo = dead fine. I know cos I got flashed with another car and we where almost dead level, no fine ever came out and I'm pretty sure the camera had only been there 60mins or so.

Rodp · 17-01-2008, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

if you can get a letter from your employer stating you were at work at the time of the offence and a stat dec from you that you do not know who was driving as the car was at home at the time and the keys were available for others to use ( or something to that effect) you should be able to have it overturned.
If the SDRO say no fight it as it is double demirits and that hurts

Not overturned, you still have to nominate who was driving otherwise you still wear the fine. Claiming that you don't know who was driving your car isn't a valid defence.

I think you'll have to go to the third umpire on this one, get a photo, make sure it's actually your car in the first place.

Matty4 · 17-01-2008, 08:50 AM

Taxman,
I reckon you'd be crazy to just accept this situation. Why would you accept a guilty verdict (which is what you are effectively doing by paying the fine) if you are 100% certain it wasn't you and you took all reasonable steps to identify the driver.

What if the cops charged you with a more serious offence, but it wasn't you, and you couldn't categorically prove who it was? Then it is up to them to prove who it was.

I'd love to challenge the fine in court using the argument above. I can't see how you could be found guilty of the offence. It has nothing to do with the accuracy of the camera or whether it was faulty or not. You're only challenging the fact that you were not the driver and you will not plead gulity to an offence you didn't commit.

MITCHAY · 17-01-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nods

try it here in S.A. first time in years they got me going through
the lights at 68ks in a 60 zone $196.00 I could'nt believe it

I got $213 for 105 in an 80 zone and you got that for 8 kays

:

DBourne · 17-01-2008, 09:36 AM

i always laugh at ppl getting caught by speed cameras in NSW.
we have it so good, 3 HUGE signs before a speed camera = if you get caught, you're a dead set dropkick.

go to melbourne where there are no signs or SA where they have redlight / speed camera's in one!

MITCHAY · 17-01-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

i always laugh at ppl getting caught by speed cameras in NSW.
we have it so good, 3 HUGE signs before a speed camera = if you get caught, you're a dead set dropkick.

go to melbourne where there are no signs or SA where they have redlight / speed camera's in one!

Where I work there's a red light/speed camera and the amount of people who get caught is funny as.

A lot are interstate drivers but there's signs and you can see it before you go through it. I have seen people literally just rocket past it

:

Fev · 17-01-2008, 09:59 AM

Speed camera's can determine which car in which lane is speeding. havnt you seen the strips on the road in the direction in which the camera is pointing? these are sensors that use the time it took you to travel over each strip to determine your speed. on a multi lane road they usually look like
_______
|||
__|||___
on the picture the camera has taken it will say which lane you were in

FGII-XR6 · 17-01-2008, 10:05 AM

the SDRO might not overturn it but most magistrates will if you have proof you were not driving . the law may state that you have to provide the details of the driver but magistrated have discressionary powers in these matters. I would get a stat dec from your employer and take it to court

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Not overturned, you still have to nominate who was driving otherwise you still wear the fine. Claiming that you don't know who was driving your car isn't a valid defence.

I think you'll have to go to the third umpire on this one, get a photo, make sure it's actually your car in the first place.

Taxman · 17-01-2008, 05:25 PM

"Taxman,
I reckon you'd be crazy to just accept this situation. Why would you accept a guilty verdict (which is what you are effectively doing by paying the fine) if you are 100% certain it wasn't you and you took all reasonable steps to identify the driver.

What if the cops charged you with a more serious offence, but it wasn't you, and you couldn't categorically prove who it was? Then it is up to them to prove who it was.

I'd love to challenge the fine in court using the argument above. I can't see how you could be found guilty of the offence. It has nothing to do with the accuracy of the camera or whether it was faulty or not. You're only challenging the fact that you were not the driver and you will not plead guilty to an offence you didn't commit.

Matty4

All well and good for your opinion, but you have mixed up two different scenarios:-
1. Camera Offences - the legislation (not everyone's opinions) here in NSW says either you nominate the driver or you wear the fine. The law holds you as the owner responsible for knowing who is driving your car. If it was at a mechanic's then you nominate the mechanic or the car dealers workshop and let them sort it out. If you didn't know who was driving it without your permission then why hadn't you reported it as stolen. The reality is that most of these "It wasn't me" are bullshit and the legislation has been drafted for camera offences to prevent this situation. I don't know about you but nobody but nobody drives my vehicles without me knowing about it. In summation the law HERE is nominate or wear it, No ifs, and, or buts. Contesting it you are wasting everyone's time including your own.

2.) A police offence is a totally different matter to a camera infringement. As you indicated if it was a serious matter, the police on the scene would take whatever steps they considered necessary to correctly identify those involved and as you indicated a very serious matter in all probability you would undoubtedly find yourself being invited to accompany them for a ride to the police station and find yourself before a magistrate in the morning. As such, not much of a problem for identification of who was responsible.

You could challange the matter in a NSW court by saying, "It wasn't Me" but wouldn't get you far as the magistrates next question would then be, "Who was it?" I have seen would be smarties try this trick, the magistrates are not amused - they usually get stuck with the fine (sometimes increased) + demerit points + court costs + a loss of a days wages + the embarasement of the magistrate making them look like a fool in front of the court.

Usually cheaper, less embarasement to nominate the driver (let them wear the fine and the points - after all it was their stupidity getting caught speeding) or as in a lot of cases it actually was you (the owner/driver) so show some intestinal fortitude put up, shutup and wear it.

May not be pleasant but that is life in NSW.

eb_5litre · 17-01-2008, 05:32 PM

My mate got a speeding fine from a tunnel camera in Sydney saying he was doing 27k over limit in November. Trouble is he hadnt been to Sydney since April and hadnt given the car to anybody. He wasnt giving them $11 to prove something he already knew so he just made a phonecall and got them to verify it wasnt his vehicle over the phone.

Its good to see justice was served though............

gz1 · 20-02-2008, 09:38 PM

Just got one of those "Penalty Notice" thingos in the mail tonight.
Says I was recored by a camera doing 71k in a 60 zone.
Only trouble is that the area stated is King Georges rd Beverly Hills and I never go anywhere near that area. I live and work on the north side, way north of the bridge, more than 30 k's as the crow flies.
Further more the time shown is 4:54 PM. I don't finish work till 5:00.
I don't know the area there at all but I would imagine at 4:54 PM on a Wednesday afternoon, King Georges Rd would be fairly busy and if anything like the rest of Sydney roads would be very hard to do 71km/hr.
Two questions, Firstly can anyone that lives in that area confirm how busy King Georges Rd is between Edgbaston Rd and Stoney creek rd?
and does anyone have any idea how to fight this? It seems there is no option to ask for the photo unless you want to take it to court. The only options listed on the form are to nominate someone else, say you sold the car before, pay the fine or go to court.

Nostalgia · 20-02-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz1

Just got one of those "Penalty Notice" thingos in the mail tonight.
Says I was recored by a camera doing 71k in a 60 zone.
Only trouble is that the area stated is King Georges rd Beverly Hills and I never go anywhere near that area. I live and work on the north side, way north of the bridge, more than 30 k's as the crow flies.
Further more the time shown is 4:54 PM. I don't finish work till 5:00.
I don't know the area there at all but I would imagine at 4:54 PM on a Wednesday afternoon, King Georges Rd would be fairly busy and if anything like the rest of Sydney roads would be very hard to do 71km/hr.
Two questions, Firstly can anyone that lives in that area confirm how busy King Georges Rd is between Edgbaston Rd and Stoney creek rd?
and does anyone have any idea how to fight this? It seems there is no option to ask for the photo unless you want to take it to court. The only options listed on the form are to nominate someone else, say you sold the car before, pay the fine or go to court.

Im pretty sure it is your legal right to ask for the photo mate. They may want you to pay for it though !

Airmon · 20-02-2008, 09:44 PM

I hate that part of King Georges Rd and have always gone under the limit down it, it just seems like a tight road to me so I'm always doing under 60 and it does get fairly busy in peak hour.

JC · 20-02-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz1

Just got one of those "Penalty Notice" thingos in the mail tonight.
Says I was recored by a camera doing 71k in a 60 zone.
Only trouble is that the area stated is King Georges rd Beverly Hills and I never go anywhere near that area. I live and work on the north side, way north of the bridge, more than 30 k's as the crow flies.
Further more the time shown is 4:54 PM. I don't finish work till 5:00.
I don't know the area there at all but I would imagine at 4:54 PM on a Wednesday afternoon, King Georges Rd would be fairly busy and if anything like the rest of Sydney roads would be very hard to do 71km/hr.
Two questions, Firstly can anyone that lives in that area confirm how busy King Georges Rd is between Edgbaston Rd and Stoney creek rd?
and does anyone have any idea how to fight this? It seems there is no option to ask for the photo unless you want to take it to court. The only options listed on the form are to nominate someone else, say you sold the car before, pay the fine or go to court.

Plate theft and plate copying are pretty common these days, as are car identification mistakes by the RTA. NSW plates used to be 3 letters, 3 numbers, but are now 2/2/2, and as 1s can look like Is, and Os like 0s and 4s like As, it could be that they identified the car incorrectly. I would ask for the photos and if it's not even your car in the photo (or ring up and confirm make and model of car), then take it to court. You should win, including costs.

Rodp · 21-02-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz1

Two questions, Firstly can anyone that lives in that area confirm how busy King Georges Rd is between Edgbaston Rd and Stoney creek rd?
and does anyone have any idea how to fight this? It seems there is no option to ask for the photo unless you want to take it to court. The only options listed on the form are to nominate someone else, say you sold the car before, pay the fine or go to court.

You could easily reach that speed on King Georges at 5pm, particularly if you were in pole position at the lights beforehand.

I'd be asking for the photo, it's your only sensible option at this point if you're convinced it would be impossible for you to be there. I don't even think it would require a court visit to fight it if it's obvious in the photo that it's not your car.