Dealer tactics

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b0son

Fair point, the profitability of one yard vs another can vary wildly, and perhaps for some, RRP isn't enough.

I suspect it doesn't help that there is a chasm between RRP and fleet/corporate pricing. Private buyers cant help but feel ripped off when they know person X got a 10% discount just because of where they work. It gives the impression of VERY flexible margins.

There is also the comparison of new to used and of course, in the case of new, manufacturer promotions. There is no such thing as RRP for second hand cars.

You do also realise that is there is a 20% factory offer to, for example, giraffe herders with an ABN, that the 20% does not come off the dealers margin.

N.B. All ABN holders get about 10% discount as the GST is claimable.

[Rodge]

Yeah I had the your wiper blades need replacing call too and it was $137 + GST for my Merc but they were nearly 6 years old and I happen to know the dealership pays a $70,000 a month lease on the state of the art $12 million dollar service facility which includes an enormous customer lounge that's kitted out like the lobby in a 5 star hotel so that makes the pain a bit easier to bear ...not trying to defend dealers who try and upsell you stuff you don't need but just adding a different perspective based on very recent experience...

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Rodge

At the end of the day it costs huge money to establish a modern franchised dealership, often serveral million dollars and that's before purchasing the stock.

The salesmen need to be paid, the sales manager, the Dealer principal, there's power, lease charges on the premises, admin staff e.t.c.e.t.c.

There's always been a reasonably sizeable difference between the wholesale value of a vehicle and its retail, their simply has to be otherwise the dealership couldn't exist to service one's needs.

I agree that's the reality of the situation. All businesses exist to make a profit.

Which leads me onto a tangent: why do we need car dealers at all? Why can't we simply buy direct from the manufacturer? That would undoubtedly save us a lot of cash.

[Rodge]

Nobody to take your trade-in, arrange finance and insurance and besides you'd miss out on seeing the pretty young sexy girl selling you the window tint and that special car polish which means you never need to clean your car again Who would service your car and arrange warranty repairs for you ?

[XBROO]

I can't believe this, first I had to get used to police being human, now you're telling me dealers and carsales people are too?

[SSVPom]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yeah I had the your wiper blades need replacing call too and it was $137 + GST for my Merc but they were nearly 6 years old and I happen to know the dealership pays a $70,000 a month lease on the state of the art $12 million dollar service facility which includes an enormous customer lounge that's kitted out like the lobby in a 5 star hotel so that makes the pain a bit easier to bear ...not trying to defend dealers who try and upsell you stuff you don't need but just adding a different perspective based on very recent experience...

You could still see in the rain with 6 year old wiper blades ??!

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by flappist

Of course you bought a FPV GT not a Bentley GT.

You WILL have to prove you have the money to be taken for a look at an offshore island or DD buying a TV studio.

Big boys rules........

I think its all about perception.......if you arrived at the dealer driving a Bentley to look at a FPV I would expect no probs getting a test drive......for me rocking up to a dealership in an old school genuine GTHO has always granted me an instant qualification for a FPV test drive, even when wearing a scruffy t shirt, tatty shorts and thongs!

Cheers Mick

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I can't believe this, first I had to get used to police being human, now you're telling me dealers and carsales people are too?

Yeap and for homework tonight you need to get your head around the fact that even, Dentists, Accountants, Real Estate Agents, Life Insurance salespeople, and yes even Politicians and Lawyers have bills to pay and kids to feed

Even Oral Surgeon's are human too, I'll keep repeating this to myself over and over again on Friday when I have to take my wife in to see one for a tricky problem with one of her teeth. Gee those guys know how to drill you a new one, and i'm not talking about in the mouth either

You could still see in the rain with 6 year old wiper blades ??!

Yeap, went through a massive storm with them and they were still working fine. German made mate. I do have some sympathy though with paying those sort of Euro prices on a Golf, doesn't quite seem right. Maybe time for him to shop around some more ?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yeap, went through a massive storm with them and they were still working fine. German made mate.

Ve haff vays oft makink vor vindscreen clar........

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Nobody to take your trade-in, arrange finance and insurance

I'd sell my car privately and arrange finance and insurance myself.

Originally Posted by Rodge

and besides you'd miss out on seeing the pretty young sexy girl selling you the window tint and that special car polish which means you never need to clean your car again

Originally Posted by Rodge

Who would service your car and arrange warranty repairs for you ?

Granted, there's still a use for the service department, but I just think that the sales department is a bit redundant - at least for me. The car sells itself as far as I'm concerned. If I walk in to a dealership I'll know exactly what I want. I may as well buy it online, as it were, straight from Ford if possible, to cut out the middle man making money on the sale of my car. I don't need the services of a salesman to "assist" me in making my purchasing decision, so why should I pay for a service I don't need?

I wish manufacturers would have an online store, as it were, so customers who know exactly what they want can place their order and check the options box and pay for the car online, then have it delivered to their door.

[Rodge]

^^ In my experience there's nothing quite like the experience of selling your car privatly to give you the chance to walk in the car salesman's shoes's and find out what's its like to deal with all the tyre kickers out there.

The reality is it can take many months, often longer to sell a car privatly at a fair price and there's often a heck of a lot of tyre kickers to deal with before you get to that one genuine buyer who has the money, doesn't need finance or a trade-in and is happy to buy privatly. The VAST majority of buyers of a late model car will have a trade-in and a majority will want finance, those two things are a major impediment to selling a high / moderate value car privatly.

What you're suggesting is fine in theory, but IMO I think there will always be a substaintial percentage of the population who want the convienience of doing business with a motor vehicle dealer, besides internet car sites like www.carsales.com.au have already made the market more transparent and efficient for those that want to use the internet to hunt out a bargain. Ready comparisons between similar cars at different dealers and in different states have never been easier.

[wrongwaynorris]

And other quite valid reasons such as single women NOT wanting all unsundry knowing that they are indeed single and living alone , NOT wanting thieves casing your joint , fielding endless calls from tyre kickers , waiting in for people who never show up , handling test pilots who want nothing but to drive the car with NO intention whatsoever of ever buying it , an instant transaction on the day ( drive in with your old car drive out with the new one ) , not having to deal with someone with buyers remorse and making out things were not as described and wanting their money back , not seeing dealer drive off on an appraisal drive never to see your car ever again and I could go on and on .

[wrongwaynorris]

" Even Oral Surgeon's are human too, I'll keep repeating this to myself over and over again on Friday when I have to take my wife in to see one for a tricky problem with one of her teeth. Gee those guys know how to drill you a new one, and i'm not talking about in the mouth either "

Easy solution Rodge , tell your wife when she goes in to grab his balls , squeeze them gently and say these 10 simple words , " Now we're NOT going to hurt each other are we "

[Rodge]

^^

[ShootsWithFilm]

Howdy,

I am going to ask here (instead of starting a new thread), but I am not sure if this is bad dealer tactics or not.

I have been looking at New and demo Territory's of late. When discussing a particular Territory Demo that I was keen on (right colour), the dealer advised me that all the extras on the car (wind deflectors, bonnet protector, dust shield, cargo mat) would be taken off, or I could pay extra for them, up and above the listed price they had on it.

Is this normal? Kind of seems a bit weird to me.

(PS, they were quite obviously trying to sabotage the sale of the demo - they must have new sale targets to meet).

[GTPete]

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

Howdy,

I am going to ask here (instead of starting a new thread), but I am not sure if this is bad dealer tactics or not.

I have been looking at New and demo Territory's of late. When discussing a particular Territory Demo that I was keen on (right colour), the dealer advised me that all the extras on the car (wind deflectors, bonnet protector, dust shield, cargo mat) would be taken off, or I could pay extra for them, up and above the listed price they had on it.

Is this normal? Kind of seems a bit weird to me.

(PS, they were quite obviously trying to sabotage the sale of the demo - they must have new sale targets to meet).

They may not want to sell it yet, if your not in a hurry you can try and arrange to buy the car after a set amount of demo KM's or time has been clocked up. Leave a deposit now and when the car is ready you inspect it and complete the purchase.

[ShootsWithFilm]

Originally Posted by GTPete

They may not want to sell it yet, if your not in a hurry you can try and arrange to buy the car after a set amount of demo KM's or time has been clocked up. Leave a deposit now and when the car is ready and you can save a fair amount of retail.

Hah! The thing has over 5000 k's on it. I would have thought that was a lo of K's on it for a Demo (in my opinion).

No, they were quite obvious in the way that they did there sums - they wanted to sell me a new one.

[jmac]

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

Howdy,

I am going to ask here (instead of starting a new thread), but I am not sure if this is bad dealer tactics or not.

I have been looking at New and demo Territory's of late. When discussing a particular Territory Demo that I was keen on (right colour), the dealer advised me that all the extras on the car (wind deflectors, bonnet protector, dust shield, cargo mat) would be taken off, or I could pay extra for them, up and above the listed price they had on it.

Is this normal? Kind of seems a bit weird to me.

(PS, they were quite obviously trying to sabotage the sale of the demo - they must have new sale targets to meet).

Tell em to EAD. The sale has to work for you. Else just speak to one of his mates that aren't hitting targets lol

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[ShootsWithFilm]

Originally Posted by jmac

Tell em to EAD. The sale has to work for you. Else just speak to one of his mates that aren't hitting targets lol

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

OK, you got me on that one....EAD? But yes, I won't be speaking with the dealer anytime soon about any cars. A very weird experience - we basically had a 'Buy the car tonight and we talk prices', even with the new Terri's they had in stock (which non fitted my colour preferences).

[Rodge]

Just name your terms and if you want the gear you've described tell em it stays on the vehicle or you'll walk. If a car is presented with options attached at an advertised price it may be a breech of the Fair Trading Act for them to refuse to sell you the vehicle at the advertised price. (Misrepresentation springs readily to mind). Then again as vitually nobody pays the asking price on the window that's probably not all that relevant.
The gear you've mentioned isn't all that expensive.

Imagine how poeple would feel if they walked into a dealer and they said, you have to pay extra for the tow bar that's attached too that vehicle otherwise it comes off, really this is quite absurd isn't it and is small minded pettiness on the dealership's part. I'd flick the dealer principal an e.mail venting your dis-pleasure at such tactics if I were you and ask if he's aware that such tactics are being used at his dealership ?

Other thoughts... really its poor presentation skills, customer should be given the option of the attachments for free in my opinion... I would have thought you should ask yourself if you're dealing with the right dealer, if they're like this before the sale what will they be like when there's problems to be dealt with later ???...my 2 cents

[ShootsWithFilm]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Just name your terms and if you want the gear you've described tell em it stays on the vehicle or you'll walk. If a car is presented with options attached at an advertised price it may be a breech of the Fair Trading Act for them to refuse to sell you the vehicle at the advertised price. (Misrepresentation springs readily to mind). Then again as vitually nobody pays the asking price on the window that's probably not all that relevant.
The gear you've mentioned isn't all that expensive.

Imagine how poeple would feel if they walked into a dealer and they said, you have to pay extra for the tow bar that's attached too that vehicle otherwise it comes off, really this is quite absurd isn't it and is small minded pettiness on the dealership's part. I'd flick the dealer principal an e.mail venting your dis-pleasure at such tactics if I were you and ask if he's aware that such tactics are being used at his dealership ?

Other thoughts... really its poor presentation skills, customer should be given the option of the attachments for free in my opinion... I would have thought you should ask yourself if you're dealing with the right dealer, if they're like this before the sale what will they be like when there's problems to be dealt with later ???...my 2 cents

Oh, don't worry about that - this particular dealer has already been relegated to the recycle bin. I just got a very bad vibe by the way they dealt with us.

While my trade is not overly great (series 1 AU 170K on the clock), the really low balled it. They then rabbited on about ‘no margins any more’. They were reluctant to talk figures until we were ‘serious’ (I.E, the order pad was open and being filled out) - The price they gave me was the sticker price minus the trade in and when asked if there was any deal room, the response was ‘a couple of hundred’ (we are looking at the current 2012 plate clearance @ the 2.9% finance).

It very much felt like any sale would be done on THEIR terms – so they must be having a good month! The bonus for us is that we have no real pressing need to buy something now – if there is no deal room, no biggy, we just walk away and look again in a month or two. The problem for this particular dealer is that we will be looking at their yard with a bit of trepidation, so they have more than likely lost out on a sale.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

It very much felt like any sale would be done on THEIR terms – so they must be having a good month!

Funny that, but a week or two later when there's been no interest in the car, he'll be calling you back to see if you're 'ready to do a deal'.... 'the time to do a deal was when I was there last week... byeee'

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

Oh, don't worry about that - this particular dealer has already been relegated to the recycle bin. I just got a very bad vibe by the way they dealt with us.

While my trade is not overly great (series 1 AU 170K on the clock), the really low balled it. They then rabbited on about ‘no margins any more’. They were reluctant to talk figures until we were ‘serious’ (I.E, the order pad was open and being filled out) - The price they gave me was the sticker price minus the trade in and when asked if there was any deal room, the response was ‘a couple of hundred’ (we are looking at the current 2012 plate clearance @ the 2.9% finance).

It very much felt like any sale would be done on THEIR terms – so they must be having a good month! The bonus for us is that we have no real pressing need to buy something now – if there is no deal room, no biggy, we just walk away and look again in a month or two. The problem for this particular dealer is that we will be looking at their yard with a bit of trepidation, so they have more than likely lost out on a sale.

You're trading up a long way and are financing the vehicle so you're in the drivers seat mate. If you can't get a deal you like just bide you time till something that's feels right to you comes up. No hurry buddy. Jump on www.carsales.com.au and flick 3 or 4 e.mails to different dealers asking for an indicative change-over subject to you inspecting their vehicle and vice-versa.

Good way to find out who's keen to do a good fair and square deal and saves hearing an awful lot of un-necessary "talk"

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

Howdy,

I am going to ask here (instead of starting a new thread), but I am not sure if this is bad dealer tactics or not.

I have been looking at New and demo Territory's of late. When discussing a particular Territory Demo that I was keen on (right colour), the dealer advised me that all the extras on the car (wind deflectors, bonnet protector, dust shield, cargo mat) would be taken off, or I could pay extra for them, up and above the listed price they had on it.

Is this normal? Kind of seems a bit weird to me.

(PS, they were quite obviously trying to sabotage the sale of the demo - they must have new sale targets to meet).

Tell em to get stuffed, if you walked in and your trade-in had numerous accessories they wont give you any extra for it so why should you pay for the extra stuff on their car.
All of that stuff would have come from their parts dept. which would be written off as an expense anyway so they arent losing anything.

[ShootsWithFilm]

Originally Posted by b0son

Funny that, but a week or two later when there's been no interest in the car, he'll be calling you back to see if you're 'ready to do a deal'.... 'the time to do a deal was when I was there last week... byeee'

Oh yeah - wouldn't suprise me. Tried to do a deal with the same dealer 8 years ago when I bought the AU (which I ended up buying from a different dealer). Had them on the phone at one stage saying the Sales guy was in tears. Actually, I have tried to do a deal with them on 4 occassions over the last 20 years and only once has it come through. Maybe i am the problem, I don't know

Originally Posted by Rodge

You're trading up a long way and are financing the vehicle so you're in the drivers seat mate. If you can't get a deal you like just bide you time till something that's feels right to you comes up. No hurry buddy. Jump on www.carsales.com.au and flick 3 or 4 e.mails to different dealers asking for an indicative change-over subject to you inspecting their vehicle and vice-versa.

Good way to find out who's keen to do a good fair and square deal and saves hearing an awful lot of un-necessary "talk"

Don't worry, I have had plenty of interest and have spoken to most of the dealers in Adelaide in the last 24 hours - yes there is talk, it will be interesting to see if this is followed up with action.

Cheers everyone for your responses - at least I don't feel like I am missing the big picture here!

[Gadgetman]

I bought a Ralph Lauren Polo last october for $99 dollars from Myer reduced from $120. Comfortable, cotton. Feels great wearing it till I went to Myer's last week and it was $55 bucks for the same shirt during the January sale. Maybe I should start all Myer sales staff are liers, rouges and vegabonds? Yeah that's right they are all deviates.

[Rodge]

You do realise that sales on summer clothes start in late January

[Yellow_Festiva]

Thought I would add to this thread after doing a bit of car shopping today with a mate. More for a bit of a laugh really (the thread, not the car shopping)....

He is set on an I30 Auto in petrol... may be swayed to a Focus if we find one. He is buying used with average km.

Go to Parramatta rd, start entering a few used car yards / dealers.

Used car yard 1:

Told them what we wanted...

"We have 2 over there" Start walking across. Um, these are both manual mate... and Diesel.

"The diesel is what you want, 4.1l per 100" We explain that it will be a city car, doing mostly short trips of only a few km and question how those conditions suit a diesel engine (I had told my mate petrol would be a better option).. forgetting the fact it's a manual anyway.

"Nah, no problem at all! These are sold all over Europe and all they do is short city trips over there, besides it has a Renault engine (really????). Common rail diesel.. means you can treat it the same as petrol."

We thank him for his time and start to walk out. He calls us back to show us a Civic sedan. We already explained during the I30 chit chat that the hatch is needed to carry large stuff with the seats down......

Ok Car yard number 2:

Told them what we wanted...

"We have 2 over there" Start walking across. Um, ok... now we are getting somewhere! Auto, Petrol etc. However priced a little out of his range.

He suggests Corolla / Swift etc. Corolla was near new and also too expensive, Swift was near new, but the hatch area was way too small.

We thanked him for his time and walked off... Passing an pretty rare Falcon on the way out.

Ok Car yard number 3:

Saw what we wanted and began opening doors and looking around. Actually thought the yard was shut - however the office door still had 'open' on it and we could see some movement behind the tinted glass.

Yard was void other than another bloke dressed in a casual shirt and shorts closing the hatch of another car.

After 5 minutes we are about to leave. Bloke in casual wear approaches us:

"Is there anything I can help you with today?"... right, now we are getting somewhere.

Before we start talking he says:

"I see you're keen on the I30, great car. Hyundai sold over a million of them last year here... most popular small car in Australia, we sell heaps of them."

Ok... I kept my trap shut this time and let him dig a bigger hole.

"Yeah this one has very low km (40k km), was hardly used. Still had factory tyres, means it has had a very easy life"

I'm looking at the car... yup, 3 Hankooks and 1 Dunlop with 90% tread. What did this car do, aquaplane the whole time?

He left us alone to serve some other customers..... During that time I found mis-aligned panels, touch-up paint galore, over-spray etc.

Decided to leave that one alone... So we see a LV Focus Mk1, LX model. Auto, petrol. Hmmm ok, something I'm more familier with. Proceed to inspect.

Salesperson returns and starts his speil:

"This is the top of the line model, Cruise control, Bluetooth, USB input and triptronic padel shift...."

Ok... I couldn't bite my tongue any longer... I said, wow, not bad, to which he replied, yeah, 'top of the line'.

So, I called him to the passenger side and asked him to show me how the Bluetooth and USB work. He sat in the passenger seat and started to fidget.. opening this and that looking for stuff that I know don't bloody exist in this model. Lets just not even bother with the 'paddle shift'....

"Umm it us usually in the centre console" Opens it a few times.. opens the glove box (misses the earphone AUX jack that is staring him in the face).

I interupt, explain to him that a car with bluetooth would generally have it integrated in the radio, with green and red phone buttons or something similar. He then agreed that perhaps this model doesn't have bluetooth.

Poor bugger kept looking for the USB input. Looked into the centre console a 4th time. Then opened the glovebox. Finally saw the round 3.5mm hole and pointed to it.

"There it is, I knew it was here somewhere!, see, USB input"... I say WOW, a round USB socket, never seen those ones before! It was a bit of a joke.. but then:

"Yeah, all the new cars are going to round USB plugs, not like the old ones".

Ok.. we had had enough and thanked him for his time.

The funny thing is there are people who have no clue about cars and will take what these guys say as gospel!

Don't know whats more funny, the BS I heard in general, the unique Falcon yard number 2 had for sale or the car we saw on the way home with the 3 LED encased cameras stuck to the rear of their car!

[GREGL]

Shopping trolley paranoia . No mongrels gonna get away with touching the commodore Lol

[Chrismaz]

Originally Posted by AndyXR6T

My local ford uses the best "tactic" when buying one of their cars.
They have a very attractive and persuasive saleswoman selling the optional extras package. After purchasing your car you sit down with her in her office and she becomes your best friend telling you that you need these options.... It was very difficult trying to say no paint protection and headrest DVDs lol

lol .... same at my local FPV dealership .... and it worked! ... haha