Unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing

[BHDOGS]

Indeed but what is evil or madness to one person is religion to another which is why one rigid system will never work regardless of it being communism or democracy humans arnt meant to be constrained in this way anarchy and destabilization will always result regardless of the system. An obvious dictator might hasten the end as people see an obvious oppressor or the slow degradation of a system like in America the end is always inevitable.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by castellan

I agree that could be so, but would a person know more about things that never did work for himself in the real world.
I have never come across one that did that's for sure and it does not matter how smart they are because if they have never done it how would they really know anything at all about it all.
I say it's impossable that they could work just as hard, as there is much more to it all, when you are the one who calles all the shots and carrys the weight of everything and i know who is on the easy road with bugger all to worry about.
Yes i am the one who rides on the horse because no one has that position to ride it but me, because i am the one who pays them there wage.

There are many people in many trades/professions/jobs who are smart, dedicated & work hard for their employers, for you to deny this just shows your arrogance or ignorance which ever is the case.

Just because you run a business does not mean you are smarter, I use to have my own business once but gave it up as too much competition to financially maintain a viable living out of it so I chose to pursue my profession as an employee.

[Auslandau]

Just a couple of points ......

A good boss employs smart people. A smart boss employs people smarter than them.

Good and dedicated employees are worth every penny and no employer would jeopardize the loss of a great employee.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

It is interesting I here that a lot but the fact is the worker is still a person without a boss that needs feeding and maintaining and if the boss doesn't employer the worker he will just take what he needs anyway ur precious capitalism has a strong focus on maintaing the status of the rich backed but an increasingly expensive legal system that brings no justice except to those with money the revolution is coming capitalism always leads to dictatorship only these days it's money dictatorship not political the sooner the regular folk realism there being screwed the the quicker we can get rid of this two party monopoly joke that runs this country. And get back to basics. It's already happening the gradual unrest of the teenage massages is rising there disslusionment with a system that demands they conform to a rigid monetary system or die is disheartening and one of the biggest cons ever pulled on humans.

Erm... You're not related to Arthur Scargill are you

[castellan]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Unionism everywhere seems to get S_it thrown at them, no mater which country, however
I think we all should be grateful for the way FORD HQ and the Unions sat down and nutted out a deal to save the Parent Company.
Without this, we'd have no brand to support.
We just need more of this communication between Bosses and Unions to ensure we can all move forward. Arrogance can be pointed out on both sides, if you look at it, the unions see bosses not willing to give up Huge bonuses/wages, and bosses not wanting to pay higher wages due to sales etc.
Open Communication will always be a win-win as we've seen by resurgence of the Mighty Blue Oval.

It point's to what all unions should of been doing all along, looking after all conserend not just one sided doppy foolishness ignorance.

I don't want to destroy Unions i want to show them the way forward so all will have admiration for them not dread or fear or even hate.

Unions in Germany, Denmark, etc wipe the floor with our backward doppy communistic half wit Unions.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by trublu

There are many people in many trades/professions/jobs who are smart, dedicated & work hard for their employers, for you to deny this just shows your arrogance or ignorance which ever is the case.

Just because you run a business does not mean you are smarter, I use to have my own business once but gave it up as too much competition to financially maintain a viable living out of it so I chose to pursue my profession as an employee.

But i agreed it can be so, nothing to do with ignorance or arrogance.
I am smarter you know because i work for another now as well. and he is the poor bugger that has to hold the cards.
But i am semi retired now.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by castellan

It point's to what all unions should of been doing all along, looking after all conserend not just one sided doppy foolishness ignorance.

I don't want to destroy Unions i want to show them the way forward so all will have admiration for them not dread or fear or even hate.

Unions in Germany, Denmark, etc wipe the floor with our backward doppy communistic half wit Unions.

We also need to remember, that Most Bosses/Employers already have preconceived idea's of what Unions are about.
Why should it just be the unions doing this all the time, why don't Bosses extend their Hand for a change? Why don't Bosses have open book policy's on their business, showing everything from wages to cash flow to employee's?

It all comes back to communication. It's needed by BOTH sides.

[Auslandau]

I dont understand why a company would open their books to the employees? What would be the benefit? So they can go .... "Look at all the money they make so give me more ..... " because as we all know ....... all bosses and companies are really really rich

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Why don't Bosses have open book policy's on their business, showing everything from wages to cash flow to employee's?

Why should they? Have the employees risked their capital for the benefit of the business? Why should they get any say in how much profit the business makes?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Why don't Bosses have open book policy's on their business, showing everything from wages to cash flow to employee's?

In theory this could be done but, depending the number of employees, the Boss would waste hours explaining numbers to staff (or Team Members' in PC speak.)
Who probably wouldn't really be interested anyway in what it costs to run a business on a day to day basis.

If you converted the time spent at work, the costs involved, and the amount you take home each week (after tax) into an hourly rate, most small business owners would probably be earning less per hour than their highest paid employees.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

In theory this could be done but, depending the number of employees, the Boss would waste hours explaining numbers to staff (or Team Members' in PC speak.)
Who probably wouldn't really be interested anyway in what it costs to run a business on a day to day basis.

If you converted the time spent at work, the costs involved, and the amount you take home each week (after tax) into an hourly rate, most small business owners would probably be earning less per hour than their highest paid employees.

It would then have to go both ways!

Before I give an employee a pay increase, I want to see there bank statement to see if they gamble, smoke, drink, drive a V8 or spend hours at the pub.

Its only right to see if the money is going towards good ..... or evil

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by ivorya

We also need to remember, that Most Bosses/Employers already have preconceived idea's of what Unions are about.
Why should it just be the unions doing this all the time, why don't Bosses extend their Hand for a change? Why don't Bosses have open book policy's on their business, showing everything from wages to cash flow to employee's?

It all comes back to communication. It's needed by BOTH sides.

Personally I don't think employees have any rights to know what their employer earns in profits, but the big companies have always posted their profits.

What I can't understand being discussed here is that people here believe all unions are out to get the bosses & visa versa, far from the truth, you be surprised how well the unions & companies co-operate with each other, Yea you do get the odd militant union & rogue business now & then.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by trublu

Personally I don't think employees have any rights to know what their employer earns in profits, but the big companies have always posted their profits.

What I can't understand being discussed here is that people here believe all unions are out to get the bosses & visa versa, far from the truth, you be surprised how well the unions & companies co-operate with each other, Yea you do get the odd militant union & rogue business now & then.

Pretty much this. If you're not a publicly listed company (and even then I'm ot sure about the law behind it), you have no legal requirement to post your profits. The only reason listed companies need to is because they need to provide to their investors (shareholders) that they are providing a return on their money and turning a profit in the long haul.

And quoted for the unions working with employers business, for absolute truth. I have never worked for a company that has a union involved that hasn't worked with the company. They're there for negotiations on behalf of all employees, afterall.
Of course, you do get the odd union that somehow manages to strong arm half a days leave to go donate blood, but essentially, they're *******. And the employees who use that benefit are also ******* imho.

Ultimately though, it seems to me as though if you've had a bad experience with a union, they're all tarnished with the same brush. By the same token, I'd put money on the majority of people in that boat would cry bloody murder if you did the same thing with something they believed in. "I had a bad experience with a falcon once, basically fell apart, so I won't buy another." "THAT'S ONLY ONE - AND IT WAS AN EA/XF/AU!! GIVE THEM A CHANCE!!!!!" Probably one most can identify with on this board anyway....

[Auslandau]

There is good and bad in everything and everyone ....... Bloody hell, I am full of quotes tonight! Or just full of it ...... dont answer that!

I have dealt with unions and have good and bad experiences. I have also worked under bosses for most of my 30 years of working life .... both good and bad.

The worst of the unions I have dealt with are the individuals who think they have something to prove, will not listen nor negotiate. They think they are doing the right thing by the employee but in effect, just good at making things worse. Nothing worse than getting the boss offside when there was a chance of a compromise.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Have you tried tailoring your CV to the job you're applying for?
Instead of just handing out the same template to all job applications, you need to customise it to suit the role. For your admin roles, change your CV to emphasise your computer based skills in your previous jobs. You don't have to lie but as long as you have the skills then you can "massage" your previous job responsibilities.

Yeah its always customised per job and same with cover letter but unfortunately I can't really get away with trying to BS my previous job role, I can emphasise the paperwork, organisation side and quality control side of it but I can't really BS it up to the max like I was an admin assistant rather than auto electrician if you know what I mean.

Even at things like TAFE, when you first introduce yourself, everyone says yeah I do this in the office, I'm that blah blah blah.

I'm an auto electrician...

The dirty looks and the misconceptions people come up with about tradies lol.

Originally Posted by Auslandau

This is getting rather silly.

Agree with castellan's post above ........ if you or anyone doesn't like the boss, become your own and work for yourself ..... but PLEASE ... do not offer work to anyone else and help support others as that would be a **** act to do wouldn't it?

Would love our shop to become a Union site ..... then I could decrease everyones pay to the award as specified by the union! WOOHOO!!!!!

Remember by the time theres a union organiser and a shop steward sitting across the table for negotations, they already know what their members are being paid so know what to aim for, usually they go in really high and try to meet in the middle or quarter, they won't go for award wages so everyone goes backwards.

EDIT: You probably already know how it goes since you said you had part in it previously lol.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

It would then have to go both ways!

Before I give an employee a pay increase, I want to see there bank statement to see if they gamble, smoke, drink, drive a V8 or spend hours at the pub.

Its only right to see if the money is going towards good ..... or evil

But you only listed the good things.......

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

so you went in to work and made every one else sick

props to you

btw

you had a very bad head cold at the most, not the flu

you wouldnt be getting out of bed with a proper flu

Lol that was my argument I was pulling over every 5 min vomiting, white and almost fainted from dehydration. It wasn't just a flu, it was a bed ridden one. And from not staying in bed arms would start vibrating as would my thighs then whole body/breathing (not far off ambulance call), white vision and I'd had those electrolyte pops by my side the whole time. Don't know if you've ever experienced a flu that bad but it's fine line between managing my energy from fainting from dehydration and not having to call an ambulance. Which I did once before with the same flu when dehydrated. They sent me home "early" in the last hour the manager in the end was gawping as I got worse towards the end of the night, looked concerned like I was going to spontaneously faint or something, I was delirious as well in the last hour so they sent me home "as early as they could" (in their minds :S)

Gotta do what you gotta do lal which should've been to quit that stupid place and never put myself in a position to risk my life, others and a 5k car for the sake of $10 an hour. But oh well lol bosses don't care or they're too busy focusing on their precious rush to properly consider the repercussions of their dictations. Shame I wasn't older than 19 at the time or I would've never allowed that ridiculous situation to happen and been farm roe assertive.... teenagers aren't aware of their rights and will do anything as requested by their bosses when asked or especially when threatened.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

what u mean is uv never seen a real communist a dictator isn't a communist just because he calls himself one just like a democracy isn't one just because it has capitalism in it.

I always see these misconceptions in an aim to stain stigma onto communism, socialism and religion. Hitler and Stalin are horrible and invalid examples.

Facts are Hitler wasn't a socialist or an atheist. He was actually a devoted Roman Catholic for one, and the most successful right wing extremist in our history, non-liberal opportunist and facist. Just ask Henry Ford and his legacy Gina Rinehart of the liberalism Hitler has provided for Ford and took away from Fords workers. We need to remember it was the private sector/big business of that time that adored and supported the nazi party as hitler had better pro-capitalist policies than anyone (ie for big german/americans/aryian companies, every one else was *******). Stalin was a massive facist, statist and totalerian who leaned to the left but he was no communist lol, the concept of a dictatorship contradicts the concept of communism directly, making it corrupt and invalid, for true equality communism and democracy need to go hand in hand. Show me one country that is yet to do so. And every democratic socialist nation is actually doing very well as capitalism collapses around the globe as a whole. (norway is on utopian standards most can't even dream of) which would be expected with such a system imo.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Lol that was my argument I was pulling over every 5 min vomiting, white and almost fainted from dehydration. It wasn't just a flu, it was a bed ridden one. And from not staying in bed arms would start vibrating as would my thighs then whole body/breathing (not far off ambulance call), white vision and I'd had those electrolyte pops by my side the whole time. Don't know if you've ever experienced a flu that bad but it's fine line between managing my energy from fainting from dehydration and not having to call an ambulance. Which I did once before with the same flu when dehydrated. They sent me home "early" in the last hour the manager in the end was gawping as I got worse towards the end of the night, looked concerned like I was going to spontaneously faint or something, I was delirious as well in the last hour so they sent me home "as early as they could" (in their minds :S)

Gotta do what you gotta do lal which should've been to quit that stupid place and never put myself in a position to risk my life, others and a 5k car for the sake of $10 an hour. But oh well lol bosses don't care or they're too busy focusing on their precious rush to properly consider the repercussions of their dictations. Shame I wasn't older than 19 at the time or I would've never allowed that ridiculous situation to happen and been farm roe assertive.... teenagers aren't aware of their rights and will do anything as requested by their bosses when asked or especially when threatened.

sounds like its always someone else's fault!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by prydey

sounds like its always someone else's fault!

It is !!

Ask any teenager or Woman

[Dash_XR]

Few wonky history lessons floating around here lol.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

As always The well to do say it's the workers fault **** the bosses there nothing without workers let em move over seas long as they move to the greedy dogs the worlds going down hill may aswell take those ****s with us

I dun aggrei wit wot u don said! Dem mother****er **** ******** **** weak as **** employers! **** 'em!!

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by prydey

sounds like its always someone else's fault!

It was either lose my job or work with the flu. That's the real world!

What would've you done??

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

It was either lose my job or work with the flu. That's the real world!

What would've you done??

mate, had you crashed that car and taken out someone, and it was found you were in the state you claim, then you could have been up on some serious charges. good luck trying to blame the boss.

if i'd had a pizza delivered by a vomiting delirious person, i would have rang the company and had you sent home anyway.

i would have stayed home

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

It was either lose my job or work with the flu. That's the real world!

What would've you done??

Sorry mate that is a load of crap, if you reputation is known as a reliable worker the employer would know this & understand.....fancy going to work spreading the flu

[Serial_Fool]

Newsflash: Australian manufacturing is unprofitable. To have made it profitable again, wages had to have fallen and productivity increased to be more in line with Asia.

Or we could have thrown more government money at this underlying problem (government buying local fleet cars in an industry it supports a broken window fallacy).

Ford Australia, GMH and Toyota aren't Australian companies anyway, they are foreign owned subsidiaries.

[Franco Cozzo]

Instead of throwing money hand over fist at them, they should have limited novated leases to only Australian made vehicles and offered tax incentives and rego discounts for people who own them.

For example rego for any Australian made car is at the discounted rate pensioners/low income earners get (like $400 odd in Victoria).

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Instead of throwing money hand over fist at them, they should have limited novated leases to only Australian made vehicles and offered tax incentives and rego discounts for people who own them.

For example rego for any Australian made car is at the discounted rate pensioners/low income earners get (like $400 odd in Victoria).

Excuse my ignorance, but what are these?

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Instead of throwing money hand over fist at them, they should have limited novated leases to only Australian made vehicles and offered tax incentives and rego discounts for people who own them.

For example rego for any Australian made car is at the discounted rate pensioners/low income earners get (like $400 odd in Victoria).

And IF my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle!
ALL great sentiments Damo, but the horse has well and truly bolted...
Govco (both sides) couldn't give two hoots about Australian manufacturing. I've said it before and will again... They simply want us to be the world's biggest warehouse!
Port expansions, 10,000+ sq metre warehouses popping up all over, huge container yards everywhere... And thousands of EMPTY containers going back overseas... Bloody madness, is what it is.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by trublu

Sorry mate that is a load of crap, if you reputation is known as a reliable worker the employer would know this & understand.....fancy going to work spreading the flu

lol you clearly have no idea.

How insulting. You've obviously never worked before.