60 minutes tonight on young drivers.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ok, my heads sore, i wont bring myself to rely on capitals to get my point across so good luck to you all.
I'm off now to educate my 10yr old about how to conduct oneself whilst behind the wheel.
I'll let you know in 7yrs how i go..lol

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Fev

The AFF universe is saved.

Between all matter is empty space. Matter is created from energy but no intelligence has ever worked out how to make the empty space to separate the matter and as there is a lot of matter on AFF there needs to be a lot of empty space. So it is very lucky that......

FEV is back.....

[Fev]

Hurray and rejoice!


cmon, just havin some fun.. Doesn't look like theres been all too much fun lately..

[GORDZ]

*watches the AFF post per day curve slowly increase now fevs back, hoping the aussie dollar does the same*

[Fev]

haha nah i wont be, too busy at work..
anyways back on topic..

In regards to more training, i think most people would agree more specialised training is required to teach new drivers(i would like some advanced training too, just dont have the $300 to fork out each time) is there some way we can petition the government to do this in say one of the states and if it is a good program and many people agree with it, make it compulsory Aus wide?

[Airmon]

I'm with Fev on that one, if driver training was cheaper and subsidized by the government I would be doing a course every second week. $50 to go rip it up on a Skid pan with Warren Luff telling me how to do it properly? HELL YES!
Same thing for $300?? Nah no thanks, I might buy a new stereo.

Originally Posted by XR6_661

If you ask me.

Who cares.

If you are a good, mature P-plate driver, or any driver for that matter. Then none of this should worry you. More often then not it's the actual 'hoons' that arc up over all this nonesense.

And if you don't wanna be tarred with the same brush, do something about it.

Ithink it should be compulsary, and possibly something that can be funded partly by governments as a "Young drivers incentive program" or whatever, is all first year p-platers are required to do a defensive driving course.

I would like to clarify that I'm not trying to defend or condone any 'hoons' actions but am more or less expressing my outrage at the slander and scare-tactics being used by local current affair reporters on the topic, and while we are having a good discussion here am just providing another view.
There is talk of increasing the driving age, which I am against, not because it will affect me, but because I see it as unfair and in general a very flawed idea.
But I do agree with your comments on defensive drivers courses, and while 4V Man does not think it will help, I think he is wrong there. You say that experience is key, well driver training is just that, training, which helps you gain experience, if you had run a slalom in the wet a few times on a track, it will make you alot better at it should you have to do it on the road.

Originally Posted by TE50pilot

:
No I am not a P plater but I do have children at the age this is aimed at and yes they are car nuts (boy and girl) and yes they know I speed at times. Hell they even know I drank and drove back in the day but they have the right attitude towaards driving and probably learnt from my mistakes.
Forget the red or green letter P on the cars and look at the individuals and as always there are small amount of idiots everywhere.
IMO poor attitudes kill not cars.

I agree and I've seen attitudes such as your own be handed down to teenagers and have seen their driving improve as a result. Driving becomes a privilege and instead of listening to facts and numbers be called out across an assembly hall from some bloke from the RTA trying to tell you 'blah blah blah', its coming from someone who a young person will listen to.

Originally Posted by ArTeesT

We should then be pushing to give them as much professional experience as possible then. Not taking stuff away.

Exactly!

While increasing the driving age and implementing a P-plater car will work, they are flawed, the former more so. The P-Plater car is a very valid idea, and the renting scheme is great, but you will find that the people who will buy it (if its not compulsary) will be the ones who don't get themselves into trouble to begin with, given the choice someone will always buy what is 'in' at the time regardless.
I think it would work, perhaps on a 2 year scheme, 1 year on your Ls where you can only drive when supervised, then one year on your P1s, after which you are deemed capable of driving a proper car. Either way, unfortunately it's only a dream.

Bent-8, regarding your example with the 6.0lt commodore, It comes down to freedom, and from said examples parents point of view, would you prefer your child to be driving a brand new commodore ute when they crash at any speed, or a mid 90s hyundai?

[Falc'man]

Clay, you up for a run through natio anytime soon?

[GORDZ]

thats exactly what i said in post #150.

sure north melbourne has drag tag (is that still open) but the costs were prohibitive. what beats $25 open days at winton raceway? push your own car to the limit, and if u go too far, likely u'll just end up on the grass... it's a great day, and lots to be learnt

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Clay, you up for a run through natio anytime soon?

Always. Just give me a time :P

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by flappist

You are missing the point of the "P" car. Open licence holders cannot own them and can only drive them under exceptional circumstances.

They are heavily subsidised and are to be returned when the "P" period has expired. Basicly the idea is to have a P plater driving a $20k plus value NEW car for an amount they can afford. A "rental" for want of a better idea.

And NO THEY CAN'T SELL THEM AND YES THEY LOSE MONEY ON THEM but nowhere near as much as they will lose on an ordinary new car. It might even cost almost as much as half of their phone bill or a quarter of their alcho-pop bill or one eighth of their "name brand" clothing bill.

The idea is to give new players a chance. A side effect of this is that most will not buy a crappy old car when they get their opens as they are used to nice new and shiny. Ever seen a gen Y with a phone older than 6 months or last year's fashion?

What a great idea :

We can call this "new car" a Trabant or a Lada or a Zils. And to save money we can build using an old Fiat design with compressed cardboard in a Gulag in Northern Territory from prison labor!

If I am old enough to die for my country and pay taxes than I am old enough to buy a X car from X brand with X engine. Fair enough restricting high-powered vehicles and drink drivers but restricting choice. Consumer choice is the foundation of Western Democracy.

BTW I am a Gen Y and I have a Nokia 3315 (over 5 years old) and have never bought clothes in my life (apart from XXXX shirt I got from drinking a few cartons and Year 12 Jersey and footy uniform) I rely on Christmas. I still where school clothes around the house and my grog consists of home brew spirits for 10 dolas a bottle.

My money goes to food, rent and electricity and my 4 cars and 5 motorbikes :

[Rob's 76 Effy]

Not sure about the driver training thing myself (panel still out), Ok you get these so called "Hoons" to do the course on a track with no one else about fair enough, now here lies the problem, with there new found experiance they go out and do the same thing but with a lot more bravo having done a DDC with other road users, all good doing a DDC in a controlled enviroment completly different kettle of fish in the real world with other road users, no-one knows what the guy in the other car will do not everyone thinks and reacts the same way

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

Not sure about the driver training thing myself (panel still out), Ok you get these so called "Hoons" to do the course on a track with no one else about fair enough, now here lies the problem, with there new found experiance they go out and do the same thing but with a lot more bravo having done a DDC with other road users, all good doing a DDC in a controlled enviroment completly different kettle of fish in the real world with other road users, no-one knows what the guy in the other car will do not everyone thinks and reacts the same way

Very true, and its unfortunately the downside of driver training, but if you have people like that they are going to think they are race car drivers whether they have the training or not, they will be doing burnouts whether they know how to control them properly or not, so yes while you are giving them the education to do these things, you are making it safer for them and everyone else at the same time. It wont be perfect, but I think it will cut down on some deaths. If you can't stop it you might as well make it as safe as you can, alot like injection rooms.
And if there was a Skid pan open every weekend for a decent price then I myself (as well as all my mates) would rather go and do burnouts on a proper pad with nothing around and proper support staff on hand then going into an industrial estate at 1 or 2am and doing it in a Cul-der-sac.

[Breezed]

Originally Posted by braddyxe51

After a fatel crash here in Perth a few months ago involving a 1.8L 4pot non turbo, gov had to rethink about restriction on P platers. Cos it can happen in any car not just high powered. They said that there is not enough evidents that high powered car are the proplem.
Its only the high powered car accidents that the show on the news.
There is a thread somewhere on some forum, by memory only 2% of fatel crashes are caused by high powered P platers.

Back on topic. Personaly I may watch it but still wont change my mind that there should not be restrictions for P platers. Just need to be better training. Sure its may have improved in the ten plus years since I got mine but there is always room for more.

the reason that the high power car cashers are on the news reports all the time is because its the hi powered p platers and hoons that drag racing and crash. u dont see kia reo and a prius on the news do ya its always some subaru

[Daymoe]

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=...8-86c8e9a42ca6

Theres the video if you missed it, man.. I laughed so hard when Craig was on the camera.

[Rob's 76 Effy]

In reality no amount of training will stop the road toll (in young drivers) or anyone for that fact, we sure cant keep our kids wrapped up in cotton wool all our lives, we can only guide them on the right path and hope they heed all the warnings we front them with, i have 4 boy's (10 through to 19) my eldest goe's onto his P2's next month and my second eldest starts his life on the road as an L plater, seem like only yesterday they were both on the TIT, it worries me very night (late) when the phone rings it's not that call all parents dread, really i'm not sure what the answer is to fix this mess up

[Rob's 76 Effy]

Theres another item on ACA now on hoons

[Daymoe]

In Victoria its just burt newton talking about crap :O

[TURBOTAXI]

I can see these new P plate cars being a fantastic entry level racing class.

[GORDZ]

just watched the 60 minutes report, and what an absolute load of rubbish that was...

so they're saying that the killers are the p plateers in big powerfull RWD cars, then they go and show skylines, commos and sx's doing spirited u turns, THEN they go and invite 17 18 and 19 yearolds to fling a boaty poor handling weak as crap FWD camry at some foam? Yet they say it's the brain that can't cope, not inexperience.


jesus christ, who watches this?

[Darkr]

No wonder they hit those people every time, 165's.. no abs... can't threshold brake... When I did the serve to avoid test, I had no trouble going around them and stopping at over 60km/hr, I would have been 18 at the time, I did it in my falcon though.

Poor report, and this thread is full of a lot of rubbish talk as well.

Moral to the story? Don't be a moron, be smart about driving.

[Daymoe]

They told them to hit the brakes when trying to avoid them also, I thought you don't brake while in the middle of cornering?

[Darkr]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

They told them to hit the brakes when trying to avoid them also, I thought you don't brake while in the middle of cornering?

Correct, in my course they yelled "look out" as we entered the beginning of the circle in which we would hit the brake and steer around.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by b0son

that's assuming i want to do 110. i seldom do.

across the Hay plain, i'm inclined to do 160 when conditions are good. saves me several hours and massively reduces onset of fatigue. years of driving experience and many long trips tell me fatigue is a far bigger problem.

Agree with ya there, since I calmed down with my driving. I've almost wrote myself off a number of times cause I was so tired (100k's almost into a wall as one example), and that powernap stuff is BS. Mind you when I was driving 20 - 30kph over the limit I was able to stay awake. Oh well I'm a good little citizen now.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

OK i have to admit i struggle to put words on my keyboard but what you just wrote is exactly what i have been banging my head against a brick wall to get across.
They can do whatever they like to restrict young people but the honest law abiding ones arent theones found on said stobie poles.
2000 Prius driving, law abiding citizens aint gonna stop johnny rotten from writing off dads SS.

Pretty much, parents children will die before them due to car accidents or their life will be ruined and they will end up vegatables. This will always continue to happen, try whatever you like to change it but it will continue. Unfortunatly the government has to look like they're doing something about it.

[GORDZ]

what tests are you talking about? WA yeah?

braking mid coner will unsettle any car, and you try getting any sort of stopping performance out of a car with no ABS that has just had them locked up who knows how many times.

for giggles, i would LOVE LOVE LOVVVVVEEEE top gear australia to put 3 17 yearolds in a rediculously priced, even more rediculously fast supercar and have them do the same tests, then forward their 'scientific findings' to 60 minutes.

shame 60 minutes, SHAME.

[Breezed]

60 minutes is just a cut and paste show people should know that by now

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by GORDZ

what tests are you talking about? WA yeah?

braking mid coner will unsettle any car, and you try getting any sort of stopping performance out of a car with no ABS that has just had them locked up who knows how many times.

for giggles, i would LOVE LOVE LOVVVVVEEEE top gear australia to put 3 17 yearolds in a rediculously priced, even more rediculously fast supercar and have them do the same tests, then forward their 'scientific findings' to 60 minutes.

shame 60 minutes, SHAME.

Get Craig inside a Nissan GT-R , would make for some good entertainment.

[ltd_on20s]

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11238927

this kind of dodgy journalism is exactly what i was trying to get at in my thread. this is the kind of stuff uneducated people will see on tv and think everyone is like these kids. thats why we need a group with a political slant. you think they will listen to us without advising them we have votes to give away?

[Falc'man]

I can't believe that you guys haven't taken in any of the emotions of the dead's family, masking the Toyota Corolla Ad.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I can't believe that you guys haven't taken in any of the emotions of the dead's family, masking the Toyota Corolla Ad.

Yeah I noticed that I just found it funny that the 16yo died in a fairly new car but the toyota rep was trying to flog off saying it'll save your kids lives. Funny how they never mentioned esp as a safety feature in there....oh wait the rolla dont have one!

Ford could capatilise on this with their small cars as being very safe and cheap!!

[GORDZ]

couldn't stop laughing at the reporting falc