Thousands of Aussie Ford owners could take part in class action over ‘defective automatic gearboxes’

[poppa smurf]

ah! so now the purchaser must be "instructed" on how to "drive" an "automatic"......very interesting, at what point would that make the term" automatic" redundant.

I watched the video and at no point did it address the issue of rattling deep within the box, nor did it mention the sudden speeding up produced from the box, nor did it mention the incorrect selection of gear when slowing then accelerating from a slow down situation.

nor did it mention the surging when coming to a halt or the vibration emanating from the box on a smooth road or the hesitation on take off when applying power.

I wonder how much "training" or "instruction" we would need to see these "driver related" issues simply magically vanish.

sorry but we are "up to here" with the lying palaver that is dished out by Ford dealerships and one eyed Ford supporters, there comes a time when reality must overcome and dealt with.

why is it that when the vehicle is returned and complaints made that many, apparently, perfectly good parts are replaced if it is "driver error".......the box, not the driver, is the problem, Ford and a lot of folks should simply deal with it.....

"D" for drive should mean exactly that not mean "please consult your owners manual and undergo training and be sure to complete many user inputs to get to a standard drive.

the box/software is crap and Ford MUST deal with it.

[Adamz Ghia]

What gets me is they built a whiz bang new gear box to go into a city car, which is what Focus, Fiesta and EcoSport are. City cars are driven in places like Melbourne where at 6.30am the (for those who know Melbourne) Westgate has crawled to a stop, traffic is banked up passed the Point Cook bend and traffic, guess what, crawls ahead and inches forward, stop start, stop start, the same as every other major city in the world. And the gear box they put into the city cars cannot handle this sort of city driving.

Defies belief.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Do you know what it costs per clutch replacement? Mum has had 3, how many others have had them replaced? Couldnt be cheap to be running the replacement program?

the conventional cars doing a clutch you can do it blind folded , and they are dirt cheap to do .
some of these little economy front wheel drives just purely because everything is crammed into the engine bay (engine/gearbox/diff ), it can be a very labor intensive job replacing a even just a bog standard old style simple clutch .
this is one of the main reasons i despise front wheel drive layout.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Do you know what it costs per clutch replacement? Mum has had 3, how many others have had them replaced? Couldnt be cheap to be running the replacement program?

Id say getreg is paying for this....or at least the parts. Also thought Ford have a third party insureance for warranty....as long as they keep it to a certain tgw they dont pay that much.

[123Cat]

Yes they went with the best fuel economy gear box , naturally

Airbus is No1 because of great fuel consumption

Yes they use carbon fibre to get it ,

and over 20 US pilots have asked to be transfered to Boeings

Because of the lives lost in Airbuses

[123Cat]

Excuse me , I was being too harsh on Carbon fibre there , They are using ultrasound to check it now I understand

Its more brittle than aluminium but lighter , as you know

In the same way that Airbus first tested Carbon fibre on the public on their aircaft ( and had a few crashes ),

then Ford is testing this futuristic gearbox (that saves fuel) ,,, on you

[BENT_8]

Problem with these transmissions is they are treated like an automatic whereas they are infact a manual without a clutch peddle.
All of the things complained about are what would occur in a traditional manual if the clutchwork were poor.
Many complain about the hesitation at roundabouts and cornering, this is because the gearbox is expecting a stop or downchange, then when a gap appears and you nail it it needs time to find the right gear again, same as in a manual, you approach the intersection, disengage the clutch to stop, a gap appears, you cant just release the brake, you have to select the appropriate gear and reengage the gearbox by releasing the clutch. It all takes time and so too with the DSG only you can see whats happening when driving a manual with clutch and adjust accordingly, the DSG is making assumptions based on its last input recieved.
It would never work in good old Oz, too many impatient ****** ducking into traffic.

Weve just bought a vehicle with CVT, despite all the concerns expressed by others, i think its a bloody fantastic box if driven correctly, like a diesel, dont over rev it, just squeeze the throttle, hold it at a little over 2k and it just builds speed seamlessly.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Problem with these transmissions is they are treated like an automatic whereas they are infact a manual without a clutch peddle.
All of the things complained about are what would occur in a traditional manual if the clutchwork were poor.
Many complain about the hesitation at roundabouts and cornering, this is because the gearbox is expecting a stop or downchange, then when a gap appears and you nail it it needs time to find the right gear again, same as in a manual, you approach the intersection, disengage the clutch to stop, a gap appears, you cant just release the brake, you have to select the appropriate gear and reengage the gearbox by releasing the clutch. It all takes time and so too with the DSG only you can see whats happening when driving a manual with clutch and adjust accordingly, the DSG is making assumptions based on its last input recieved.
It would never work in good old Oz, too many impatient ****** ducking into traffic.

At least Ford corrected its mistake, VW buyers basically don't have an automatic option to choose. I suspect it doesn't hurt them because the overwhelming majority of their sales in their main market are manuals and they do a very nice manual gearbox. I suspect Ford's world markets are more auto-biased.

[poppa smurf]

Bent 8.......happy for you, I hope you and the DSG have many happy years together.........ours has been a very unhappy union, regardless of how much I apply my, close to 50 years of driving (licensed and unlicensed farm/heavy machinery work), to the task of a smooth ride......just between you and me I think there are 1 or two others that are not real pleased with theirs as well but don't tell anyone.

Ford has not corrected their mistake and are simply refusing to admit there is a mistake to correct in most cases......hence so many class actions and single civil suits.

[new2ford]

What I mean by Ford "correcting their mistake" is that I understand that the current Focus and Fiesta models have gone back to a torque converter gearbox (?).

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Weve just bought a vehicle with CVT, despite all the concerns expressed by others, i think its a bloody fantastic box if driven correctly, like a diesel, dont over rev it, just squeeze the throttle, hold it at a little over 2k and it just builds speed seamlessly.

So in your opinion a LOT of drivers would have to change to a Grandma driving style ?

I've driven a lot Volvo's and KW B-Doubles with these type of 'auto' box.

The Volvo (Euro) was brilliant in all situations. The KW ('Murrican) didn't know what gear to pick going into and out of roundabouts or climbing hills.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by new2ford

What I mean by Ford "correcting their mistake" is that I understand that the current Focus and Fiesta models have gone back to a torque converter gearbox (?).

Correct they have gone back to what made the Focus a great car, hassle free smooth driving...

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by new2ford

What I mean by Ford "correcting their mistake" is that I understand that the current Focus and Fiesta models have gone back to a torque converter gearbox (?).

Ah! okay, i thought you meant as in correcting previous model faults,

Ford have done, are doing, nothing to correct madams vehicle in any way shape or form, why they can't replace the box with the one you have described I don't know.

in for it's service and "updates" today, yet to get it back so will be interesting to see what it comes out like.

to be honest I am very surprised it still has a home here,

had to laugh at a Holden dealers response to a low ball trade in offer, he stated "we will be forever trying to rectify the transmission faults and will cost us a lot of money, hence the low offer!"

Mazda dealer said she would have to drive it to see if it is one that afflicted with transmission destruction syndrome......obviously well known problem in the industry.

but I guess that is the whole crux of the trade in debacle, no-one wants to buy a lemon.

I will repeat yet again the vehicle is a lovely little car but the trans just kills it......bloody shame.

"edit" just got a phone call from SWMBO who is at the Ford mob, not only have they not rectified the problems now the Ford service mob has lost her space saver spare and denying she ever had one.......bloody incredible.

[Mercury Bullet]

I wouldn't be selling it now mate.

Wait until the outcome of this case. By all means get a new car but I certainly wouldn't be trading it for a low figure, you will get reamed.

It's a shame, I heard the Focus is a great drivers car, let down by this stupid bloody box.

Would you consider another one with a torque converter?

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I wouldn't be selling it now mate.

Wait until the outcome of this case. By all means get a new car but I certainly wouldn't be trading it for a low figure, you will get reamed.

yeah! I'm with you on that one, but I just got a text from my wife again, they are denying it ever came with any sort of spare, but I know it had a space saver but can't prove it of course.

theft of her space saver on top of nil problems fixed and with Fords "non service" and really bad attitude is not making for a happy wifey.

I'm afraid she will take any offer at this stage to distance herself from Ford and any association with the brand.

so it's not my call I'm afraid, she is a VERY independent woman and madam will do what madam wants to do.

we will talk upon her return.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

So in your opinion a LOT of drivers would have to change to a Grandma driving style ?

Lol, dont have to drive like a grandma at all, just not necessary to rev the ring out of them, they are what they are.
If i wanted a sub 14 second sedan we would have bought one, we needed a suv with good safety and fuel economy, the Outlander provides that but i dont confuse the two.
The way owners complain about the powershift you would expect to see them broken down or T boned at every intersection but you dont, so that tells me its not as bad as is made out to be.
It is a driving style issue and Ford will get away with it because of that.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It is a driving style issue and Ford will get away with it because of that.

Interesting. MIL will prob be up for a second box. Mainly freeway and highway driving. Been in the car with her a few times and no sign of thrashing.

Maybe her driving style should be take public transport. This gearbox is rubbish....unfortunately I steer people away from these cars. I guess its a good thing that they have been selling poorly. For a brand trying to rebuild this is not needed.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The way owners complain about the powershift you would expect to see them broken down or T boned at every intersection but you dont, so that tells me its not as bad as is made out to be.
It is a driving style issue and Ford will get away with it because of that.

Have you owned a DSG Focus or Fiesta?

We had one for 2.5 years and your posts don't represent what is actually happening.
I dont want to keep on about the same issues, plenty to read here.
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11399507

[In Focus]

Between the Mrs and I, we've had three of these gearboxes (two of them Fords) - no problems at all, very smooth. That said, I'm the only one who drives in anything like bumper to bumper traffic regularly, and I don't do the automatic "creep forward" thing. So maybe that makes a difference?

[poppa smurf]

well we had a "yak!" last night and she will keep the vehicle until the outcome of the mass law suit, and a fair few folks are getting their money refunded under the "not fit for purpose" clause, maybe we can go that route, don't like the "gag order" they are forced to sign though.

other car sales yards really don't want the issues and extra expenditure that go along with the vehicle.

She would be the possessor of all things shiny said there actually appears to be a slight improvement in performance after the latest update..... however the "space saver" spare is gone, don't know what to do about that good ole Ford service still living in Egypt... in denial.

the service manager has stated the box has "issues" and talking about a trans and clutch replacement in the near future because of these issues, it still shudders and there is still a rattle deep in the bowels as well as the unexpected speeding up and the grinding noises and unexpected lurches these have not been addressed.

we have a letter from Ford that states we have an extended warranty on the box, 150,000 Km's I think, but we won't have the vehicle anywhere near that long, hasn't even clicked over 20,000 km's yet.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I believe a clutch job is $6500. That's what the dealership told me when mine was done in warranty.

[new2ford]

That missing spare wheel reminds me of a visit to an official dealer in UK once. The car was under warranty and soon after I filled the tank up full the fuel gauge failed. It went straight to the dealer, the sensor in the tank was the problem so it was replaced for free. I drove off, looked at the gauge and the tank was only one quarter full! Naturally they denied that they had milked it as I had no proof. Some dealers (or more probably their employees) are dogs.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

well we had a "yak!" last night and she will keep the vehicle until the outcome of the mass law suit, and a fair few folks are getting their money refunded under the "not fit for purpose" clause, maybe we can go that route, don't like the "gag order" they are forced to sign though.

other car sales yards really don't want the issues and extra expenditure that go along with the vehicle.

She would be the possessor of all things shiny said there actually appears to be a slight improvement in performance after the latest update..... however the "space saver" spare is gone, don't know what to do about that good ole Ford service still living in Egypt... in denial.

the service manager has stated the box has "issues" and talking about a trans and clutch replacement in the near future because of these issues, it still shudders and there is still a rattle deep in the bowels as well as the unexpected speeding up and the grinding noises and unexpected lurches these have not been addressed.

we have a letter from Ford that states we have an extended warranty on the box, 150,000 Km's I think, but we won't have the vehicle anywhere near that long, hasn't even clicked over 20,000 km's yet.

Easy to say find another dealer Poppa.
I live out of town too and realise that just isn't an option. I guess you can always look at this in a glass half full scenario...bloody space saver should never have been there in the first place.
I told my dealer I wasn't going to take my car if it had a space saver, I didn't realise it had to have a full size spare because of Brembo's, haha.

I'm no mechanic, but it sounds like the clutches have gone mate.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Easy to say find another dealer Poppa.
I live out of town too and realise that just isn't an option. I guess you can always look at this in a glass half full scenario...bloody space saver should never have been there in the first place.
I told my dealer I wasn't going to take my car if it had a spacesaver, I didn't realise it had to have a full size spare because of Brembo's, haha.

I'm no mechanic, but it sounds like the clutches have gone mate.

well we had a 260 Km round trip the other day so she could look at a Mazda 2 or maybe the 3 so mileage really doesn't bother us, but they really weren't interested in the trade....they want the vehicle on premises to "test" it first before even making any offer.....no value in the vehicle is the message we are receiving unless this is "fixed" correctly, a lot of dealers don't even want it.

the "space saver" I see as really a no loss, I will find a wrecker that has a full spare floating about, it's just the fact that it was there before the service then it wasn't then to have to pay for the privilege of having it stolen is a kick as well.

staff basically said that SWBQ and was a liar......not good on Fords behalf.

I am no mechanic either, hence why we bought new for her so all motoring would be trouble free, I don't know what is wrong with the vehicle only it's symptoms.

one mechanic says clutches another says trans.....I don't care anymore I just want an end to all the dribble.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by new2ford

That missing spare wheel reminds me of a visit to an official dealer in UK once. The car was under warranty and soon after I filled the tank up full the fuel gauge failed. It went straight to the dealer, the sensor in the tank was the problem so it was replaced for free. I drove off, looked at the gauge and the tank was only one quarter full! Naturally they denied that they had milked it as I had no proof. Some dealers (or more probably their employees) are dogs.

When I was 19, I crashed my ed xr6 20m from the servo exit after I had just filled the (empty) tank to the brim with premium.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It is a driving style issue and Ford will get away with it because of that.

Rubbish. When you buy a car you shouldn't have to take 'driving style' lessons.

You don't happen to work in Fords PR dept, do you?

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Rubbish.

No. Under the ACL, the supplier is not liable where the defect is caused by misuse. If Ford successfully proves on the balance of probabilities that the gearbox is not defective by design, but that the defects, if any, are caused by misuse of the gearbox, they are not liable under the ACL.

Those who think that this class action is a slam dunk case has another think coming.

It is also settled law that if one party rejects a settlement offer, and that party are not awarded damages greater than that settlement offer, that party will be liable for the costs of the action from the time that the settlement offer was rejected (or lapsed).

[au2000]

when I was looking at a focus (auto) late last year even my ford dealer was steering me away from the autos, he told me don't touch them you will forever have problems,

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by NX74205

No. Under the ACL, the supplier is not liable where the defect is caused by misuse. If Ford successfully proves on the balance of probabilities that the gearbox is not defective by design, but that the defects, if any, are caused by misuse of the gearbox, they are not liable under the ACL.

Those who think that this class action is a slam dunk case has another think coming.

It is also settled law that if one party rejects a settlement offer, and that party are not awarded damages greater than that settlement offer, that party will be liable for the costs of the action from the time that the settlement offer was rejected (or lapsed).

Careful, you're making sense...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Have you owned a DSG Focus or Fiesta?

We had one for 2.5 years and your posts don't represent what is actually happening.
I dont want to keep on about the same issues, plenty to read here.
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11399507

Nope, i just googled DSG and read what it had to say about them. Thats when i realised that they werent an Automatic at all, but infact 2 manual gearboxes in 1.
Then when i considered how they are meant to work i understood what all the fuss was about and why they are doing what they are doing.

Time will tell, i think Ford will win this battle...lose the war, but win the battle.