The People's Cart company in the news again

[blue sleeper]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Ford fans reach their bogan figures though.

For a very long time I've wondered why you are on this forum for something other than trolling Ford's or even Australian's in general.....

[Trump]

Official: Audi is also implicated:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...olkswagen.html

[OzJavelin]

From my understanding of the software "feature" it basically looked for a set of conditions to turn on the emissions-mode for testing. Sounds like it would be a portable piece of code that could be re-used ..

I'm wondering if they restricted this to diesel powered cars only .. or all vehicles in their range?

[Maka]

"Their analysis found some new EU cars, including Mercedes, BMW and Peugeot vehicles, were using around 50 per cent more fuel than manufacturers claimed."
(The above from Loud Noises link)

I think some guvs are about to fix their economies....

cheer's, Maka

[Syndrome]

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

For a very long time I've wondered why you are on this forum for something other than trolling Ford's or even Australian's in general.....

Fair call. If his trolling was as blatantly stupid as Hulk's and not kept low key maybe it would be more obvious to everyone.

Every post he makes is to slander Ford. Seriously why is he here?

[new2ford]

The affected engine is the E189 2 litre TDI which was used in VAG group cars from 2009 to 2015 in the case of VW and Audi, but only to 2013 for Skoda which changed to the EA288 series diesel in that year. Don't have any details for SEAT yet but the E189 was used in some of their models. VW is to bear the costs and compensation as the engine was supplied by them, not Audi, Skoda and SEAT.

More than a couple of million diesel Audis and more than a million diesel Skodas are affected. There will be a lot of action in Europe too, not just USA.

[new2ford]

700,000 SEATs affected.

[mik]

I wonder how many owners will want a buy back scenario ?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Maka

"Their analysis found some new EU cars, including Mercedes, BMW and Peugeot vehicles, were using around 50 per cent more fuel than manufacturers claimed."
(The above from Loud Noises link)

I think some guvs are about to fix their economies....

cheer's, Maka

I find it easier to match claimed figures in a diesel than in a petrol. Actually, my wife's Mirage has never got remotely close to its sticker as hard as I have tried.

The method of putting the car on rollers in a lab is flawed at best and downright deceiving as that's never how a car is driven.

Time to change how cars are assessed, how bout they go to the factory and select 10 cars at random then actually DRIVE them to work out what they consume.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I find it easier to match claimed figures in a diesel than in a petrol. Actually, my wife's Mirage has never got remotely close to its sticker as hard as I have tried.

The method of putting the car on rollers in a lab is flawed at best and downright deceiving as that's never how a car is driven.

Time to change how cars are assessed, how bout they go to the factory and select 10 cars at random then actually DRIVE them to work out what they consume.

Agreed but how do you standardise it so that every test is under the same conditions? Just look at what happens here when magazines and journos test Ford and Holdens on dynos or on a track.
They froth at the mouth in anger if wind is 1km/h faster for one car than the other.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I find it easier to match claimed figures in a diesel than in a petrol. Actually, my wife's Mirage has never got remotely close to its sticker as hard as I have tried.

The method of putting the car on rollers in a lab is flawed at best and downright deceiving as that's never how a car is driven.

Time to change how cars are assessed, how bout they go to the factory and select 10 cars at random then actually DRIVE them to work out what they consume.

I found our Territory (petrol) yielded almost exactly Ford's quoted consumption figures and now again our X3 (petrol) produces figures very close to what is claimed by BMW. Perhaps that suggests they haven't been "doctored".

Maybe you should assume that if a diesel is producing higher fuel consumption than claimed, then there's a defeat device on board??

Correction - that VW engine is EA189, left out the A, my mistake

[Iggle Piggle]

Opportunity opening up for after market tuners...selling people their original factory tune.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Opportunity opening up for after market tuners...selling people their original factory tune.

There is a significant valid point about the health issues of diesel use, especially in cities. I don't think fighting against pollution controls is sensible, better to get an engine that doesn't lose performance and economy. Petrol seems to be the go until electric makes viable gains.

[baboon]

I only heard on the radio that VW have developed a fix and also requires a small engine modification.

If this fixes emissions and still retains power/economy then that'd be interesting...

[Carrion]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Opportunity opening up for after market tuners...selling people their original factory tune.

I'm allover that, sounds like a new market that will make some $$$$$$$$$$

[new2ford]

The death of diesel on the horizon:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a6674386.html

[mik]

Yep looks that way, unless ...... they can find a better fuel for diesels ???

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by You Yangs

The cars passed the "TEST" tricky software or not, it's clever that VW knew how the test was conducted and supplied a car to suit and pass scrutiny.
It is a sloppy test procedure buy the EPA not to even drive the friggen car to actually get a real world result.
Meanwhile a volcano will erupt and spew countless dirt and gas into the atmosphere and no one will bat an eyelid.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how...y-unrealistic/

The Euro testing procedure:

The way emissions are calculated for new cars in Europe is significantly different - but that doesn’t make them any good. In fact we’ve been using roughly the same test since the 1970s.

The first is the urban driving cycle (UDC), designed to mimic driving conditions in European cities. It consists of three acceleration and four braking phases and they are ludicrously gentle:

Accelerate to 9mph in four seconds
Cruise at 9mph for eight seconds
Brake to rest in five seconds
Accelerate to 20mph over 12 seconds
Cruise at 20mph for 24 seconds
Brake to rest in 11 seconds
Accelerate to 31mph over 26 seconds
Cruise at 31mph for 12 seconds
Brake to 22mph over eight seconds
Cruise at 22mph for 13 seconds
Brake to rest in 12 seconds

Adding in all the required gear changes and idle periods, this whole test takes just over three minutes and less than a mile of driving. It’s repeated another three times, with the total driven distance adding up to just 2.5 miles.

......



A second test was added in the 1990s, called the extra-urban driving cycle (EUDC). This is similarly gentle and not particularly recognisable as real-world driving either:

Accelerate to 44mph in 41 seconds
Cruise at 44mph for 50 seconds
Brake to 31mph in eight seconds
Cruise at 31mph for 69 seconds
Accelerate to 44mph in 13 seconds
Cruise at 44mph for 50 seconds
Accelerate to 62mph in 35 seconds
Cruise at 62mph for 30 seconds
Accelerate to 75mph in 20 seconds
Cruise at 75mph for 10 seconds
Brake to rest in 34 seconds

This test takes just under seven minutes and just over four miles. Added together, the two tests take nearly 20 minutes and seven miles, and this is entirely how your car’s fuel economy is calculated by determining the car’s carbon dioxide emissions. It’s probably very little wonder that few cars get close to their official fuel economy in the real world!

Carbon monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides and particulate matter is also collected during the test to determine if the car meets the European emissions standards. These are slightly less stern at the moment than the Californian standards, but European NOx levels have been rising despite the standards allowing for less than a sixth of NOx emissions over the last 15 years - so we may yet see the emissions cheating controversy reach this side of the Atlantic too…

[blue sleeper]

Originally Posted by new2ford

700,000 SEATs affected.

Wow that's bad, I didn't think seat emissions were included!

[MAD]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

Wow that's bad, I didn't think seat emissions were included!

I'm stuffed!!!

[Sprintey]

Handelsblatt has the full time chronology of the dieselgate affair for VAG, it's sobering to note it was fully planned, and consciously so by top management:

https://global.handelsblatt.com/edit...e-of-the-crime

text here too:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...ull-chronology

The EA189 diesels were initally planned for adblue, but this was rejected in planning and afterward it seems they were goalseeked to provide excellent power, economy and emissions. Only thing is, you can only have two of those 3 in a diesel, so they chose the former two. If I read it right, and 'fixing' of cars for US emission laws will have to impact the economy or power. Note Australia has lesser emissions standards so it may well be that the EA189 can continue to run here without modification?

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

For a very long time I've wondered why you are on this forum for something other than trolling Ford's or even Australian's in general.....

Ford cars I like, some ford fans I don't.
As for the Australians bit... well doesn't matter.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Handelsblatt has the full time chronology of the dieselgate affair for VAG, it's sobering to note it was fully planned, and consciously so by top management:

https://global.handelsblatt.com/edit...e-of-the-crime

text here too:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...ull-chronology

The EA189 diesels were initally planned for adblue, but this was rejected in planning and afterward it seems they were goalseeked to provide excellent power, economy and emissions. Only thing is, you can only have two of those 3 in a diesel, so they chose the former two. If I read it right, and 'fixing' of cars for US emission laws will have to impact the economy or power. Note Australia has lesser emissions standards so it may well be that the EA189 can continue to run here without modification?

Yeah they met current emission laws here, but were advertised as something they wernt - which is why the ACCC is looking into it.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by vztrt

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how...y-unrealistic/

The Euro testing procedure:

Apparently the main bit that triggered the car to sense when a test was done is that the rear wheels are stationary during the test.

Did I hear right on the wireless that all sales of diesel VW's, Audis and Skodas have been holted here from today?

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

image

What a load of rubbish chevy suburban would pump out much more than any VW.

I think I can smell if a diesel is running clean as they smell great and don't blow any smoke at all.

I have seen many a new diesel car and 4X4 2010 on running around blowing a bit of smoke and some even more than I thought should be correct.

I am sure if the gov was to test every car from 2010 a hell of a lot would fail the test and one reason is the test nowadays is just so stringent.

Some ignorant clown warning how deadly a new VW is, be carful of the emissions now when lifting the hatch up as the motor is running what a load of rubbish, fact is VW maybe set up better than the stupid backward government test they have set up in the first place, in the real world.

Have a look see at how many people who are tampering with their diesel powered cars now, by blocking off the EGR because the bloody stupid things block up and all the huge cost involved, let alone they then can blow holes in the pistons because of the block up, this is because it then is running to lean.

Welcome to the new age of problems involved in keeping your car ADR worthy.

If the so called VW uses less fuel it's most likely it's truly cleaner overall as the more fuel that has to be pumped in = more pollution.

Not to mention that VW after the war has nothing to do with the bloody Nazi's, the Jews own it now anyway.

I see many piles of old junk on the road blowing smoke or have massive blow-by problems in QLD and the gov is not worried at all about that, but that gets on my goat and I am not worried about VW at all.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Apparently the main bit that triggered the car to sense when a test was done is that the rear wheels are stationary during the test.

Did I hear right on the wireless that all sales of diesel VW's, Audis and Skodas have been holted here from today?

Yes it's truly shock and horror.
But just wait and see the real horror starts when the Gov crack down on all cars we now have and see who is crying foul then.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by castellan

Have a look see at how many people who are tampering with their diesel powered cars now, by blocking off the EGR because the bloody stupid things block up and all the huge cost involved, let alone they then can blow holes in the pistons because of the block up, this is because it then is running to lean.

Opposite with diesels, if they run very rich (pumping black smoke out the exhaust) EGT goes through the roof and that's where you monitor it with EGT gauges/probes or you'll melt pistons.

Too much fuel with not enough turbo does it every time.

Mine in factory tune wouldn't blow smoke (87KW at wheels), now at 118KW at the wheels it does but only slightly if you get into it before the bigger turbo starts moving air.

[mik]

I was looking at an article where the VW boss said the repair to fix these cars may need hardware and software requiring 10 hours work, in another article there was also mention a fuel tank change.
The cost for this rectification will be something to behold.

[Grunter]

Heard the same thing earlier today mik. And also looks like the US is now starting to push hard for VW to buy back all the affected cars.

Had another thought that may have been mentioned earlier, but you'd think that the dealers world-wide, would have a big case against VW for lost sales with them being unable to sell the cars impacted. Not to mention the downturn in total sales purely from the VW name now being significantly less valuable.