Toyota workers warned

[Franco Cozzo]

I keep seeing this whole if the unions do this if they do that, if they back off Toyota will still be here.

Pigs *** they will still be here, they have already made up their mind, if it even possible for them to stay now Ford and Holden have said they're pulling out?

They're probably doing the dirty tricks Holden is trying to do, feed everyone BS to get the unions to cut conditions so they can pull out as cheaply as possible.

I believe I said the same thing about Holden as well?

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by cheap

My friend this is impossible to ignore Globalisation.

The freeing up of capital, opening up trade, reduced tariffs, throw in advances to manufacturing technology, fast cheap reliable transport, virtual workforces, access to cheap labour, business friendly overseas governments, zero or very relaxed environmental regulations, small V's large local markets. The list goes on and on.

And if that wasn't enough, the icing on the cake.

1) pig-headedness of militant unions to arrogantly mandate to business the terms by which business shall operate.

2) the previous genius federal government adding a few extra anti-business taxes.

"Unions evolving..." I must have missed the part where the union's are bending over backwards at Totota? Only a fool can't not see the train wreck awaiting the Toyota workforce.

Business is business I learnt that along time ago. If you stand in the way of business, it will find a way around you.

Attachment 81370

Alan gives you 1 point but takes it away for plagiarism

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I keep seeing this whole if the unions do this if they do that, if they back off Toyota will still be here.

Pigs *** they will still be here, they have already made up their mind, if it even possible for them to stay now Ford and Holden have said they're pulling out?

They're probably doing the dirty tricks Holden is trying to do, feed everyone BS to get the unions to cut conditions so they can pull out as cheaply as possible.

I believe I said the same thing about Holden as well?

I think this says it all, Decisions were made long time ago & it is only matter of time when to close shop.

[BA GT-HO]

The nice little trimmings on the side 'negotiated' (threatening industrial action aint negotiation) by unions contributed a part towards this situation. All good at the time, however it has now come back to bite them on the ****. It is not all the unions fault or the sheep that have been brainwashed to believe they can't go to work without 'protection' from being 'screwed' or 'shafted', it is the perfect storm so to speak. The AMWU lost 30-40 members during the last EBA negotiation at my work, people that could think for themselves saw the writing on the wall.

But now I think it is time for true negotiation and compromise and giving a few things back. Otherwise the dream is over and enjoy life in the real world working for $22 an hour. The way we are going we will end up not making anything here.

The union will always look good no matter what. If the company doesn't shut they will claim they 'bent over backwards and negotiated a future' for members, if it closes 'they were always going to shut and shaft the workers.'

They then move onto the next host.

[BHDOGS]

Oh give it a break already

[MAD]

Weren't Holden's changes to benefits dependant on continuing manufacturing or something. Part of the agreement was they had until December to make the decision.

This is a serious statement/question...I don't remember the details and can't find the article.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i know what your on about . i think 4 hrs pay for donating blood instead of making cars is quite disgracefull . i dont think some unionist thought it up as some sort of joyfull experience though . it was probabaly introduced by toyota management doing the community a favour . ( seriously what do you think)? giving blood isnt exactly a GOLF DAY is it . i think i'd rather get 4hrs pay to stay on the JOB .
Have you ever been involved in helping the company out , giving a little now to benifit job security later ? If so, HOW'D IT GO FOR YOU ??? . I have, an extra 200hrs a year for nothing x460 people , just once they said!!!! we're struggling . so the labour agreed ,COME NEXT YEARS years eba . that extra 200hrs was factored in to eba negotiations by management ( not negotiable) , union took it to court , and lost under ( precedence had been set by agreement last year ) jeee thanks . we we're really glad we did our bit for the company . some years later the place shut down over night , just after senior management told us
they'd scored a 20 year lease .
' shove your MORALS UP INTO A DARK PLACE , UNTILL YOU GET SOME EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN THE MORAL HIGH GROUND !!

Giving blood is a humanitarian act that saves lives - some larger companies pay for this as their contribution to well being of society .
Where do you think blood to help injured people comes from , hope you don't need it one day ....

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Giving blood is a humanitarian act that saves lives - some larger companies pay for this as their contribution to well being of society .
Where do you think blood to help injured people comes from , hope you don't need it one day ....

Yeah but how many of them would be as humanitarian without 4 hours pay to do it?
And most of the blood giving population does it in their own time, takes me less than an hour, and I work back that night to make up the time such that my company doesnt loose money and fold leaing me unemployed.
This 4 hours per employee equates to over 3 person years lost for the Toyota workforce and is just one example of a bit to lenient a award that causes undue cost to manufacturing.

JP

JP

[pottery beige]

Hahaha, sooks, bros at a minesite have just taken a 10% chop, gone from 1 on 1 off to 2 and 1
Because they love their jobs and want to keep the show running
Props too em

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Giving blood is a humanitarian act that saves lives - some larger companies pay for this as their contribution to well being of society

I would have thought providing employment would be enough, but then, this is Australia, the land of entitlement...

[MAD]

We get a couple of hours to leave work and give blood.
Dont think anyone goes though.
I should get back in to it.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Yeah but how many of them would be as humanitarian without 4 hours pay to do it?
And most of the blood giving population does it in their own time, takes me less than an hour, and I work back that night to make up the time such that my company doesnt loose money and fold leaing me unemployed.
This 4 hours per employee equates to over 3 person years lost for the Toyota workforce and is just one example of a bit to lenient a award that causes undue cost to manufacturing.

JP

JP

Lol , it takes an hour I reckon for them to get any blood out of me . I get so tense about it it's not funny , yet I can fall asleep in a dentists chair go figure .
Maybe the 4 hour scenario evolved from having to wait for people like me, who after being stabbed in both arms to get any worthwhile amount then requires a recovery period of at least 15 minutes . Jeez I hate needles .

[BroadyFord]

BREAKING:

Federal Government has announced it will intervene in Toyota AMWU dispute to allow workers to vote on a new EBA.

Link coming up.

[BroadyFord]

Here it is.

Toyota workers need vote on changes: Abetz

http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...rom=public_rss

THE federal government will intervene to allow Toyota workers to vote on proposed changes to its industrial relations policy, Employment Minister Eric Abetz says.
Toyota is seeking to add various clauses in its enterprise agreement to improve productivity.
Among these are reducing the "Christmas shutdown" period from 21 days to 10 days, reducing the number of paid days' leave to attend union delegate training from 10 days a year to five days in the first year and two days in subsequent years, and removal of paid "wash up time".
"It is clearly in the public interest that the workers be allowed to vote on Toyota's proposed variations and determine their own destiny," Senator Abetz told guests at The Sydney Institute on Tuesday.
"Tonight I announce that I have decided to intervene in support of Toyota's workers being allowed a say as soon as possible on the proposed variation."
He said the clauses should not have been proposed for the agreement in the first place.
He said 1586 working days, or about $370,000 in wages, are lost by a clause that would allow a half day on the last day before shutdown.
If all 69 of the company's union delegates took the full 10 days' paid leave for education activity, this resulted in 690 working days lost, or about $150,000 in wages, he said.
"These are just two instances of how more than 2000 working days worth of productivity could be re-injected into Toyota immediately," he said.
"Management needs to accept responsibility.
"But it is deeply troubling that the employees' right to vote on proposed variations has been frustrated."
Senator Abetz also used his speech - titled "Industrial Relations after the Thirty Years War" - to criticise the previous Labor government's economic record.
He accused Labor leader and former industrial relations minister Bill Shorten of granting "an unseemly range of union wish-list claims", while former Prime Minister Julia Gillard played "Santa Claus" to union demands.
"Every union boss, like a child writing to Father Christmas, presented their wish list to the government, which was duly granted," he said.

[Bossxr8]

The Libs anti-union, who would have thought. They must be loving this.

[Wretched]

seems fair, workers should have the right to vote.
Some of what Toyota are asking for a vote on don't seem to be outrageous or a violation on worker's rights.

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Libs anti-union, who would have thought. They must be loving this.

It's nothing to do with being "anti-union". It's about preserving thousands of jobs, retaining investment and facilitating economic activity as well as ensuring a massive crater is not punched into our economy.

No doubt the union will be doing all they can to force their members to vote no.

[jpblue1000]

"determine their own destiny,"
Now its time for the employe to think for themselves, outcome may be the same but they then have themselves to blame.

JP

[b0son]

The company pays for union delegate training??? WTF?! What next, paying for their golf days....

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by b0son

The company pays for union delegate training??? WTF?! What next, paying for their golf days....

Essentially the same thing anyway.

[cheap]

Seems to be a step in the right direction, and gives Toyota less wriggle room, however I fear it will be too late.

Reading through some of the entitlements being reviewed is simply mind-blowing.

With jobs at risk, how can the union seriously defend these entitlements over their members?

69 union delegates, what exactly do these people do? Recipe for mischief making.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by b0son

I would have thought providing employment would be enough, but then, this is Australia, the land of entitlement...

4hour entitlement as you call it is not what is sending car manufacturing broke . It is equivalent of an individual giving $2 to children's hospital appeal - or you are against that too ?

[Fordman1]

It is too simple to highlight wages as the main reason for Toyotas cost dilemma.

Material costs of locally sourced parts, costs incurred from local logistics providers, the cost of locally sourced steel, power costs, are all internationally uncompetitive.

Most of the $3,000 odd in cost saves being sought are NOT wages !!

[GQ_Smooth]

If union members vote yes to the change, and the local suppliers can stay in business with Toyota's requirement for cost cutting (the state and federal governments will help in this point as well). Toyota will stay I can almost guarantee it. Toyota are going to a lot of effort and expense trying to change their cost structure, as their sales volumes justify their existence. Head office have given them viable export markets. It's much easier and cheaper to close their operation than the path they have gone down. Toyota will suffer substantially less damage to their brand image if they close their operation than what Ford and Holden are going through. After all a Camry is far less dinki die Aussie than Commodore and Falcon.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

It is too simple to highlight wages as the main reason for Toyotas cost dilemma.

Material costs of locally sourced parts, costs incurred from local logistics providers, the cost of locally sourced steel, power costs, are all internationally uncompetitive.

Most of the $3,000 odd in cost saves being sought are NOT wages !!

But it is one area where they have the ability to directly and reasonably quickly make an impact on their costs, I have no doubt that they will be screwing doen their suppliers and service providers in order to survive.

Large business seems to suffers from inflexability in meeting changing demands and circumstances both socially and economically. The larger they get the less flexible the workplace it would seem.

JP

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

It is too simple to highlight wages as the main reason for Toyotas cost dilemma.

Material costs of locally sourced parts, costs incurred from local logistics providers, the cost of locally sourced steel, power costs, are all internationally uncompetitive.

Most of the $3,000 odd in cost saves being sought are NOT wages !!

A quick win here and there to show they are committed to reducing the cost per car will go a long way with management in Japan. They are on a tight schedule to try and reduce these costs before the new contract is up.

[BHDOGS]

Shame the liberals never intervened like this when everybody was gettig ****** by Howard's work choices

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Shame the liberals never intervened like this when everybody was gettig ****** by Howard's work choices

Not everybody got ****** by Work Choices. In my line of work, the ones who were cruising along doing bare minimum while a few did the work including having to work O/T to cover the work not done by others complained, the rest who put the effort in got better contracts and benefits.

Win/Win, we worked hard got rewarded, they didn't work as hard and didn't get rewarded. The company only wanted a CPI (3%) increase across the board, we negotiated a 8% increase over two years and productivity bonus.

Out of 20 employes only 6 didn;t want the new agreement, guess which 6?

We met targets and got the bonus the other guys complained that they didn;t get the bonus. They didn't want to work as hard and be as productive. So it works if you know how to negotiate or you have a good negotiator.

Every job since, I have negotiated my pay based on my productivity and have always been ahead of the awards, even negotiate other peoples contracts for them including the union reps.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

4hour entitlement as you call it is not what is sending car manufacturing broke

I take it you've never heard the phrase death by a thousand cuts? I assume you're capable of understanding its relevance to the discussion.

It is equivalent of an individual giving $2 to children's hospital appeal - or you are against that too ?

Its equivalent to giving a donation and then expecting to be reimbursed by your employer. You think that's ok?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Most of the $3,000 odd in cost saves being sought are NOT wages !!

But they could be. If Toyota is anything like Holden, they have more supervisors than necessary, more union-related expenses (like the infamous training days) than any sane person would consider reasonable, etc. It all adds up. At the end of the day, it comes down to man hours per vehicle, and we lag Europe/japan/etc quite significantly.