Falcon EcoBoost: The Fuel Efficiency Australians Need with the Performance They Want

[Luke Plaizier]

When you do the 'apples for apples' comparisons, can you include the power outputs, the 0-100 times and the size categorisation?


Lukeyson

[dimka100]

Wrong thread

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

When you do the 'apples for apples' comparisons, can you include the power outputs, the 0-100 times and the size categorisation?


Lukeyson

wasn't available (may have been if i looked harder. was using the green vehicle guide that jpd80 linked).

personally, i don't think anyone in the real world that actually buys them would care to much about the 0-100 stuff or power outputs. it wouldn't mean anything.

[TMC]

Good power and torque at low revs. Torque is torque, power is power. The number of cylinders is irrelevant now.

The EL Falcon had 157kW at 5250 rpm and 357Nm at 3000 rpm. The Ecoboost 4 has 179kW at 5500rpm and 353Nm at 2000 rpm. Put the new Ecoboost Falcon up against an EL XR6 or even the XR8 and I know what one will come off the winner.

[Cobramad]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Looking at dumping on in the capri?

Unfortunately the populous is generally lazy and making a manual just for this car wont happen. It would be awesome in a capri or escort!

Na, capri had 400hp Windsor. EB4 for my other capri maybe?
Sorry for moving off topic..

[Cobramad]

Thinking about it, wouldnt a 5 or 6spd manual potentially be more economical than an auto? Perhaps push the consumption into the7's?

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by prydey

wasn't available (may have been if i looked harder. was using the green vehicle guide that jpd80 linked).

personally, i don't think anyone in the real world that actually buys them would care to much about the 0-100 stuff or power outputs. it wouldn't mean anything.

I come from the real world.

I care.


Lukeyson

[UNR8D]

Cobramad, not with the efficiency of the ZF or current range of 6speed autos, drive train loss/efficiency was only a real issue back in the 4sp auto days.

If anything the autos will be better than the manual counterparts and no one buys a manual falcon unless its an XR or fpv.

[RedHotGT]

I'm confused...

Confused about the target market for the EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon.
Confused about where the EcoBoost 4cyl engine will be manufactured.
Confused about the benefits when compared to the existing FG 2011/12 range.

Why I am confused about is that the marketing is about fuel consumption, saving money, and producing less carbon... Right?
ALERT - THIS CONTAINS MATHS AND RANTING
*Calculations below are made up from the following BASE information*Using Average Petrol Price from VIC 2011 = $1.39 per litre
Using Average LPG Price (not official) = $0.60 per litre
Using Average Distance travelled by average Australian = 14,100km

The EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon has combined fuel economy of 8.1l/100km
= 14,100km @ 8.1lt per 100km = 1142.1lt of petrol.
= 1142.1lt Petrol x $1.39lt = $1587.50

The Inline 6cyl Falcon XT has combined fuel economy of 9.9l/100km
= 14,100km @ 9.9lt per 100km = 1395.9lt of petrol
= 1395.9lt Petrol x $1.39lt = $1940.30

The Inline 6cyl Falcon XT EcoLPi has a combined fuel economy of 12.3l/100km
= 14,100km @ 12.3lt per 100km = 1734.3lt of LPG
= 1734.3 LPG x $0.60lt = $1040.58

Are you following so far??

EcoBoost = $1587.50 to fuel
6cyl Petrol = $1940.30 to fuel
6cyl LPG = $1040.58 to fuel

$350 saving per year to have a 4cyl Falcon...
OR
$900 saving per year to have a 6cl Falcon on gas...

Also note...
The Petrol 6cyl Falcon emmissions are 236g/km
The EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon emmissions are 201g/km
The LPG 6cyl Falcon emmissions are 199g/km

Anyone see where I'm going???

I understand that different driving conditions, uses, etc etc will change the figures, but that is why I'm using the same base to compare them...

Back to the confusion...

If the whole idea is to save money on fuel - the LPG car is better
If the whole idea is to reduce Carbon emmissions - the LPG is already there

If there was ever a case to keep making the Inline 6cyl here in Australia, here it is!!!

I know that the EcoBoost is a Global concept... but keeping local manufacturing is pretty important too...

Am I making any sense???

[Polyal]

The LPG is a better car IMO, but probably not for the majority of people. Whether its lack of understanding or supply some people just wont jump ship to LPG.

Ecoboost is aimed at these people, but IMO these people would be more interested in a TDi Falcon.

Still, its an option and it gets the falcon in the news and shows the company is forward thinking.

[Brute 33]

LPG = Best bang for your dollar..... I was spending over $120.00 a week with PULP in a BOSS 315 Pursuit ....now roughly about $48.00 on LILPG....That was over 12 months ago.....no brainer ....Well and truly in front ....

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by Cobramad

Thinking about it, wouldnt a 5 or 6spd manual potentially be more economical than an auto? Perhaps push the consumption into the7's?

Thing there is that there are more autos sold in all cars than manual gears???

Maybe that's why most tests are done in autos???

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by loftie

I'm confused...

Confused about the target market for the EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon.
Confused about where the EcoBoost 4cyl engine will be manufactured.
Confused about the benefits when compared to the existing FG 2011/12 range.

Why I am confused about is that the marketing is about fuel consumption, saving money, and producing less carbon... Right?
ALERT - THIS CONTAINS MATHS AND RANTING
*Calculations below are made up from the following BASE information*Using Average Petrol Price from VIC 2011 = $1.39 per litre
Using Average LPG Price (not official) = $0.60 per litre
Using Average Distance travelled by average Australian = 14,100km

The EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon has combined fuel economy of 8.1l/100km
= 14,100km @ 8.1lt per 100km = 1142.1lt of petrol.
= 1142.1lt Petrol x $1.39lt = $1587.50

The Inline 6cyl Falcon XT has combined fuel economy of 9.9l/100km
= 14,100km @ 9.9lt per 100km = 1395.9lt of petrol
= 1395.9lt Petrol x $1.39lt = $1940.30

The Inline 6cyl Falcon XT EcoLPi has a combined fuel economy of 12.3l/100km
= 14,100km @ 12.3lt per 100km = 1734.3lt of LPG
= 1734.3 LPG x $0.60lt = $1040.58

Are you following so far??

EcoBoost = $1587.50 to fuel
6cyl Petrol = $1940.30 to fuel
6cyl LPG = $1040.58 to fuel

$350 saving per year to have a 4cyl Falcon...
OR
$900 saving per year to have a 6cl Falcon on gas...

Also note...
The Petrol 6cyl Falcon emmissions are 236g/km
The EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon emmissions are 201g/km
The LPG 6cyl Falcon emmissions are 199g/km

Anyone see where I'm going???

I understand that different driving conditions, uses, etc etc will change the figures, but that is why I'm using the same base to compare them...

Back to the confusion...

If the whole idea is to save money on fuel - the LPG car is better
If the whole idea is to reduce Carbon emmissions - the LPG is already there

If there was ever a case to keep making the Inline 6cyl here in Australia, here it is!!!

I know that the EcoBoost is a Global concept... but keeping local manufacturing is pretty important too...

Am I making any sense???

Certainly food for thought there mate

[falconnut]

Many people like me cant afford the initial switch to LPG, it would at least take 1-2 years to recoup the costs spent on installing LPG

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by falconnut

Many people like me cant afford the initial switch to LPG, it would at least take 1-2 years to recoup the costs spent on installing LPG

So a nice spanking new ECO lpi 6 would be good then

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by loftie

I'm confused...

Confused about the target market for the EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon.
Confused about where the EcoBoost 4cyl engine will be manufactured.
Confused about the benefits when compared to the existing FG 2011/12 range.

Why I am confused about is that the marketing is about fuel consumption, saving money, and producing less carbon... Right?
ALERT - THIS CONTAINS MATHS AND RANTING
*Calculations below are made up from the following BASE information*Using Average Petrol Price from VIC 2011 = $1.39 per litre
Using Average LPG Price (not official) = $0.60 per litre
Using Average Distance travelled by average Australian = 14,100km

The EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon has combined fuel economy of 8.1l/100km
= 14,100km @ 8.1lt per 100km = 1142.1lt of petrol.
= 1142.1lt Petrol x $1.39lt = $1587.50

The Inline 6cyl Falcon XT has combined fuel economy of 9.9l/100km
= 14,100km @ 9.9lt per 100km = 1395.9lt of petrol
= 1395.9lt Petrol x $1.39lt = $1940.30

The Inline 6cyl Falcon XT EcoLPi has a combined fuel economy of 12.3l/100km
= 14,100km @ 12.3lt per 100km = 1734.3lt of LPG
= 1734.3 LPG x $0.60lt = $1040.58

Are you following so far??

EcoBoost = $1587.50 to fuel
6cyl Petrol = $1940.30 to fuel
6cyl LPG = $1040.58 to fuel

$350 saving per year to have a 4cyl Falcon...
OR
$900 saving per year to have a 6cl Falcon on gas...

Also note...
The Petrol 6cyl Falcon emmissions are 236g/km
The EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon emmissions are 201g/km
The LPG 6cyl Falcon emmissions are 199g/km

Anyone see where I'm going???

I understand that different driving conditions, uses, etc etc will change the figures, but that is why I'm using the same base to compare them...

Back to the confusion...

If the whole idea is to save money on fuel - the LPG car is better
If the whole idea is to reduce Carbon emmissions - the LPG is already there

If there was ever a case to keep making the Inline 6cyl here in Australia, here it is!!!

I know that the EcoBoost is a Global concept... but keeping local manufacturing is pretty important too...

Am I making any sense???

Food for thought...except for a few things:
You can't get LPG everywhere. Range is a big issue for a lot of us.
I just paid our Queesland registration on both our G6E and the 1982 Celica...six cylinder, $803, four cylinder rego, $630...that $170 a year is a big difference for a lot of people, combined with lower insurance for four cylinder cars.
A four cylinder Falcon would be great, and if i'd have known they were a cert, i'd have hung off buying the G6E and bought one of them instead.

As for keeping local manufacture, we can't pretend Australia is an island (well...it is...but you know what I mean) and that we canlearn nothing from overseas. We should be picking and choosing the best of technology and ideas from around the world and bringing them here to use, as has been done with the ecoboost four.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by falconnut

Many people like me cant afford the initial switch to LPG, it would at least take 1-2 years to recoup the costs spent on installing LPG

Depends on how long you plan to own the car I suppose... If you're planning on keeping the car for more than 2 years, then you're saving money...

Kinda the same theory of having a Solar Hot Water Service, or Solar Electricity Panels...

Sure there are some setup and install costs, but overall and long term... You end up WAY in front..

[jpd80]

Ecoboost has no price premium so starts saving you money right away without waiting for the fuel savings to offset the $2575 EcoLPI premium..

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by loftie

I'
Are you following so far??

EcoBoost = $1587.50 to fuel
6cyl Petrol = $1940.30 to fuel
6cyl LPG = $1040.58 to fuel

It has ALWAYS been about perception .... not actual. They wouldn't sell 1 Pirus if it wasn't the case ....... a 4 cylinder to the appliance market will ALWAYS sell over a 6 no matter what the figures say.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Food for thought...except for a few things:
You can't get LPG everywhere.

LPG is available to (approximately) 90% of the public. Most people live in cities or large towns or very close to one. Other states do not have 'pay by the cylinder' registration. That's why petrol is still available. Build for the masses. That's the way it is and will always be.

[jpd80]

Also consider vehicles bought mainly for city driving where fuel usage is heaviest;
EcoLPI: 17.9 l/100 km...therefore @ 70c/litre 100 km costs $12.53 and 20,000 km costs $2506

Ecoboost: 11.8 l/100 km...therefore @ $1.40/litre 100 km costs $16.52 and 20,000 km costs $3304

I-6 Petrol: 14.6 l/100 km...therefore @ $1. 40/litre 100 km costs $20.44 and 20,000 km costs $4088

In that circumstance EcoLPI leads Ecoboost by $800 and the petrol I-6 by $1582

Even though EcoLPI Leads Ecoboost in fuel savings, the price premium means it's still more expensive for first three years of ownership.

The equation becomes worse if you do more moderate driving like the Combined figures or worse still if you only do highway travel...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Also consider vehicles bought mainly for city driving where fuel usage is heaviest;
EcoLPI: 17.9 l/100 km...therefore @ 70c/litre 100 km costs $12.53 and 20,000 km costs $2506

Ecoboost: 11.8 l/100 km...therefore @ $1.40/litre 100 km costs $16.52 and 20,000 km costs $3304

I-6 Petrol: 14.6 l/100 km...therefore @ $1. 40/litre 100 km costs $20.44 and 20,000 km costs $4088

In that circumstance EcoLPI leads Ecoboost by $800 and the petrol I-6 by $1582

Even though EcoLPI Leads Ecoboost in fuel savings, the price premium means it's still more expensive for first three years of ownership.

The equation becomes worse if you do more moderate driving like the Combined figures or worse still if you only do highway travel...

But combined with the government rebate Ford say you will pay for the addition LPi price within 6 months. Or was it 12, can't remember.

LPi is way infront either way, unless you plan on keeping it for less than a year.

But its invisible to most of the population as Ford thinks LPi will sell itself, and advertise its availability itself too.

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Also consider vehicles bought mainly for city driving where fuel usage is heaviest;
EcoLPI: 17.9 l/100 km...therefore @ 70c/litre 100 km costs $12.53 and 20,000 km costs $2506

Ecoboost: 11.8 l/100 km...therefore @ $1.40/litre 100 km costs $16.52 and 20,000 km costs $3304

I-6 Petrol: 14.6 l/100 km...therefore @ $1. 40/litre 100 km costs $20.44 and 20,000 km costs $4088

In that circumstance EcoLPI leads Ecoboost by $800 and the petrol I-6 by $1582

Even though EcoLPI Leads Ecoboost in fuel savings, the price premium means it's still more expensive for first three years of ownership.

The equation becomes worse if you do more moderate driving like the Combined figures or worse still if you only do highway travel...

Yes with the EB you get economy straight away with no premium outlay like the eco lpi

[falconnut]

A ecoboost running on lpg would be very interesting.

[mik]

some people will never buy LPG even if it was a tenth the price,
because they think it every second lpg vehicle will explode and that they are so much safer in their one star sardine can petrol engined economy car that will probably fold up at the mere sight of full size car or a builder with a wheel barrow !!!
and rego is going up in mexico i believe very soon, probably our contribution to the carbon tax, so one would expect the little ecoboost to be not hit as hard as the bigger capacity engines, more choices has to be a good thing .

[mik]

Originally Posted by falconnut

A ecoboost running on lpg would be very interesting.

it would be, but i don`t think it will happen any time soon.

[Nikked]

Is the EB4 E85 compatible?

If so, that should be good for both perfomance and (up front) fuel cost...

[falconnut]

Originally Posted by mik

it would be, but i don`t think it will happen any time soon.

Surely there would be aftermarket solutions

[borough]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ecoboost has no price premium so starts saving you money right away without waiting for the fuel savings to offset the $2575 EcoLPI premium..

If you are eligible for the $2,000 government rebate on new LPG cars you are only $575 out of pocket.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by borough

If you are eligible for the $2,000 government rebate on new LPG cars you are only $575 out of pocket.

If this is the case, anyone who doesn't go EcoLPI over standard unleaded is a fool???

[redman]

Originally Posted by mik

some people will never buy LPG even if it was a tenth the price,
because they DON'T think .....

There, I fixed it for you...