The rising price (and associated costs) of Oil / Petrol Discussion Thread.

[gz1]

Speaking of huge fuel usage, was just reading in the aviation digest that commercial jet airlines world wide use 2.5 million liters of jet fuel every 5 minutes!. That's about 8,000 liters per second every day 24/7. No wonder there is a shortage on.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

So why is diesel cheaper than unleaded in other parts of the world? E.g. Europe, US, NZ? You always go for a diesel car over in Europe as diesel is cheaper to buy than petrol. I've leased and hired cars in Europe and always gone for the diesel car.

You can't compare the retail prices of these commodities because local laws and policies will affect the price differently.

In Australia though... it's simple. It's about the focus on environmental improvement, and to achieve this, the production processes are changed, are more complex and are more expensive to achieve. This all increases the 'base' price of the commodity. What happens on the retail side is variable.

With Diesel, the first benchmark was 500ppm, this then went to 50ppm from 2006 and has to be at 10ppm in 2009. That's just for Sulfur. There's several other requirements that are changing that all add to the complexity and production costs.

It's a misconception that Diesel is just a bi-product and should cost less. It's not that it's a bi-product, there is still a refining process, one which has become very complex, it's just that less crude per barrel is used to create 1Ltr of diesel compared to 1Ltr of petrol. But that difference in not enough anymore.

[BHDOGS]

i heard of some mob in queensland making diesel from coal and its gonna be super cheap or some crap

[ECOJET]

it could go to $5 a litre and theres nothing we can do

im amazed by ppl whinging about it really..
buy a smart car, get a bike, e.t.c

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

it could go to $5 a litre and theres nothing we can do

im amazed by ppl whinging about it really..
buy a smart car, get a bike, e.t.c

Some people have no choice, how does a tradesman tow his trailer on a bike ?
All we can do is buy 4 cylinder utes and keep our fingers crossed the jobs are not far from home.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

buy a smart car

: :

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by richa

This is something iv'e wondered about for awhile now,maybe a forum user can
enlighten me?.Why is it that a 5l container of motor oil bought 7rs ago say for around 30 bucks,still costs around the same today?.I'd have expected it to have gone up by at least a similar amount in
percentage terms as petrol ie somewhere around 100%?

Any ideas?

Might have something to do with the fact that it cost's the oil companies around $US5/barrel to get oil out of the ground in Saudi Arabia!...that's right $5 for every 44gal (200L) drum!!

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Some people have no choice, how does a tradesman tow his trailer on a bike ?
All we can do is buy 4 cylinder utes and keep our fingers crossed the jobs are not far from home.

there are ppl who are legitimately effected and thats understandable... tradies should consider lpg conversions though...

but too many a majority have abused it for years buying big cars in the city, see HEAPS of them with a single lone driver... lots of territorys e.t.c : makes no sense at all.. now the abuse has ruined it for the genuine people out there.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Might have something to do with the fact that it cost's the oil companies around $US5/barrel to get oil out of the ground in Saudi Arabia!...that's right $5 for every 44gal (200L) drum!!

Isn't the problem the number of people that want to BUY that Barrel, and the amount that is refined daily ?

It's not the cost of extraction - it's supply and demand.

[bicepboy]

i just bought a 3.8 litre S Sedan commodore and will be jobless very soon it depresses me that i wont be able to afford to drive it.

[bicepboy]

how many people are getting rid of there high powered cars because of this or not going out as much?

[mik]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

there are ppl who are legitimately effected and thats understandable... tradies should consider lpg conversions though...

but too many a majority have abused it for years buying big cars in the city, see HEAPS of them with a single lone driver... lots of territorys e.t.c : makes no sense at all.. now the abuse has ruined it for the genuine people out there.

sorry but i dont see it that way, i like big cars , if i want to tow a caravan or a boat at some stage i can, secondly i prefer to run my family around in the safety of a big car, and thirdly the abuse is coming from imo the oil companies and governments and fat cats bumping the price up with threat the world is gunna come to an end years down the track, there are other fuels for the internal combustion engine and fuel economy devices that the oil companies are holding, make no mistake if oil runs out one day there will be a replacement fuel, we will adapt ,it happened before when ( a different form of technology or fuel powered vehicle) the motor car took over from the horse and cart and steam, and when they profiteer to the point we can no longer afford unleaded .........we will adapt,...............end of rant:eclipsee_.

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by mik

sorry but i dont see it that way, i like big cars , if i want to tow a caravan or a boat at some stage i can, secondly i prefer to run my family around in the safety of a big car, and thirdly the abuse is coming from imo the oil companies and governments and fat cats bumping the price up with threat the world is gunna come to an end years down the track, there are other fuels for the internal combustion engine and fuel economy devices that the oil companies are holding, make no mistake if oil runs out one day there will be a replacement fuel, we will adapt ,it happened before when ( a different form of technology or fuel powered vehicle) the motor car took over from the horse and cart and steam, and when they profiteer to the point we can no longer afford unleaded .........we will adapt,...............end of rant:eclipsee_.

ppl are too quick to blame the govt and producers.... i cant believe really how CHEAP it is, can you even understand how this stuff is made, and the unimaginable demand there is for it?? again, its abuse has got us to this stage... if you dont like it, dont use it. buy an older diesel and make your own biodiesel.

[my ea s 1990]

its very simple i feel the governent should tell the fuel distributors to behave with their prices or be nationalised it worked in canada (so im told)

[ECOJET]

i think its been great technology wise too...obviously the public hates it and thus its made the manufacturers innovate and look into newer better technology... hybrids, better diesels, hydrogen, electric.. the age old 4-stroke petrol motor's days are numbered and its only gonna get better..

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by Green X

: :

itll drive u from a to b in "reasonable" comfort.. and runs on a petrol rag... if you're not towing or carrying around 5 people all the time why do u need a big falcon or any sedan?

[SB076]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

ppl are too quick to blame the govt and producers.... i cant believe really how CHEAP it is, can you even understand how this stuff is made, and the unimaginable demand there is for it?? again, its abuse has got us to this stage... if you dont like it, dont use it. buy an older diesel and make your own biodiesel.

How does your average Jo manufacture biodiesel?? When they live on an average 1/4 - 1/8 acre block. Its interesting to note that biodiesel plants are becoming uneconomical to run (due to rising food and other associated costs - biodiesel can be manufactured from food, or other plants - however there is concern that there will be food shortages which will lead to biodiesel plants competing with consumers for another restricted resource) Many of the previously planned biodiesel plants have been shelved.

Ultimately people will blame the government because of the huge amount of revenue they collect from fuel and also the lack of alternatives offered (good, relaible public transport that serves more of the community)

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by SB076

... Its interesting to note that biodiesel plants are becoming uneconomical to run (due to rising food and other associated costs - biodiesel can be manufactured from food, or other plants - however there is concern that there will be food shortages which will lead to biodiesel plants competing with consumers for another restricted resource) ...

"If the entire arable land area of the USA (470 million acres, or 1.9 million square kilometers) were devoted to biodiesel production from soy, this would just about provide the 160 million tonnes required (being the diesel fuel and home heating oil used in the United States per year)."

Link
Approx one quarter of the Australian mainland would need to be covered in and growing Soy Beans to supply the US of A with one years supply of diesel. Kinda puts it into perspective.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

itll drive u from a to b in "reasonable" comfort.. and runs on a petrol rag... if you're not towing or carrying around 5 people all the time why do u need a big falcon or any sedan?

Sorry, It's probably cheaper and more environmentally friendly for me to drive my Falcon on LPG than to purchase a hybrid car that will no doubt be running on petrol once I hit the 90km/h and 110km/h speeds I do to get to the train station every day. (Major roadworks and 25km/h speeds aside

It just doesn't suit some applications. Having said that, we've purchased the latest generation turbo diesel car as well, so I believe that I'm "doing my bit for the environment" by having a HDi with FAP and LPG.

I have a bit of a chuckle when I see a Prius up our way. I'm sure the 307 probably returns a better fuel economy and puts out less emissions that the Prius, in our situation.

[commsirac]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

I have a bit of a chuckle when I see a Prius up our way. I'm sure the 307 probably returns a better fuel economy and puts out less emissions that the Prius, in our situation.

Im assuming 307 is 307ci of something?

Sadly, its not true.
The most important emissions, CO2, from LPG powered vehicles is atm at best 5% less/km than the same vehicle on petrol.....and they are the figures that can be viewed at for newer vehicles http://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/...skWebForm.aspx.

Other harmful emissions from LPG are indeed lower, however, it is CO2 that is our pressing issue for the moment.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by commsirac

Im assuming 307 is 307ci of something?

307 is the model. See my signature, specifically the Peugeot 307. :P

http://www.peugeot.com.au/PEUGEOT/AU...nshow&FFFF1041

[gz1]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

but too many a majority have abused it for years buying big cars in the city, see HEAPS of them with a single lone driver... lots of territorys e.t.c : makes no sense at all.. now the abuse has ruined it for the genuine people out there.

If you have a family the needs a 7 seater to fit in and you only need that on weekends, wht do you drive the rest of the week?.
According to you people should get two cars, a small one for during the week and the large SUV for weekends.
That would be great and ideal if it was affordable.
You see when you have a car there are fixed costs like insurance, rego, ctp etc that are the same regardless of whether you drive the car every day or once a month. This fact makes owning a second small car unaffordable for most who then have no other real choice than to get the big car and simply drive it all the time. Hence the " heaps of them with a single lone driver" making you " not happy".

[commsirac]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

307 is the model. See my signature, specifically the Peugeot 307. :P

http://www.peugeot.com.au/PEUGEOT/AU...nshow&FFFF1041

Ah, thats a relief.....thought I must have missed the ford 307 v8!

So how does the peugeot compare with a prius on the highway cycle?

[commsirac]

Originally Posted by gz1

If you have a family the needs a 7 seater to fit in and you only need that on weekends, wht do you drive the rest of the week?.
According to you people should get two cars, a small one for during the week and the large SUV for weekends.
That would be great and ideal if it was affordable.
You see when you have a car there are fixed costs like insurance, rego, ctp etc that are the same regardless of whether you drive the car every day or once a month. This fact makes owning a second small car unaffordable for most who then have no other real choice than to get the big car and simply drive it all the time. Hence the " heaps of them with a single lone driver" making you " not happy".

Perhaps this is an area where the government could show some leadership and address. Its not people owning cars that is a problem, its driving them!
Reduce the cost of rego to a bookeeping amount and eliminate TAC insurance completely from all private vehicles. Recover the cost on a user pay prinicple(yes use it more, it will cost more...only fair) by collecting the lost revenue at the fuel bowser.
Then people could commute in the tinsy winsy car and still have their 4wD, whatever, for the few occasions when they really need it.
Accident insurance? private insurers will negotiate deals if you can specify the vehicle is low km, used only several times per month etc

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by commsirac

Ah, thats a relief.....thought I must have missed the ford 307 v8!

So how does the peugeot compare with a prius on the highway cycle?

With the wife driving, we mainly get approx 6 - 6.5l/100kms. The driving is mainly short trips though and her driving style isn't exactly efficient either. I use the Falcon during the week which are the longer trips compare to what the wife drives. We generally use the Pug on weekends for the longer trips down to Adelaide to see friends and family.
I plan to take the Peugeot on a trip to Melbourne (from Adelaide) in July, so I'm hoping to get those figures down in the low 5's, or possibly even high 4's. It's going to take 2 tanks for the entire trip. One there and one back.
We have the 2.0L HDi, but you can get a 1.6L HDi which returns even better fuel consumption.

Cruising at 110km/h in 6th gear usually shows about 4 - 4.5L/100km on the instantaneous read out on a flat road. It's great when driving down an incline and you see it drop to zero!

[gz1]

Originally Posted by commsirac

Perhaps this is an area where the government could show some leadership and address. Its not people owning cars that is a problem, its driving them!
Reduce the cost of rego to a bookeeping amount and eliminate TAC insurance completely from all private vehicles. Recover the cost on a user pay prinicple(yes use it more, it will cost more...only fair) by collecting the lost revenue at the fuel bowser.
Then people could commute in the tinsy winsy car and still have their 4wD, whatever, for the few occasions when they really need it.
Accident insurance? private insurers will negotiate deals if you can specify the vehicle is low km, used only several times per month etc

Totally 100% agree with you. Unfortunately the Government does the exact opposite. The less you drive a leased car the more tax you pay. see here
and private insurers in Sydney at least don't care how much or little you drive. The rate is the same.

[mik]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

ppl are too quick to blame the govt and producers.... i cant believe really how CHEAP it is, can you even understand how this stuff is made, and the unimaginable demand there is for it?? again, its abuse has got us to this stage... if you dont like it, dont use it. buy an older diesel and make your own biodiesel.

yes i have a clue whats involved however the blatant profiteering ie: $1.35 on monday $1.50 on friday is one form of profiteering, and recent upsurge in pump price imo is also just profiteering by fat cats manipulating markets to put the cost up to an artificial high.
If it cost is $3.00 a litre to buy and it cost $2.50 to make it and have profit for the oil companies good and well i`m happy to pay it but i just don`t think the current prices reflect a fair and reasonable barrel cost with the price going up and down weekly.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

itll drive u from a to b in "reasonable" comfort.. and runs on a petrol rag... if you're not towing or carrying around 5 people all the time why do u need a big falcon or any sedan?

Because I'm 6ft3 a smart car isn't exactly built for people like my-self. I drive 500km a week to and from work, i often do long distance country driving I like the comfort and style of a falcon, as long as i pay my Taxes and work 5-6 day's a week i will drive what ever car i feel like.

At the end of the day i will not buy that carton off beer or just work a extra 30 minutes overtime and keep driving my Falcon.

I accept that is cost money but to say the price is not being artificially inflated is a bit hard to swallow $140 down to $126 in under a week come on, the fuel price shot up soon as crude jumped, but funny thing is the fuel prices didn't drop back down as quickly when the price of crude dropped.

[full house]

I just read Diesel-dieting Audi A3 TDIe rivals Prius.
its about "A DIESEL Audi with Prius-rivalling fuel economy has been introduced in Australia. The A3 Sportback TDIe is not a revolutionary concept, but uses a series of small modifications that help it save fuel."

link
The new A3 TDIe costs $38,900, which means it is the second-cheapest model in the A3 Sportback range, sitting above the $37,200 entry-level car.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Fev

i think its a more expensive process to make diesel, or the oil thats used in it is more expensive(there are different crude oils for different things)

Diesel has an extra 17.5c excise on top of it that wasn't removed when the GST came in (the greenies didn't want more people running diesel cars in Australia). People in the transport industry can get a rebate from this but normal vehicles cant.