Why Ford will fail in Australia.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Nope, i like the 'Black Oval' for its sinister, dark side of the force depiction, it lures you in with cheap prices and trouble free ownership even if it lacks soul.

Well said.
However.
I read this week on caradvice or car expert that the Kia Cri has announced the ship is changing direction.
Kia are changing their emblem/logo.
And....... they are moving up market described in more modern different buzz words.

[kevino]

Typo should read Kia CEO

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Probably doesnt worry them one bit as they'll just flog some more high end Rangers and all will be ok in their world.

Yes, I'm well aware I'm a bit of a Ford apologist but in their defence, they see no value in that market. Why operate in a market where the price to participate is equal or higher than the revenue generated?

There is a never ending debate about low end cars promoting the brand, getting people in the dealerships, creating a following etc, but, as mentioned, thats a never ending debate. Whatever your position you could find evidence to support it one way or the other.

I'm not convinced in this day and age having sub $20k or sub $30k cars makes any difference to their ability to make a profit and stay interested and trading in australia. If it did, they would do it. End of story.

I would hazzard a guess that space on the ship would be at a premium, and if they have to prioritise that in favour of Ranger, then that is what they'll do. They'd be crazy to do otherwise. I would also suggest that most of what they bring here also gets sold, and probably even at a profit even if they have to reduce the price to move it.

[kevino]

Just on the shipping.
Different tasks on different routes.
Thai imports direct to Aus separate service.
Euros come in on a Europe/America/Paciffc/Nz/Aus service or reverse.
Different shipping companies and the Euro service is a complicated expensive beast.
Thai volumes are such that dedicated vessels run a circle Thailand/Aus via possibly in between countries.
Used to work in shipping / ports some time back don’t think it’s changed too much.
If you remember the vessel Tampa and John Howard and a bunch of potential refugees that was a euro round the world roll on roll off vehicle/ machinery vessel.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Yes, I'm well aware I'm a bit of a Ford apologist but in their defence, they see no value in that market. Why operate in a market where the price to participate is equal or higher than the revenue generated?

There is a never ending debate about low end cars promoting the brand, getting people in the dealerships, creating a following etc, but, as mentioned, thats a never ending debate. Whatever your position you could find evidence to support it one way or the other.

I'm not convinced in this day and age having sub $20k or sub $30k cars makes any difference to their ability to make a profit and stay interested and trading in australia. If it did, they would do it. End of story.

I would hazzard a guess that space on the ship would be at a premium, and if they have to prioritise that in favour of Ranger, then that is what they'll do. They'd be crazy to do otherwise. I would also suggest that most of what they bring here also gets sold, and probably even at a profit even if they have to reduce the price to move it.

Awesome, so what you're saying to young people is go and buy your sub 30k Kia/Hyundai/MG etc. enjoy your trouble free motoring experience and when you get old enough and cashed up we'll be here waiting to milk you for our shareholders.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by prydey

Yes, I'm well aware I'm a bit of a Ford apologist but in their defence, they see no value in that market. Why operate in a market where the price to participate is equal or higher than the revenue generated?

There is a never ending debate about low end cars promoting the brand, getting people in the dealerships, creating a following etc, but, as mentioned, thats a never ending debate. Whatever your position you could find evidence to support it one way or the other.

I'm not convinced in this day and age having sub $20k or sub $30k cars makes any difference to their ability to make a profit and stay interested and trading in australia. If it did, they would do it. End of story.

I would hazzard a guess that space on the ship would be at a premium, and if they have to prioritise that in favour of Ranger, then that is what they'll do. They'd be crazy to do otherwise. I would also suggest that most of what they bring here also gets sold, and probably even at a profit even if they have to reduce the price to move it.

You can bet that Hyundai and Kia are keeping a close eye on the Ranger and doing all their costing.When they reckon the time is right( next year,2years on) They will build a twin cab 4x4 at a better price and blown the high priced Rangers out of the market,if the Chinese don’t beat them to it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Awesome, so what you're saying to young people is go and buy your sub 30k Kia/Hyundai/MG etc. enjoy your trouble free motoring experience and when you get old enough and cashed up we'll be here waiting to milk you for our shareholders.

I just made the connection, that ~$30k entry point here converts to US$20K which is now
Ford's entry point price in the US. So same as here, Ford is asking US buyers to pay more.

So yeah, company policy at work......this is what I've been saying for a while, Ford sees
all those lower priced vehicles as dragging down the results of more profitable products,
they're now focused on 8% to 10% return and cutting product that stops it happening.

[kevino]

The Puma vs Escape pricing is odd.
Comments jpd80

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

You can bet that Hyundai and Kia are keeping a close eye on the Ranger and doing all their costing.When they reckon the time is right( next year,2years on) They will build a twin cab 4x4 at a better price and blown the high priced Rangers out of the market,if the Chinese don’t beat them to it.

Ranger doesn't sell well by accident. The fact it can outperform Toyota in sales should say something. People are prepared to buy ranger over hilux. It's a good product.

Others have tried beating them both on price but have failed.

It's like some actually want Ford to fail.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

The Puma vs Escape pricing is odd.
Comments jpd80

My research suggests that the base Puma here is actually called Titanium in the UK

Check it out at Ford.co.uk

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

Ranger doesn't sell well by accident. The fact it can outperform Toyota in sales should say something. People are prepared to buy ranger over hilux. It's a good product.

Others have tried beating them both on price but have failed.

It's like some actually want Ford to fail.

What's being missed is that a lower price doesn't guarantee a home run, Hyundai/Kia will
probably draw more people into the ute market rather than just conquesting Ranger and
Hilux sales.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What's being missed is that a lower price doesn't guarantee a home run, Hyundai/Kia will
probably draw more people into the ute market rather than just conquesting Ranger and
Hilux sales.

Makes me wonder why they're yet to enter the market, remember Kia's 2900 truck thing, you still see them around Melbourne occasionally, always blowing out blue smoke doing 75 in 100 zone at the slightest sign of a hill

[kevino]

Utes are 1 in 4 of new sales here.

I don’t know too much about Korea which is Hyundai Kia home market.
Are utes a big seller in Korea?
Some countries use vans more than utes.
I guess Hyundai Kia might want the security blanket of sales in their home market.
Any Korean Ford Forumers?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I just made the connection, that ~$30k entry point here converts to US$20K which is now
Ford's entry point price in the US. So same as here, Ford is asking US buyers to pay more.

So yeah, company policy at work......this is what I've been saying for a while, Ford sees
all those lower priced vehicles as dragging down the results of more profitable products,
they're now focused on 8% to 10% return and cutting product that stops it happening.

Farley has said he wants to bring in some cheaper vehicles. Realises the entry cost is too high atm. So we will see some movement on this soon.

And it looks like here they are being more competitive with drive away pricing on puma and escape. Probably admitting the prices have been a bit too high.

[Franco Cozzo]

Ford loves the musical CEOs, happened to Ford Australia, happening in Ford USA, someone comes in, makes decisions, someone new comes in, radical changes, someone new comes in reverses decisions.

Must be chaos being the guys lower down the chain who are in charge of certain divisions, so much work would get scrapped left right and centre.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Makes me wonder why they're yet to enter the market, remember Kia's 2900 truck thing, you still see them around Melbourne occasionally, always blowing out blue smoke doing 75 in 100 zone at the slightest sign of a hill

yep you still see the odd about.
complete with their inbuilt weirdness. You have to carry 2 Spare Tyres as the Front Wheels are a different size to the Back ones...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Farley has said he wants to bring in some cheaper vehicles. Realises the entry cost is too high atm. So we will see some movement on this soon.

And it looks like here they are being more competitive with drive away pricing on puma and escape. Probably admitting the prices have been a bit too high.

Why, if its counter productive to profit as we get told?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why, if its counter productive to profit as we get told?

Probably because it’s easier to drop the price than raise it.
Ford has a new leader who’s more of a car guy than the last,
I think he knows that things aren’t right.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Probably because it’s easier to drop the price than raise it.
Ford has a new leader who’s more of a car guy than the last,
I think he knows that things aren’t right.

Sorry, the question was with regard to bringing in cheaper cars, guys like yourself and Boss have repeatrdly spruiked Fords refusal to operate in this area of the market because they dont need to or its counter productive.

I love this ****, people criticise Ford for not having affordable entry level cars, the experts tell us its not worth it.
In comes someone with a clue and suddenly its the work of a genius to offer affordable entry level cars

We dont want to be known as a V8 car company, nek minnit, here have this SC V8, we dont want to sell cheap cars, nek minnit, i think we should sell cheap cars..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sorry, the question was with regard to bringing in cheaper cars, guys like yourself and Boss have repeatrdly spruiked Fords refusal to operate in this area of the market because they dont need to or its counter productive.

I love this ****, people criticise Ford for not having affordable entry level cars, the experts tell us its not worth it.
In comes someone with a clue and suddenly its the work of a genius to offer affordable entry level cars

We dont want to be known as a V8 car company, nek minnit, here have this SC V8, we dont want to sell cheap cars, nek minnit, i think we should sell cheap cars..

Ford marketing is like those big waving arm things you see in front of vacuum cleaner stores - you don't know which direction it's going to flop and twist around.

Their messaging is constantly twisting and changing and they change strategy like underwear with a new king at the round table every 2 seconds.

[Polyal]

Ford never really pushed the quality/value of their small car range well enough.

Either that segment didnt care (likely, is price driven) or people didnt see the extra $$ resulting in a better image or quality of product.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ford marketing is like those big waving arm things you see in front of vacuum cleaner stores - you don't know which direction it's going to flop and twist around.

Their messaging is constantly twisting and changing and they change strategy like underwear with a new king at the round table every 2 seconds.

Agreed, and im sure the usual suspects will dazzle us with their inside knowledge and declare it all as moving with the times and being adaptable, bravo, jolly good ol' chaps.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sorry, the question was with regard to bringing in cheaper cars, guys like yourself and Boss have repeatrdly spruiked Fords refusal to operate in this area of the market because they dont need to or its counter productive.

I love this ****, people criticise Ford for not having affordable entry level cars, the experts tell us its not worth it.
In comes someone with a clue and suddenly its the work of a genius to offer affordable entry level cars.

There's a difference between spruiking a plan and simply explaining why they're doing it.

I've often said in the past that insisting on a higher return percentage means that a lot of
low margin vehicles must go - that is something I don't entirely agree with but what are
we to do?

As I've said earlier, the issue is the way they perceive markets outside the USA as loss
making and a drain on home base profits. Farley has worked for Mazda and Toyota,
he has a broader view of the industry than Jim Hackett did, so hope of change is there
as he's acknowledged that prices here are a bit high.

[Romulus]

Ford lost me after the Falcon ended. I'll buy the Transit product as it suits our commercial needs, but as for passenger or SUV products I'll be jumping ship to BMW.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There's a difference between spruiking a plan and simply explaining why they're doing it.

I've often said in the past that insisting on a higher return percentage means that a lot of
low margin vehicles must go - that is something I don't entirely agree with but what are
we to do?

As I've said earlier, the issue is the way they perceive markets outside the USA as loss
making and a drain on home base profits. Farley has worked for Mazda and Toyota,
he has a broader view of the industry than Jim Hackett did, so hope of change is there
as he's acknowledged that prices here are a bit high.

Well then Jim Hacketts a bloody idiot because i have bugger all view of the industry but even i knew cutting those entry level cars was a mistake, should submit my resume, couldnt be any worse than the muppets running the circus now.

[FTE217]

why he was called Hatchett

I have wondered many times what has gone through the Ford family heads regards to appointments, boardroom and shareholder pressures is one thing but some decisions could have been better, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Ford family (2% equity; 40% voting power)

Farley does have a 1000% regime compared to Fields/Hatchett but is it all too little too late, so much lost.
Anyway I wish them well, I'll cherish my Falcons but I doubt I'll buy another new Ford.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by FTE217

why he was called Hatchett

I have wondered many times what has gone through the Ford family heads regards to appointments, boardroom and shareholder pressures is one thing but some decisions could have been better, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Ford family (2% equity; 40% voting power)

Farley does have a 1000% regime compared to Fields/Hatchett but is it all too little too late, so much lost.
Anyway I wish them well, I'll cherish my Falcons but I doubt I'll buy another new Ford.

Everyone makes mistakes, hindsight is a wonderful thing but this mob just keeps making one stupid decision after another and thats fine, they get paid well to make them, what annoys me is when joe average like myself suggests they've misread the market and get condascending responses by those spruiking the party line with their inside intel only to see a policy backflip 10 minutes later when they realise they ****ed up and those same spruikers then go on to tell you about the genius deciscion thats been made at HQ that contradicts everything before it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FTE217

why he was called Hatchett

I have wondered many times what has gone through the Ford family heads regards to appointments, boardroom and shareholder pressures is one thing but some decisions could have been better, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Ford family (2% equity; 40% voting power)

Farley does have a 1000% regime compared to Fields/Hatchett but is it all too little too late, so much lost.
Anyway I wish them well, I'll cherish my Falcons but I doubt I'll buy another new Ford.

Ford family has control of the voting thanks to its special B stock, original unsplit stock bought by HF.

It's a simple equation for Ford in Australia, only they can change the situation, can't make buyers like products.
I'm hoping that more US domestic success with products like the Broncos may help them grow a set and try exports.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford family has control of the voting thanks to its special B stock, original unspoilt stock bought by HF.

It's a simple equation for Ford in Australia, only they can change the situation, can't make buyers like products.
I'm hoping that more US domestic success with products like the Broncos may help them grow a set and try exports.

why I mentioned the 40% voting power.
Ford here can only do what the mother ship allows as we all know.
If you don't have the required support needed no matter what company/products Export wise you got bucklys.
What difference will it make how Bronco sells in Nth America for us, Mustang/Explorer sells well there as well.
We got one watered down version the other, not.
I like your faith behind them jpd but the record stands and I feel Detroits reluctance towards us due to how much has been invested and then lost over the years.
Myself in Farleys shoes wouldn't even bat an eyelid looking at Australias future ROI.

[Franco Cozzo]

Even decisions like the new Fiesta ST - 5 door only for Australia (WTF?) and no factory option of Mountune
package covered by Ford factory warranty.

Old boy was interested in the new Fiesta ST to replace his WZ but 5 doors and no Mountune options pack sees him keep his car, 5 doors is lame and and to buy a new car making less power and torque than his with the Mountune options pack? Pass.

The dealership we bought it from new didn't even know the Mountune package was even an option, their own sales staff! They probably cut this option because no one bought it, because their own dealership network didn't even know about it.