DSC - What does it ACTUALLY do?

[MITCHAY]

ABS is designed to help you maintain control not necessarily stop shorter. A lot more useful if you can steer and perhaps not spin out. I wouldn't want to do without it.

These systems are designed for the average person for whom a car's only purpose is to get from A to B.

Personally I disable DSC, ESP, TC (whatever you call it) when possible if it is dry because I find it to be very restrictive. Although in the wet pretty good idea to have it on in a powerful car.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by Danny

FFS... They're not designed to make you go faster!!!

They're designed to be a safety net in times of emergency. The foolish notion that Sabine can pilot an Audi R8 faster around a track without ESC would be liitle consolation to someone who may have had a loved one who died swerving for a kid in a non esc equipped car..... How bloody ridiculous.

I agree but would like to expand on your comment, if I may.

They're not designed to make you go faster! It's just an obvious side effect that ESC allows the average driver to go faster, simply because most people would never survive driving a powerful car at full-speed without ESC. It is purely about reducing the chance of "catastrophic failure".

There are few drivers in the world that are incapable of controlling an Audi R8 at 100% around a track like the Nürburgring without having the safety systems enabled. The record-setting lap with all of the electronic gizmos enabled would have been 10x sketchier than the 7-second-slower lap with safety crap enabled.

The "ESC off" button should say "an hero" instead.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

ABS is designed to help you maintain control not necessarily stop shorter. A lot more useful if you can steer and perhaps not spin out. I wouldn't want to do without it.

These systems are designed for the average person for whom a car's only purpose is to get from A to B.

Personally I disable DSC, ESP, TC (whatever you call it) when possible if it is dry because I find it to be very restrictive. Although in the wet pretty good idea to have it on in a powerful car.

Probably because you drive an old POS with ancient systems that are crap?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by whynot

I wrote up my experiences here

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11207751

Article dates from Feb 2008. It describes in detail my experiences with ABS and ESC (DSC) on the skidpad.

So decade old systems then..... Yeah that's current feedback of the capabilities of current systems....

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Probably because you drive an old POS with ancient systems that are crap?

I drive a MY03 WRX as a daily for reference but have driven a few modern cars with all these systems. Yes it is very dated but funny you assume I drive an old POS by my post which I thought was balanced.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I drive a MY03 WRX as a daily for reference but have driven a few modern cars with all these systems. Yes it is very dated but funny you assume I drive an old POS by my post which I thought was balanced.

Sorry, I was rude, on the cans. But seriously your car is BA era. As I said before every couple of years the capabilities of these systems makes a generational leap. FG MKi to FG MKii was the biggest leap I felt in Falcon model changes in the DSC systems .

I know in my work testing motorcycles the latest systems now, such as Bosch 9MB, are pretty amazing, we now have lean angle sensitive ABS even on bikes. Where the ABS response is also tailored to how much lean angle the bike is carrying at the time. And bikes such as the latest KTM 1190 Adventure R have ABS off-road modes that even work on loose shaly crap down steep inclines.

Same as the traction control systems in their sport or race modes have interventions that are so tiny and so fast that in many instances they are almost imperceptible while operating.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by whynot

Still not sure what make/model vehicle we are discussing here. Ever since ABS came out in Australia, ALL Australian manufacturers (Ford, GMH, Mitsubishi) have "deep pulse" settings on their ABS. The deep pulse deliberately allows the pad to grab and lock the rotor, thereby allowing the tyre to bite through the gravel on dirt roads to the soil underneath. This overcomes the issue of ABS on loose stones. A read through old Wheels magazines should find an article or three were this setting in the Australian ABS is discussed at length.

"Marble-gravel" is not a geological feature restricted to just Australia. Most overseas countries have it as well.

2015 Mitsubishi Lancer GSR that I did test and it was just so much worse than my old 2003 VY SS, the SS would sort of lock on and off hopeless like, but the GSR does not lock at all really and I was shocked at how dangerous it was to drive as it gave no confidence at all in braking on that stuff.

And I have yet to test the 375 KW 2016 VF SS out on that type of road, I will let you know when I do.

I have not tested the wife's 2013 Toyota Aurion out on that type of road yet as it's about 200KM away from home that a excellent back road is for that. a lot of roo's out there so you need good braking power.

[Qwerty321]

If you wanted to turn off the ABS on loose seal. Couldn't you just pull the fuse?

Never tried this, but I vaguely remember an ABS fuse when I was poking around the fuse box a while back.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Qwerty321

If you wanted to turn off the ABS on loose seal. Couldn't you just pull the fuse?

Never tried this, but I vaguely remember an ABS fuse when I was poking around the fuse box a while back.

I know, but I have never done it yet, if I could rig up a switch would be the go, so I feel safe with the roo's. but I am sure some warning chime or other will drive me up the wall.
Core that stability control warning doesn't half come on anyroad.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Sorry, I was rude, on the cans. But seriously your car is BA era. As I said before every couple of years the capabilities of these systems makes a generational leap. FG MKi to FG MKii was the biggest leap I felt in Falcon model changes in the DSC systems.

While it is true that the systems advance dramatically over each new generation, you have ignored the fact that Subaru pioneered the use of electronic assistance. The systems in this bloke's Subaru are so much better than those in a BA that it's almost laughable to compare them.

[Crazy Dazz]

I remember years ago, when ABS was first a thing, Modern Motor did this brilliant all-out testing, where they proved a professional driver (they used a well known Touring Car driver) could match ABS for stopping distance on a dry road.
Australian Motoring Journalism at its Finest

Personally, as someone who has driven all sorts of wagons, utes, and buses, on all types of unsealed surfaces, in many different locations. I think the old chestnut about ABS on "gravel" is largely BS. The idea that you can magically cut through some top layer to a hard surface underneath certainly is. Roads aren't designed that way.
Such an occurrence may exist in particular places, but its certainly not normal or ubiquitous. Unless you get out and inspect every section of raod before braking, how would you know?

In the distant past, the surface I found ABS had most problems with was when dry dusty areas with minimal stone were rapidly flooded producing extremely deep sloppy mud. However the Rangers we had in Viet Nam coped fine with this

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I remember years ago, when ABS was first a thing, Modern Motor did this brilliant all-out testing, where they proved a professional driver (they used a well known Touring Car driver) could match ABS for stopping distance on a dry road.
Australian Motoring Journalism at its Finest

Personally, as someone who has driven all sorts of wagons, utes, and buses, on all types of unsealed surfaces, in many different locations. I think the old chestnut about ABS on "gravel" is largely BS. The idea that you can magically cut through some top layer to a hard surface underneath certainly is. Roads aren't designed that way.
Such an occurrence may exist in particular places, but its certainly not normal or ubiquitous. Unless you get out and inspect every section of raod before braking, how would you know?

In the distant past, the surface I found ABS had most problems with was when dry dusty areas with minimal stone were rapidly flooded producing extremely deep sloppy mud. However the Rangers we had in Viet Nam coped fine with this

I don't know about the cutting through the top layer is true but some say that is that case, all I truly know is ABS does scare the hell out of me in emergence stoping on loose surfaces, I hit that roo and I knew I would of just missed it if it was not for that stupid ABS crap and that was due to a bitumen paddy rolled road coming through a sharp bend all that loose crap on the road, what happened is that I felt it just release the braking force in that moment enough that it made the difference. I was p'ed off bloody ABS crap I said, I know it for a absolute fact and it sticks out like dogs balls to me.

I have been able to tell if a tyre is down by 4 psi as some tyres are touchy with pressures you have to have pressure between X and Y or they just don't work to there best performance ability, now most people would just reject that statement.
So it comes down to an dilatants view point of what they have read and they have only experienced over a masters like me, hell back in 1995 I set my non ABS VS ute braking up by fine tuning the proportioning valve by testing until it was spot on and went for better brake pads that were just so much more powerful it was like magic, it could stop maybe in the same distance from 200KM/H from what std would take in from 100KM/H in a factory stock VS now most people will think that is BS, but it's true.
Hell when my wife's VS commodore had did 100,000KM and needed new brake pads, her old man put standard crap in it, so one day with it loaded up going on a trip I tested the brakes out at 110KM/H I hit them as hard as I could no ABS mind and the bastard did not even lock up, and that's the crap that most idiots buy ! I had a go at the brake mob about it as well d--kheads s for brains morons lost and off with the pixies selling 3rd rate rubbish.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

There are few drivers in the world that are incapable of controlling an Audi R8 at 100% around a track like the Nürburgring without having the safety systems enabled.

To clarify, I meant to say "There are few drivers in the world that are capable..."

My OCD won't let me leave the glaring error there without at least trying to correct it.

[kypez]

I find it funny that people are talking Braking distances and ABS. Of course you can out brake ABS. The whole point of ABS is to unlock a locked brake. Dont lock it, and it will allow you to pull up quicker and in shorter distance.

ABS is necessary when you slam on the anchors and still want to steer the car and dont have time to be progressive in your braking! Its for EMERGENCY situation or when you've got it wrong and still want a second chance (like on Gravel, in the wet, some clown pulls out in front of you and you need to change directions multiple times, i.e. right then hard left, etc.).

ABS allows you to keep steering as a locked wheel doesnt change direction.

As for DSC and Traction control, as with many motorbikes/cars and on the super aggressive systems, you might find them faster than non driver aid, especially when conditions are less than ideal. Sure single lap shootouts wont tell the whole story. Its when you get it wrong, you live to talk about it.

[Danny]

I was on the Western Freeway early this morning on the way to Ballarat in the XR6T. Had the cruise set to 110km/h speed limit and changed lanes to go around a slower car.

The car squimed, went all floaty and slightly slid left and then right - at 110km/h...... It was the first time I ever hit black ice, to boot it was in a 270kw ute, and so I shatbrix. However, before I had even realised what was happening, the DSC light was flashing on the dashboard, by the time I realised that it was black ice and went cold with the realisation that I was about to probably be in a massive accident, the sliding stopped, the DSC light turned off and I was able to slow down to 50km/h until the icy part of the freeway had passed.

About another K up the road, a Pajero had rolled over from hitting the ice.

Anyone who says that they turn off the DSC every time they get in because they know better is an idiot and a fool, today marked the first time I ever truly thanked the automotive gods for DSC...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Danny

I was on the Western Freeway early this morning on the way to Ballarat in the XR6T. Had the cruise set to 110km/h speed limit and changed lanes to go around a slower car.

The car squimed, went all floaty and slightly slid left and then right - at 110km/h...... It was the first time I ever hit black ice, to boot it was in a 270kw ute, and so I shatbrix. However, before I had even realised what was happening, the DSC light was flashing on the dashboard, by the time I realised that it was black ice and went cold with the realisation that I was about to probably be in a massive accident, the sliding stopped, the DSC light turned off and I was able to slow down to 50km/h until the icy part of the freeway had passed.

About another K up the road, a Pajero had rolled over from hitting the ice.

Anyone who says that they turn off the DSC every time they get in because they know better is an idiot and a fool, today marked the first time I ever truly thanked the automotive gods for DSC...

I have never heard of anyone saying they will turn off the DSC, but for on some type of dirt roads and it's only truly because they know the fact better then the average bear.