Are we car enthusiasts being weeded out?

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by fte50

I think its more to do with looking like being front hit with a Kenworth, whilst having a Western Star falling on top of it.

could of look like the GTS, a previous Hyundai Elentra headlights with a BMW wannabe grille and don't for get the mazda 6 rear end

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Looks are subjective...hard to call the VF a good looking car for many...

I actually don't mind the look of the VF commodore range, except ute and HSV offerings.

[93EB_SXR6]

I really don't like the word "Falcadore".
Doesn't seem witty or clever to me at all any more, especially when it's dropped in every other post.

I like Falcons (and Commodores) as much as the next guy but the reality is they just weren't selling. As far as depreciation goes; my mate bought a fully optioned 2011 VE Calais for $24K six months ago - It cost $55K brand new. Whoever bought it new must still be feeling that one.

Yes, it's going to be a sad day when we no longer have the option to buy a new Falcon (or Commodore) but most brand enthusiasts will move on. Car enthusiasts in general already have.

[Express]

Originally Posted by fte50

Argue till your red in the face, the enthusiast will always live BUT they will never make a new purchase with the same bang for $$ value and unique RWD sedan layout our locals offered.......

Stock for stock performance cars of the 30’s don’t perform like the cars of today, neither do cars from the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s or 70’s including the HO & A9X.

Performance cars of the 80’s & 90’s are slow in comparison to cars of today.

Today AMG makes a small turbo 4 cylinder in AWD drive that sticks it too most other cars on the road and of the local cars it takes a supercharged V8 GT or HSV to hold it at bay.

Cars keep evolving getting faster, handling better and are more efficient while doing so.

Yours is a big statement and one that history has proven to be invalid.

Who knows in 10 years time what cars will be capable of compared to what’s on offer today let alone what will be available in 20 years’ time.





Another point, the thread appears to be hung up on late model performance cars or performance cars in general as being the ‘is all and end all’ when talking car enthusiast. The truth is they are not.

If it has 4 wheels there are enthusiasts for it. Stop and have a think about how wide spread the car enthusiast net is.



.

[wookie836]

i keep seeing performance, i didnt know that the common ss or xr8 was really considered a performance car? by the sounds of it, every enthusiast is driving a clubsport, maloo, f6 or GT.
Did i miss something or is everyone just referring to HSVs and FPV's as the performance car?

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

Are we car enthusiasts being weeded out?
With the commodore and falcon being retired, i cant but think that car enthusiasts are also being thrown out with the bath water.

The younger generation seem to have a diminishing interest in cars with many of their car choices not really supported in the aftermarket modifications. The younger seem more content with styling over substance, cars being throw away items when they are not cool in their social circles or in the carpark at work.

Then there is us... we recognised falcon and commodore for many years for their substance and unique style, not afraid to be labelled hoons or bogans. But with no falcon or commodore many of us will likely grow up and mature our tastes into something more credible on a social level (amongst non car enthusiasts). Still fast cars but likely to leave them in factory spec due to lack of aftermarket support, or excessive cost to custom modify.

So do we just down tools and move on? Im pretty disappointed about the state of affairs but it seems inevitable, find a new hobby? Just evaluate cars on their specification /performance off the factory floor.

where do you see car enthusiasts in 10 years?? Live on or will we be weeded out?

In case you missed it, Ford just announced it is taking the Mustang global. I know, I know it probably won't touch the G6E, and won't deliver the exhilarating performance in terms of acceleration and handling that you got with the AU Fairmont Ghia or the NC Fairlane, but a 230Kw turbo 4 with 400NM @ 2000 rpm, and a 330 Kw V8 in a car that weighs 1.45 tonnes should be ok. Look, I know it will be still slow and it's designed for people who hate cars, but at least it will be slightly better than a Camry. Seriously what??? You not seen the Focus ST and Fiesta ST is popular among young enthusiasts either? Just because your definition of car enthusiasm is 4 door RWD sedans, doesn't make that everyone else's definition. Us older generation kids were influenced by 1970s muscle cars, we want cars that remind us of that. But obviously millennials didn't. The current Mustang should satisfy the traditional folks as well as accommodate those who focus on fun, fast, while still being affordable to drive. I can see it stealing customers from all over the place. Camaro, Commodore, Charger, Challenger, Toyota 86, WRX. Heck the 4 cylinder might get them in the showroom, and some may drive off with the V8. But a bad time for enthusiasts? Give me a break, I don't think there has been a better time!

[jimmyxr6t04]

Interesting thread... I've owned and modified falcons for the best part of 9 years now, since i bought a new BA XR6T. I love them for what they are, relatively cheap and great bang for buck in the power stakes.

As sad as it is that there won't be anymore, i'm already turning my attention to the new Mustang. And after the mustang, who knows what Chev might bring here? Failing that, i might pick up a second hand euro and explore what they have to offer.

In 5 years i might be able to nab a second hand E63 merc, with bi turbo V8 for under 100k... I'm sure i can get pretty motivated to be enthusiastic about that car!!

The point is, Falcon and Commodore are not the be all/end all for Aussie enthusiasts.

If the "enthusiast" doesn't evolve, then that particular enthusiast will die with the falcon... So, for those that can't evolve, go and buy a last of falcon and modify it till your hearts content, enjoy it, as your lack of 'enthusiasm' for other cars will keep you in the shadows of evolution...

[TC200six]

A Falcon isn't normally considered a true performance car because it has 4 doors. True performance cars have 2 doors. IMO a Falcon is a standard car that comes in performance trims, not a true performance car. If you want to bring handling into the mix, well that's another thing.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Danny

Which variant was the perfect all rounder mate? Be more specific, because anything lower than a G6ET/XR6T or an SS ISN'T even a performance cars a$sho!e. Last time I checked, "enthusiasts" DO NOT drive the Base model falcons or C'dores. The XT falcon and Exec/Evoke commodores are sluggish, boring, plastic (not just confined to the base model) transport driven by people who don't care, or of whom had the cars forced upon them as a company car..

I can understand the dubious labelling of the highest FPV's and HSV's as "performance" (no matter how loosely they fit the mould), and I agree that they do have a following of enthusiasts. But don't try to tell me that anything less than the Turbo and V8 variants appeal to performance enthusiasts BECAUSE THEY DON'T.

Obviously true, but apart from the individual high end exotics, nearly every other performance enthusiast type vehicle available stems from a less desirable base spec model.
The logic of your argument applies to the majority of every other maker, so what is your point.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Danny

Which variant was the perfect all rounder mate? Be more specific, because anything lower than a G6ET/XR6T or an SS ISN'T even a performance cars a$sho!e. Last time I checked, "enthusiasts" DO NOT drive the Base model falcons or C'dores. The XT falcon and Exec/Evoke commodores are sluggish, boring, plastic (not just confined to the base model) transport driven by people who don't care, or of whom had the cars forced upon them as a company car..

I can understand the dubious labelling of the highest FPV's and HSV's as "performance" (no matter how loosely they fit the mould), and I agree that they do have a following of enthusiasts. But don't try to tell me that anything less than the Turbo and V8 variants appeal to performance enthusiasts BECAUSE THEY DON'T.

Couldnt agree more.

Dont feed the troll mate thats all he is. Manages to bring the same old opinion into every thread posted on here.

Broken record springs to mind.

As for being weeded out i highly doubt that is being happening because aussie cars are going.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by fte50

Obviously true, but apart from the individual high end exotics, nearly every other performance enthusiast type vehicle available stems from a less desirable base spec model.
The logic of your argument applies to the majority of every other maker, so what is your point.

Exactly right. I would have thought that it was blindingly obvious that I was talking about performance versions of Falcons/Commodores and NOT base models, yet the usual suspects deliberately try to twist everything I say around in a pathetic attempt to discredit me.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by TC200six

A Falcon isn't normally considered a true performance car because it has 4 doors. True performance cars have 2 doors. IMO a Falcon is a standard car that comes in performance trims, not a true performance car. If you want to bring handling into the mix, well that's another thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_car -

A performance car is an automobile that is designed and constructed specifically for speed. The design and construction of a performance car involves not only providing a capable power train but also providing the handling and braking systems to support it.

Performance cars are road vehicles, capable of providing transport. Specially designed racing cars are not normally regarded as performance cars, but performance cars are often raced.

There is a great deal of overlap between performance cars and sports cars, but not all performance cars are sports cars, and not all sports cars are performance cars. The MG TC, for example, is a prototypical sports car, but even by the standards of its day was unexceptional in its performance.

Similarly, some hot rods are performance cars, but many hot rods are either built for show rather than for performance, or are not intended to be roadworthy, or both. Those hot rods that are built for on-road performance tend to emphasise straight line speed and acceleration, and in this they represent one extreme of a continuum of performance cars, the opposite extreme of which is represented by cars that emphasise handling rather than straight line speed, such as the Lotus Elise.

Is this a valid explanation?

cheers, Maka

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Maka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_car -

A performance car is an automobile that is designed and constructed specifically for speed. The design and construction of a performance car involves not only providing a capable power train but also providing the handling and braking systems to support it.

Performance cars are road vehicles, capable of providing transport. Specially designed racing cars are not normally regarded as performance cars, but performance cars are often raced.

There is a great deal of overlap between performance cars and sports cars, but not all performance cars are sports cars, and not all sports cars are performance cars. The MG TC, for example, is a prototypical sports car, but even by the standards of its day was unexceptional in its performance.

Similarly, some hot rods are performance cars, but many hot rods are either built for show rather than for performance, or are not intended to be roadworthy, or both. Those hot rods that are built for on-road performance tend to emphasise straight line speed and acceleration, and in this they represent one extreme of a continuum of performance cars, the opposite extreme of which is represented by cars that emphasise handling rather than straight line speed, such as the Lotus Elise.

Is this a valid explanation?

cheers, Maka

In before the "Wikipedia isn't a credible source AND YOU EDITED IT TO PUT YOUR POINT IN THERE!".

[Bill M]

Wow! this thread has turned to crap fast!

I was under the impression Ford forums had a place for ALL car enthusiasts.
Obviously there is a fair degree of snobbery here

I have a preference for Aussie built as some of you may have picked up but after driving a Focus ST170 at a Ford drive day 10 years ago (That went quick!)
I was smitten with the "on rails" handling. Still ****ed that Ford AUS dropped the Focus build plan here and so was the Govt of the day.

The euro exotica AMG and BMW M series are fantastic vehicles but are not affordable new and in used form can be a spiraling money pit due to complicated drive lines and electronics.

As for bang for the buck the large Aussie rear drive is hard to beat, I can service it myself and parts are available relatively cheap and I like large cars as I find the driver's space comfortable.
The writing was on the wall when the Turbo fours came in and I believe this is reflected worldwide

The real challenge for the car interest fraternity is legislation not the cessation of large rear drive car production in Australia.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by stevz

Yes, to be more specific I was referring mainly to the fwd buzz boxes and other generic rubbish that the Australian public seems to be infatuated with these days. If you look at the vfacts figures there is barely a desirable car to be seen in the top 20.

Probably see those cars in the top 20 because the majority of the public are not car enthusiasts.
There are still car guys(and girls) every where in all types of cars. Performance or not.
Did you know some car enthusiasts are not actually into performance at all. Strange hey? Not everyone likes the exact same things as you.

If all straight, male car enthuisits are supposed to like flacodoores I have some bad new for my missus.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

In before the "Wikipedia isn't a credible source AND YOU EDITED IT TO PUT YOUR POINT IN THERE!".

Ok, i'll put it in now - it dont matter how many doors a performance car has....... it'll still go like a shower of #$%^.

cheers, Maka

[thefargo]

Car enthusiasts may own cars that are older than they are. Just because a make is no longer in production does not mean it won't be appreciated. I enjoy reading the xa, xb, xc threads, and while I am older than those cars, not all who appreciate them are.
Pottery, I own a coupe, 2 doors. I am too old and ugly to be either a poof or a hairdresser, and I'm sure all the ute owners would not fit your generalisation.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by TC200six

A Falcon isn't normally considered a true performance car because it has 4 doors. True performance cars have 2 doors. IMO a Falcon is a standard car that comes in performance trims, not a true performance car. If you want to bring handling into the mix, well that's another thing.

So cars like AMG 63's, BMW M5 etc etc aren't true performance cars? Ok whatever you say.

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Straya mate

two doors are for hairdressers and poofs

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

Exactly right. I would have thought that it was blindingly obvious that I was talking about performance versions of Falcons/Commodores and NOT base models, yet the usual suspects deliberately try to twist everything I say around in a pathetic attempt to discredit me.

...and?


You discredit the whole world to suit your opinion.


We get it, your sad because we don't have local cars, your worlds over. Thankfully, the rest of us can live a happy life while you cry your self to sleep at night.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

That issue is mostly due the RHD conversion costs. Seeing as how we dont allow new LHD cars zee Germans convert a small number of cars for us, jacking up the price.

Where did you read that? Do you think Australia is the only rhd market in the world? Beemers and mercs sold here are not converted from lhd.

The reason they're dearer is because of the luxury car tax, and the fact that the Australian market is dumb enough to pay what they ask, so why sell them cheaper... It's called the Australia tax.

[jamies]

The game changed when the Ford Sierra's and Nissan GTR's dominated Bathurst..

[Maka]

Originally Posted by jamies

The game changed when the Ford Sierra's and Nissan GTR's dominated Bathurst..

No, it was when the latest falcador's were left out of Forza... true story!

cheers, Maka

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Where did you read that? Do you think Australia is the only rhd market in the world? Beemers and mercs sold here are not converted from lhd.

The reason they're dearer is because of the luxury car tax, and the fact that the Australian market is dumb enough to pay what they ask, so why sell them cheaper... It's called the Australia tax.

Not only that, parts and post-sale support is also killer...

[chopstar87]

Personally i dont think the world ends for car enthusiasts when the falcon and commodore die off... yes i am a ford fan, but i see my self as a car enthusiast, all cars are built for a need, and if a car meets the need its built for, i see that as a successful car. Not all cars are created for the same thing, so not all car enthusiasts want the same either. Some like cars for the look or the handling or power or what ever.

yes its sad that the falcon and commodore is dying.. but there is plenty of fun cars to be had... as a enthusiast i personally like a wide range if cars.. atm i have my 300c luxury, brilliant crusier and i personally love its looks (i know a lot dont, but i dont give a f@&k because the car is for me, not them) but i also would love to own a little turbo fiat 500, as i think they look cool and would be a fun drive... (just like the fiesta ST) but saying that, my next car will most likely be a AMG A45 or a supercharged mustang.

If you think the world end for car enthusiasts when the falcon / commodore dies, i feel sad for you, because you have limited yourself from experiencing truly great cars. Yes falcon and commodore are great, but there is other great cars that might meet ur needs and hell the charger (4 door muscle car)may be available in the coming years..

[jpd80]

You'll never kill the desire for performance vehicles, they just change form and show up as something different.

Plenty of HP Falcons and Commodores available new for the next three years, even more on the second hand market.
With all those numbers, HP enthusiasts have more than enough to choose from for the next 10-20 years.

If Dodge does a RHD Charger sedan (shared with 300C), I think that would do rather well in Australia

[BHDOGS]

There sure are alot of ******* on this forum I should know I am one

[calais]

Another thread bites the dust.

[Rapid05xr6]

Doesn't anyone remember the first falcons, the xp, xm etc. Park one of them next to an fg and they are tiny. The market adapted to the requests of the buyer, The falcons have been getting bigger and more performance orientated because thats what the public wanted. The market has changed again and because of fuel and running costs going up the average person wants something cheap to run and long lasting, enter the mazda 3, fiesta etc. In the future things will change again and cars may cycle back to a large performance sedan.

In the US the crown victoria was discontinued this year, It has been around a Lot longer than the falcon, but their market has changed too, look at their whole market you struggle to buy a large rwd sedan

[Pepscobra]

To me, a car enthusiast is anyone who takes pride in their car, no matter what it is.
It doesn't have to be expensive, fast, powerful or the latest model.
Keeping their car clean, well maintained and taking an interest in their car defines an Enthusiast to me.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by stevz

Because the Falcodore was a perfect all rounder - A performance car, an enthusiasts car, a comfortable touring car, a family car and a daily driver. And to top it off it was Australian made.
Let me see one of your small Jap buzz boxes fulfill all these roles in the same way.

Ummm............no.
The Falcodore (or Conformadore) is not the perfect all-rounder. There is no such thing. If it was perfect, then it could do everything every one of us on here asks it to.

I'll step up and state I have never owned a Falcon, simply because I am a CAR enthusiast and have bought what I wanted from a car, not because of the badge

My last performance car was a twin turbo Subaru. 4 door sedan, more performance than the equivalent Falcon/Commodore, carried my family, was my daily and was cheaper on fuel to boot...

Now my needs have changed and don't need or want that anymore.

BTW, my wifes 2012 Focus has more interior room than my Suby.
Us 5 can fit comfortably in it too.