$200mill package to Ford, Holden, Toyota to offset FBT changes

[Agile]

How many people ?

"This is a band-aid on poorly constructed policy that will do substantial damage to an industry that employs more than 300,000 hard working Australians," said Mr Penberthy. "If this policy is not reversed a significant number of jobs will be lost."

By the end of the campaign it will be a million people.

Get a grip ya clown

If it gets up it will be the best policy Rudd and his mob ever came up with

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by ivorya

One word that gets everyone excited..... 'SURPLUS' !

To many yrs of one side's propaganda on this has had an effect on the voting public.

But hey, it's all politics, it's everywhere. We are all just pawns on a big chess table to these people.

Exactly...proper economists say a country shouldn't be afraid of not having a surplus. Think of your household...imagine you didn't want to have any debt, and have money in the bank, just sitting there. What would you have to do? You certainly wouldn't have a new car, that would entail going into debt, destroying your "surplus". You probably would just keep your old furniture because new stuff also costs a lot of money. TV breaks? Nope...don't replace it...that would entail damaging your surplus. House needs repairs? No...let it go...don't want to affect the surplus.
In the end, you have a run down house, with old furniture, an old car, tatty clothes...but hey!, you've got a big surplus in the bank!!

Debt is good...going into debt is how countries pay for big ticket items and large projects. Taxing the bejesus out of everyone and cutting back services to the bone just to have a magical "surplus figure" that you refuse to spend is foolish in the extreme.


One thing that people should worry about: if it is this easy to destroy an industry (car leasing) with the stroke of a pen and a few idiotic words for an adoring media...just wait until one day some party notices how much money is just lazing around in superannuation funds around the country...don't think they haven't considered it before...

[2011G6E]

Wouldn't it all be easier just to leave things the way they were?

I would lay cash money on a bet that a month or two ago, no one outside industries where you could access a lease car even worried about workers with a lease car...the "problem" probably never even crossed their minds, as it didn't...in any real way...affect them at all.

In my near-thirty years of working life before starting this job where a great number of people have lease cars, I never once recall ever even thinking about lease cars or what it would be like to have one. The thought never crossed my mind, as it was nothing to do with my work life.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

One thing that people should worry about: if it is this easy to destroy an industry (car leasing) with the stroke of a pen and a few idiotic words for an adoring media...just wait until one day some party notices how much money is just lazing around in superannuation funds around the country...don't think they haven't considered it before...

Superannuation money is already used extensively by the Government for big infastructure projects.
Its the whole reason why it was created, forces the public to save some of their wages, while at the same time gives the Government a mass of money to dip into whenever it wants.
Thats the reason why theres so many hoops you have to go through if you want to self manage your superfund.

Oh, its also the same reason why that new bank deposit tax has come about too.

[jimmyxr6t04]

Bank deposit tax eh? I hadn't heard of it until then, but bugger me... Next they'll be putting a tax on fresh air, oh hang on... they already have, in a round about way...

Tax, tax ,tax ,tax... It's all this country knows.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

Bank deposit tax eh? I hadn't heard of it until then, but bugger me... Next they'll be putting a tax on fresh air, oh hang on... they already have, in a round about way...

Tax, tax ,tax ,tax... It's all this country knows.

***Yawn**** DEPOSIT TAX??

just another scaremongering political slogan.

It's 0.05% on those deposits over 250,0000 bucks...
instead of $12000 interest a year the poor rich bloke only gets $11875....

It won't be taken out of an account, it's a reduced interest rate.

Just shows how stupid this election has become in scaring pensioners unnecessarily by Abbott and his desperate crew.

[jimmyxr6t04]

Originally Posted by zilo

***Yawn**** DEPOSIT TAX??

just another scaremongering political slogan.

It's 0.05% on those deposits over 250,0000 bucks...
instead of $12000 interest a year the poor rich bloke only gets $11875....

It won't be taken out of an account, it's a reduced interest rate.

Just shows how stupid this election has become in scaring pensioners unnecessarily by Abbott and his desperate crew.

Yep, i understand all that... But just like every other tax, it has to start somewhere. In 20 years from now, that 0.05% might even go up...

Regardless of who's in power, the only solution they ever come up with is more tax. The amount of this deposit tax is irrelevant, it's the fact that it's another tax...

[zilo]

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

Yep, i understand all that... But just like every other tax, it has to start somewhere. In 20 years from now, that 0.05% might even go up...

Regardless of who's in power, the only solution they ever come up with is more tax. The amount of this deposit tax is irrelevant, it's the fact that it's another tax...

Get over it mate ...It's not a tax, it's to pay for the insurance premium so you don't lose your dough if the bank/building society goes belly up.

It is as adsurd as saying that home contents insurance is a tax....or that health insurance is a tax.

I can't explain it any easier than that.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zilo

***Yawn**** DEPOSIT TAX??

just another scaremongering political slogan.

It's 0.05% on those deposits over 250,0000 bucks...
instead of $12000 interest a year the poor rich bloke only gets $11875....

It won't be taken out of an account, it's a reduced interest rate.

Just shows how stupid this election has become in scaring pensioners unnecessarily by Abbott and his desperate crew.

Err not correct.

Its .05% on accounts upto $250,000. Not over $250k

[irish2]

Originally Posted by zilo

Get over it mate ...It's not a tax, it's to pay for the insurance premium so you don't lose your dough if the bank/building society goes belly up.

It is as adsurd as saying that home contents insurance is a tax....or that health insurance is a tax.

I can't explain it any easier than that.

Insurance premium? The banks are making profit. None of them are going down here. It is simply another tax.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by zilo

***Yawn**** DEPOSIT TAX??

just another scaremongering political slogan.

It's 0.05% on those deposits over 250,0000 bucks...
instead of $12000 interest a year the poor rich bloke only gets $11875....

It won't be taken out of an account, it's a reduced interest rate.

Just shows how stupid this election has become in scaring pensioners unnecessarily by Abbott and his desperate crew.

Sorry...it's every deposit up to $250,000...not "over" $250,000. It's everyone...you, me, your grandma, everyone...
http://www.afr.com/p/national/bank_d...36mmzu3VQ2lhVJ

The Rudd government plans to impose an insurance levy on all bank deposits, risking a major fight with one of the best-resourced industries on the eve of the election campaign.

Senior banking figures indicated on Thursday night they would oppose the move and depict it as a tax on bank depositors.

The government plans to impose a 0.05 per cent insurance levy on every deposit of up to $250,000 to protect depositors against collapses.

The banks said they will pass on the impost, which equates to 5¢ for each $100, to customers through reduced interest payments on deposits.

And it isn't for "insurance"...our banking system is completely different to the ones overseas that the government is trying to frighten us with. We have a stable, well regulated banking environment, and it never has thrown around loans such as the ones which got the USA and Europe into trouble. There really is no need to have this in place. Everyone knows it's just going to end up in consolidated revenue.

Once a tax is in, it stays in...and will only increase. The only reason the GST hasn't increased is that it's hard to do...it's pretty well set in stone at 10% and is hard to change without a lot of bipartisan and state government agreement.

[2011G6E]

An interesting...and unforeseen...outcome of the FBT changes here. I bet no one considered this thing which has gone on as long as there have been car dealerships as a "problem" that needs to be taxed...
http://www.carsguide.com.au/blogs-an...l_on_demo_cars

Dealerships are facing tax bills up to $750,000 for allowing staff to drive pool and demo cars.
The impost, on top of the millions motor traders will miss under new FBT rules that discourage companies to use fleet cars or allow staff to salary-sacrifice vehicles, will be enough to cripple some smaller operators, the Australian Motor Industry Federation said.

Under proposed FBT changes, which the government announced without industry consultation, workers with salary-sacrificed cars or fleet vehicles will be ordered to keep a detailed log book, with all personal use attracting FBT.
The changes will ensnare motor traders who provide staff with pool cars or demonstrator models to drive to and from work, which the industry claims is merely a means of advertising and product placement.

Didn't see that one coming, did they...


And in the readers comments section there is a good comment. "What's next, our salary sacrificed superannuation contributions to be taxed as well?"
Good question...I pay $100 a fortnight into my super via salary sacrifice. Is this a "rort"? Is this a case of "fat cats taking advantage of the tax system"? Is this a "loophole which needs to be closed"? Because it's exactly the same thing people with lease cars are doing...using some of the pre-tax component of their wage to pay for something for their personal, not company, benefit.

..."slippery slope", anyone...? If you start applauding the government for "cracking down on tax loopholes", be careful what you wish for...

[PepeLePew]

This thread is becoming political and the leanings of some posters and what is driving their opinions is becoming clear. Lets back the argument down and leave the political movitation and agendas out of it. It's been a decent thread so far lets keep it that way.

[2011G6E]

But...when talking about the FBT and lease car changes, it's a stupid, purely political and not sound economic decision that is affecting the livelihoods of so many people, it's very hard to not comment on the political philosophy behind it.

In other words, it's a great discussion point...but it's impossible to separate the politics from the issue.

I think people have done pretty well so far keeping as much politics as possible out of it...but from time to time you'll have to address at least some politics in such a discussion. As long as no one goes way over the top, it shouldn't be a problem. It has to be talked about.

[daryle]

I wonder if the full equation is available? OK we get x amount of dollars by closing the tax offset created by leasing. We loose x amount of dollars created by the sale of a new car. We loose x amount of dollars contributed by those who will loose jobs related to this act. We loose x amount of dollars because x amount of people will be forced onto the dole. Australian manufacturing takes another big hit as a lot of leases take advantage of company discounts available for employees/relatives/friends of those who make cars in Australia. So can you see where i am coming from? it is a very complicated equation and i wonder if all points have been addressed.