Russia v Ukraine

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Like this article of his from just 2 months prior to the invasion, where he says Russia will not invade and it is all a crisis being manufactured by the US and NATO who were over-reacting to Russia's build-up of forces on Ukrainian border: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/542214-russ...-ukraine-nato/

lol im not here to have a tit for tat with you on this guy. No one is infallible. No body has been able to predict all that has transpired with 100% accuracy.
If there is another source out there, with similar experience, who is willing to break down the analysis into logical steps, and share it with the public, I'll happily listen. I'm interested in piecing all this together, not barracking for a side.

He got Mariupol right, when until recently, the popular opinion was that the Russians would be pushed back. And unlike what we've been told, his opinion from the beginning was that Kiyv and Kharkiv was not a primary objective (I think?), that now seems about right. He has said Donbas is the objective, lets see what transpires.

Very easy to nit pick on what is a very fast moving and complex scenario. Plenty got it wrong from the start, even on this side of the ledger.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...invade-ukraine

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/artic...e-ukraine-soon

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468264

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...nvade-ukraine/

Originally Posted by Mulva

I know two electricians with same qualification and same number of years experience as each other - yet one is very much better at their job than the other. To me, Ritter is starting to look like the sparky most likely to electrocute himself

I bet you the other sparky is still more qualified than some journo or AFF member sitting on the other side of the planet with no electrical experience.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

As a student of armoured warfare I find it interesting that nearly 100% of putinland armoured vehicles pop their turrets when struck by any ordinance. Do they have ammunition storage issues?

You know they do.

Unlike well designed (robust) Western tanks, Russian tanks carry ammunition in their turrets. This flaw means the Russian tank crews are sitting ducks and get fried every time their obsolete tanks get hit by modern anti tank weapons.

The funny thing is they’ve rebranded the Rubbish T-72 as the T-90 after the Iraq war (after no one would purchase their tanks anymore, I don’t know if India knew this ).

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

You know they do.

Unlike well designed (robust) Western tanks, Russian tanks carry ammunition in their turrets. This flaw means the Russian tank crews are sitting ducks and get fried every time their obsolete tanks get hit by modern anti tank weapons.

The funny thing is they’ve rebranded the Rubbish T-72 as the T-90 after the Iraq war (after no one would purchase their tanks anymore, I don’t know if India knew this ).

I know tanks are now largely about as relevant as battleships but wouldn’t it have been interesting to have one last modern day Kursk, pitting the jack in the boxes versus Leopard 2A7, South Korea’s Black Panther, M1A2 and Challenger 2.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

As a student of armoured warfare I find it interesting that nearly 100% of putinland armoured vehicles pop their turrets when struck by any ordinance. Do they have ammunition storage issues?

Can you imagine a British Challenger 2, a German Leopard 2A6, or a M1A2 Abrams SEP 3 coming up against this Russian junk ?

It’d be carnage.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I know tanks are now largely about as relevant as battleships but wouldn’t it have been interesting to have one last modern day Kursk, pitting the jack in the boxes versus Leopard 2A7, South Korea’s Black Panther, M1A2 and Challenger 2.

Good to see you know what you’re talking about mate !

[PhilT2]

Latest report is that 260 were evacuated from the Azovstal steelworks, 53 with serious injuries, the others less injured. Estimates vary but it is claimed only a few hundred remain at the plant but they will be removed in the next few days. All are going to Russian held parts of Ukraine as prisoners of war. The Ukrainians claim to hold about a thousand Russian prisoners and are hoping a swap can be arranged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHryfoPZ-Vg


I don't know what the deciding factor was that made them decide to give up now. They must have known for some time that rescue was not going to happen. Some efforts were made to resupply them but they failed. Food and ammo might have just run out. But they have achieved their objective; they kept thousands of Russians tied up for weeks, giving the rest of the Ukrainian army time to stock up on hardware from the west. These troops were the Azov battalion and part of the reason they held out so long is said to be that they suspected that the Russians would not accept surrender and shoot them regardless.

This could give Putin the "off ramp" that I hope he is looking for. He can claim to have finally captured the Nazis that he went there to get so now they can all go home. Won't happen of course but nice if it did.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

As a student of armoured warfare I find it interesting that nearly 100% of putinland armoured vehicles pop their turrets when struck by any ordinance. Do they have ammunition storage issues?

Yep, the flaw is their auto-loader system that has their rounds stored in the turret with the crew - you can clearly see the turret go skyward in this explosion

WARNING: Likely loss of life in below video.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Good to see you know what you’re talking about mate !

And your good self sir

[Citroënbender]

While it’s a bit irrational in respect of the realities of military engagement, I have a great sense of sadness for the tank crews. By now they would be under no illusions as to the risks.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Has the steelworks in Mariupol actually been taken?

Yep, Azov a few hours ago.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

While it’s a bit irrational in respect of the realities of military engagement, I have a great sense of sadness for the tank crews. By now they would be under no illusions as to the risks.

If we are to believe some of the intercepted phone calls, many are sabotaging their tanks to avoid battle, like putting sand in fuel.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

And your good self sir

Good on you bloke !

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I know tanks are now largely about as relevant as battleships but wouldn’t it have been interesting to have one last modern day Kursk, pitting the jack in the boxes versus Leopard 2A7, South Korea’s Black Panther, M1A2 and Challenger 2.

It’d be a massacre.

[GasoLane]

From a crazy Canadian friend who pinched it from one of their newspapers.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

From a crazy Canadian friend who pinched it from one of their newspapers.




image

Perfect

That’s what we’re talking about.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

While it’s a bit irrational in respect of the realities of military engagement, I have a great sense of sadness for the tank crews. By now they would be under no illusions as to the risks.

I would dare say any service personal in modern warfare is under no illusions of what risks await for them, depends on who you are fighting.

[Cav]

So anyway, who's winning?

[JasonACT]

GasoLane

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Good to see you know what you’re talking about mate !

Don't get him started on financial advice.......

[Citroënbender]

Another small piece on the problems with current era Russian tanks; noting the date of writing - a prescient article, it seems.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/10/...-a-fatal-flaw/

Also interesting to read (elsewhere) how an objection as that fostered by Turkey to prospective new members of NATO, cannot simply be skirted around by declaring a current member an “ex member” via unanimity less one.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Cav

So anyway, who's winning?

Carn Cav, the correct answer is "there are no winners in war".

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

You know they do.

Unlike well designed (robust) Western tanks, Russian tanks carry ammunition in their turrets. This flaw means the Russian tank crews are sitting ducks and get fried every time their obsolete tanks get hit by modern anti tank weapons.

The funny thing is they’ve rebranded the Rubbish T-72 as the T-90 after the Iraq war (after no one would purchase their tanks anymore, I don’t know if India knew this ).

The T72 and T 90 have a carousel shell carrier in the crew compartment at the base of the turret that carries rounds. It is a self loader, so the tanks only need 3 crew, and tanks can be smaller.

Trouble is any missile/rpg breach into the crew compartment area can cause ignition of the shells held in the carousel, and the ensuing detonation causes high pressure and the only release is for the turret to pop like a champagne cork. I have seen a photo of a T72 turret that blew off 20 metres from the tank with the mangled remains of a crewman still in the turret/hatch.

The Tanks like the Abrahams M1 carry their storage of shells in a large armoured bin at the rear of the turret. It is not a self loader, so needs 4 crewman. The crewman inside the main crew compartment opens an armoured hatch to the armoured bin, to retrieve a shell, shuts hatch, loads gun and fires, and then repeats process. If a shell breaches the crew compartment, will be only 1 or 2 shells exposed.

If the armoured bin with shells is breached, the rear of the bin has thinner armour that is designed to vent the blast out away from the crew compartment.

The Russians designed their tanks to be made cheaply, with the idea that 3 T72s would take out 1 Abrahams M1, and by sheer numbers they would defeat USA tanks.

Russians place no value in their soldiers lives so it was not a consideration for crew safety.

[T3rminator]

Strong words from the Turkish president on the new NATO applicants. If he doesn't change his tune, he may suddenly disappear from parliament through a mysterious vote of no confidence, or by some other means.

https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defe...mands-to-nato/

List of demands:

NATO should classify not only the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) but also the Syrian Defense Forces (SDF) and the Fetullah Terrorist Organization (FETO) in the alliance’s list of threats.

The United States should then extradite Pennsylvania-based dissident cleric Fethullah Gülen to Turkey.

All NATO members, including Sweden and Finland, must cease any activity by the PKK, SDF, or FETO on their territories.

The United States and other NATO bodies must lift all sanctions related to Turkey’s purchase of the S-400, including sanctions upon the Turkish Defense Industry Directorate.

Turkey would not only receive the new F-16s and upgrade kits for its existing fleet, but Turkey will also be able to rejoin the F-35 program from which it was expelled after activating the Russian S-400s.

Lastly, the United States would cease preventing Turkey from exporting military products containing Western components.

[burnz]

Russian napalm rocket used..

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4778173...ading-ukraine/

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by burnz

Russian napalm rocket used..

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4778173...ading-ukraine/

Please leave the clickbait to the media.

Other that 'The Sun' not being the most reliable source of reliable information that page says nothing about it being used.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Please leave the clickbait to the media.

Other that 'The Sun' not being the most reliable source of reliable information that page says nothing about it being used.

They’re blown up in muddy ditches, it’s a shame that story is almost 3 months old

[FairmontGS]

Finally, a car story for this thread!

Russia needs cars, so it's rebooting this Soviet-era brand

(CNN)After Renault announced its departure this week from the Russian auto market amid the country's war with Ukraine, Moscow's mayor announced its factory will be used to restart the defunct Soviet-era Moskvich car brand.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/17/b...ich/index.html

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Finally, a car story for this thread!

Russia needs cars, so it's rebooting this Soviet-era brand



https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/17/b...ich/index.html

This will be hilarious

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Finally, a car story for this thread!

Russia needs cars, so it's rebooting this Soviet-era brand



https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/17/b...ich/index.html

They need Kamaz designers and techs, because you can't kill those things.

[T3rminator]

Think Renault sold it for a nominal 1 ruble, with an option to claw back within 6 years. Good luck!