Falcon options that where tested but never made it to production

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by EASYBOSS

So you haven't driven an F6X

I've driven just about every fast ford except the new mustang and the old RS focus. No turbo territory ever impressed me and I'm number 1 ticket holder in the territory fan club.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

^^ I agree. The X series wagons looked good (even with the heavily pronounced slope on XD-XF) because the side glass all lined up & matched. The XR-XY, and XA-XC wagons actually had some decent style too - by incorporating the famous coke-bottle hipline from the sedan.

The EA went to that high roof & over-size rear side glass, and that's where the ugliness started. One of the most pleasant looking Falcons in sedan form, but the complete opposite in wagon form. The cleaner & tighter EF & EL plastics, as well as colour coding, made the lower half look even better, but look above the waistline and cringe...

You only have to look at the Territory side profile to see they were capable of getting it right again. Even though the side glass doesn't continue in one sweep like a Commodore, the rear cargo glass height complements the door glass (and looks good how it sweeps around into the tailgate).

The rear tailgate on them XB-C fairmont wagons was a good idea how they could swing to the side as well as up and down, they could look like a wagon with class.
I liked the Valiant AP6 wagons as well but all the other wagons they made were crap.
Holden HZ was the best looking wagon in a Premier.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

I think in fords defence that the Falcon wagon was never going to see another dollar as far as development went because of Territory. As soon as the Territory was in development stage around say 2000 which was mid AU Falcon era than the Falcon wagon was finished. .

Pity...

IMG_8978 by Gothe Falcon, on Flickr

It's such a great base vehicle to start with ! I know people love their "SUVs", but I preferred the Wagon over the Terry for many reasons... like the bigger cargo area and the car-like driving position (and many more). I reckon, marketed well, they could have sold the two alongside each other (just as Holden has with the Commodore hatchback and Captiva).

As for something that was trialled but didn't make it... an AWD RTV test mule was built ! From my experience with the FAWD... I reckon it would have been a pretty good piece of kit !

Dhru

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by castellan

The rear tailgate on them XB-C fairmont wagons was a good idea how they could swing to the side as well as up and down, they could look like a wagon with class.
I liked the Valiant AP6 wagons as well but all the other wagons they made were crap.
Holden HZ was the best looking wagon in a Premier.

Yeah, the 2-way tailgate on XA/B/C Fairmont wagons was a nice item, although I'm sure it was available on Falcon 500s as well.

Most of the early Valiant wagons were good things. My favourites were the V8 models, these were speced above a Regal. A family friend had a VE VIP V8 Safari wagon; in its day it was arguably a nicer thing than the equivalent Fairmont or Premier wagon.

I'll admit that I'm biased, but a fully loaded HZ Premier wagon was the pick of the bunch.

Dr Terry

[duaned]

I'm pretty sure they made a Falcon that never made mass production that didn't contain and squeaks and rattles. Oh well, what could have been!

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

Pity...

imageIMG_8978 by Gothe Falcon, on Flickr

It's such a great base vehicle to start with ! I know people love their "SUVs", but I preferred the Wagon over the Terry for many reasons... like the bigger cargo area and the car-like driving position (and many more). I reckon, marketed well, they could have sold the two alongside each other (just as Holden has with the Commodore hatchback and Captiva).

As for something that was trialled but didn't make it... an AWD RTV test mule was built ! From my experience with the FAWD... I reckon it would have been a pretty good piece of kit !

Dhru

Great post mate, and your car hides the rear glass profile well being dark. The high rear window looks more noticeable on the lighter cars. Agreed with everything you said and for all intended purposes Ford could have easily converted the wagon to irs as well. I guess when you consider the range of models that were in production which were Falcon sedan,ute,wagon,Fairlane and territory that it was starting to get out of hand from a development and engineering new models point of view. Naturally the 2 slowest sellers had to go which was wagon and Fairlane. I sold new Holden passenger cars when The Territory first come out and we were selling the Adventra Commodore wagon. We couldn't sell Adventras to save ourself with even Holden drivers buying the Territory. The Territory was everything it needed to be, big safe and sedan like handling. The only weak point was the early awd auto which was slow and very heavy on fuel. The Revised SY with 6 speed auto or even the early 2wd were great cars. The Adventra was a terrible idea ( no disrespect to your car) it was heavy, V8 only, 4 speed auto only, and had wheel alignment issue. These issues required moving the K frame forward or backward on one side and the opposite on the other and sometimes grinding out the K frame bolt holes to allow more movement. This would than allow enough adjustment to get the wheel alignment to spec. They drove ok but compared to the Territory but they didn't have that SUV look and seven seats that everyone was chasing. It was a master stroke from Ford and beside the turbo Falcon and Blown Miami was one of the few times that Ford Trumped Holden.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by duaned

I'm pretty sure they made a Falcon that never made mass production that didn't contain and squeaks and rattles. Oh well, what could have been!

They did- all three I've owned.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Great post mate, and your car hides the rear glass profile well being dark. The high rear window looks more noticeable on the lighter cars. Agreed with everything you said and for all intended purposes Ford could have easily converted the wagon to irs as well. I guess when you consider the range of models that were in production which were Falcon sedan,ute,wagon,Fairlane and territory that it was starting to get out of hand from a development and engineering new models point of view. Naturally the 2 slowest sellers had to go which was wagon and Fairlane. I sold new Holden passenger cars when The Territory first come out and we were selling the Adventra Commodore wagon. We couldn't sell Adventras to save ourself with even Holden drivers buying the Territory. The Territory was everything it needed to be, big safe and sedan like handling. The only weak point was the early awd auto which was slow and very heavy on fuel. The Revised SY with 6 speed auto or even the early 2wd were great cars. The Adventra was a terrible idea ( no disrespect to your car) it was heavy, V8 only, 4 speed auto only, and had wheel alignment issue. These issues required moving the K frame forward or backward on one side and the opposite on the other and sometimes grinding out the K frame bolt holes to allow more movement. This would than allow enough adjustment to get the wheel alignment to spec. They drove ok but compared to the Territory but they didn't have that SUV look and seven seats that everyone was chasing. It was a master stroke from Ford and beside the turbo Falcon and Blown Miami was one of the few times that Ford Trumped Holden.

Agreed, the rear door - rear window line is somewhat awkward... but overall, I think the styling of the AU-BF3 Wagon's body has stood the test of time. (maybe it's just me !??) For a Wagon, IRS is not all it's made out to be... or any coil sprung rear for that matter. Sure... leaf springs have their downsides... but when it comes to carrying weight, they are still the best option ! I have a full RTV rear suspension set-up... and the anti-tramp rods transform the handling on rough roads, corrugations, etc... and help to make the handling on any road, predictable. Combined with the excellent Terry front end... my Wagon handles & steers very well indeed ! Anyone who's driven it remarks on how easy it is to drive and can't believe how well it sits on the open road too ! With a bit more attention... Ford could have easily made the leaf sprung rear end behave a lot better (dam bean counters !)
I liked the Adventra concept (I could never own a Holden though)... I agree that the V8 version was too thirsty for most people (goes ok though) The Holden V6 just doesn't cut it in a heavy car like that... not enough torque. Of all the combinations available from both sides at the time, Ford's I6 was ideal. Sure... it's no sports car.. but it's got enough poke for the average punter, and comparable economy with other similar vehicles.
Adventra did sell fairly well, before the Terry was released... but as you say, the "SUV" thing was just taking off... so Adventra became dead in the water after that. It's huge A9X style plastic flares didn't do it any favours in the styling dept. either. Punters did turn back to Wagons after that though.. only to find the traditional Wagon had gone... and replaced by Holden's "Sportwagon". It looks great.. but I know quite a few who bought one, only to sell it early and go back to an SUV as the load capacity was crap (for a Wagon) and there's not a lot of other choice.
I believe that had Ford wanted to make good alternative versions of the Wagon (not just paint & sticker packs) and marketed them well... then they'd still be here ! Unfortunately the reality is, We'll loose the lot anyway !

D

[Tocchi]

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

I often wonder if they planned to continue the XR wagons beyond the EL or whether they simply decided it wasn't worth it. A factory BA XR6-T wagon would have been epic.

I doubt they would have seriously considered doing it because the high series wagons never sold in numbers... but a man can dream.

i'm not complaining about them not doing it, means i have somewhat some resale value on mine when i do choose to sell it.

pity about the ******* ugly rear windows.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

Agreed, the rear door - rear window line is somewhat awkward... but overall, I think the styling of the AU-BF3 Wagon's body has stood the test of time. (maybe it's just me !??) For a Wagon.
D

Agreed, the thought of owning a wagon came up many times over the years as the family grew, but i just couldnt make myself like the rear styling on the Falcon and the Terri was overkill. I couldnt bring myself to buy a Commodore wagon and toyed with the idea of a Liberty or Outback but never made the switch so i stuck with sedans and a R50 Pathy for a while(yep, overkill).

Then i spotted a BF3 Egas wagon in silouette and thought 'dark tint on a black wagon will hide the dodgy lines', so i jumped on it and couldnt be happier.
Heaps of people have commented on it since the tint was done and even though its a bog stock vehicle, the fact its a black Falcon wagon seems to draw attention when out and about, perhaps they think its a hearse..lol

And let me add, what you have done to your wagon is superb and a credit to your skill and determination. I'd have it in a heartbeat and if i had the drive to modify cars i used to possess, i'd be making a replica with mine tomorrow.

[78xcgxl]

Originally Posted by duaned

I'm pretty sure they made a Falcon that never made mass production that didn't contain and squeaks and rattles. Oh well, what could have been!

My Dad's FG mk2 G6E has not a single rattle or squeak......

[XG_Falcon]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

It's such a great base vehicle to start with! I know people love their "SUVs", but I preferred the Wagon over the Terry for many reasons... like the bigger cargo area and the car-like driving position (and many more). I reckon, marketed well, they could have sold the two alongside each other (just as Holden has with the Commodore hatchback and Captiva).

Agreed 100%. I prefer the wagon because of the way they drive and a wagon is actually more suitable for squeezing into packed load-in bays than a Territory.

I guess everybody has different needs though.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

Agreed, the rear door - rear window line is somewhat awkward... but overall, I think the styling of the AU-BF3 Wagon's body has stood the test of time. (maybe it's just me !??) For a Wagon, IRS is not all it's made out to be... or any coil sprung rear for that matter. Sure... leaf springs have their downsides... but when it comes to carrying weight, they are still the best option ! I have a full RTV rear suspension set-up... and the anti-tramp rods transform the handling on rough roads, corrugations, etc... and help to make the handling on any road, predictable. Combined with the excellent Terry front end... my Wagon handles & steers very well indeed ! Anyone who's driven it remarks on how easy it is to drive and can't believe how well it sits on the open road too ! With a bit more attention... Ford could have easily made the leaf sprung rear end behave a lot better (dam bean counters !)
I liked the Adventra concept (I could never own a Holden though)... I agree that the V8 version was too thirsty for most people (goes ok though) The Holden V6 just doesn't cut it in a heavy car like that... not enough torque. Of all the combinations available from both sides at the time, Ford's I6 was ideal. Sure... it's no sports car.. but it's got enough poke for the average punter, and comparable economy with other similar vehicles.
Adventra did sell fairly well, before the Terry was released... but as you say, the "SUV" thing was just taking off... so Adventra became dead in the water after that. It's huge A9X style plastic flares didn't do it any favours in the styling dept. either. Punters did turn back to Wagons after that though.. only to find the traditional Wagon had gone... and replaced by Holden's "Sportwagon". It looks great.. but I know quite a few who bought one, only to sell it early and go back to an SUV as the load capacity was crap (for a Wagon) and there's not a lot of other choice.
I believe that had Ford wanted to make good alternative versions of the Wagon (not just paint & sticker packs) and marketed them well... then they'd still be here ! Unfortunately the reality is, We'll loose the lot anyway !

D

The Adventra V6 was actually the better car, better on fuel, 6 speed auto, lighter and better Handling, cheaper rego,And enough power for what it was designed to do. It was easier to sell being v6 and more practical as a family car over the v8 fuel guzzler.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

The Adventra V6 was actually the better car, better on fuel, 6 speed auto, lighter and better Handling, cheaper rego,And enough power for what it was designed to do. It was easier to sell being v6 and more practical as a family car over the v8 fuel guzzler.

Adventra V6 was 5 Speed auto.

The Adventra concept was a noble idea, and a concept that I prefer, but it could only ever have been a niche product. The SUV body was what most buyers wanted and the Adventra didn't possess a driving advantage over an SUV that many buyers and would be buyers expected. It drove more truck.

Territory was one of the few times Ford stole the march on Holden.

[Eaturbo]

Yeah sorry 5 speed auto with active select and paddle shift. Been 10 years since I sold them.

[jgmdat]

Originally Posted by duaned

I'm pretty sure they made a Falcon that never made mass production that didn't contain and squeaks and rattles. Oh well, what could have been!

My FG XR8 Ute had 330,000km on it when i traded it on a GS, not one squeak or rattle. A company VS ute i once had well let's not go there.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

The Adventra V6 was actually the better car, better on fuel, 5 speed auto, lighter and better Handling, cheaper rego,And enough power for what it was designed to do. It was easier to sell being v6 and more practical as a family car over the v8 fuel guzzler.

From memory.... I thought the Holden V8 wasn't a lot heavier than the V6.... so I just looked up the specs for the top spec models... LX6 3.6 1965kg v LX8 5.7 1985Kg.
Combined average City/Country fuel economy lists a bit differently though, at 14.8L/100 v 18L/100... but at 190Kw/335Nm v 250Kw/470Nm... you could forgive the V8 for being a bit thirstier !??
As opposed to the SX Terry Ghia of the time at 2095Kg. 15.5L/100 & 182Kw/380Nm (granted, any fuel economy figures can alter better or worse, depending on who, how & where, etc.)
Out of interest... my Wagon with all extras fitted... HD-towbar, bullbar, spotties, roof racks on the rails, 176L duel fuel, cargo barrier, diff locker, etc.. weighs about 2200kg (full fuel load as opposed to the others listed dry)... 190Kw/383Nm and has a combined average of about 13.5L/100 mainly on LPG (6spd auto)

Interesting stuff... but getting way off topic, so sorry about that

D

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The Adventra concept was a noble idea, and a concept that I prefer, but it could only ever have been a niche product.

And yet... Subaru sells a shed load of Outbacks alongside their SUV offerings.
Go figure !??

D

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

It's huge A9X style plastic flares didn't do it any favours in the styling dept. either. Punters did turn back to Wagons after that though.. only to find the traditional Wagon had gone... and replaced by Holden's "Sportwagon". It looks great.. but I know quite a few who bought one, only to sell it early and go back to an SUV as the load capacity was crap (for a Wagon) and there's not a lot of other choice.

As a proud owner of an VYII LX8 Adventra, I found the first remark a little disappointing. The flares on my car are much closer in size to your RTV style flares than an A9X. Have you had a closely looked at an A9X lately ? The only comment that would make is that, it's a pity the Adventra's flare weren't painted body colour. BTW this is more than compensated for by the increased in track dimension.

Also the load capacity of the Sportwagon is not really any smaller than many SUVs, especially in the length of the bed. Although after the VT-VZ wagon is was a fair reduction in size. The VT-VZ wagon had arguably the largest cargo area (volume or length) of any Aussie wagon ever made.

It's a pity that GM (US) raided GM-H's piggy bank, which stopped proposed production of the VE Adventra. For the DIY guys, this wouldn't such a huge conversion, given that the VE's floorpan & front hubs already have provision for the AWD running gear.

Dr Terry

P.S. My Adventra is probably the best car that I've ever owned, of any brand.

[T3ts50]

A FI 351 built by Roush was developed for the EA but never made it into production. I used to have the wheels mag detailing its testing and development.

Aslo, not sure if this is correct or not, but BA NA XR6 was supposed to have more power than the regular sixes, but couldn't get it to work right.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

As a proud owner of an VYII LX8 Adventra, I found the first remark a little disappointing. The flares on my car are much closer in size to your RTV style flares than an A9X. Have you had a closely looked at an A9X lately ? The only comment that would make is that, it's a pity the Adventra's flare weren't painted body colour. BTW this is more than compensated for by the increased in track dimension.

Also the load capacity of the Sportwagon is not really any smaller than many SUVs, especially in the length of the bed. Although after the VT-VZ wagon is was a fair reduction in size. The VT-VZ wagon had arguably the largest cargo area (volume or length) of any Aussie wagon ever made.

It's a pity that GM (US) raided GM-H's piggy bank, which stopped proposed production of the VE Adventra. For the DIY guys, this wouldn't such a huge conversion, given that the VE's floorpan & front hubs already have provision for the AWD running gear.

Dr Terry

P.S. My Adventra is probably the best car that I've ever owned, of any brand.

They were body coloured on HSV Avalanche and XUV Avalanche and we actually painted a few for customers. They only had flares as the standard guards didn't cover the wider track needed with the awd. Even HSV Coupe 4 used flares as they could not make the track any narrower for some reason. The LX8/6 were the pick of them but the 4 speed auto v8 killed the car from the point of refinement and fuel economy. The other thing was that the the entire car just looked the same as the commodore which put off customers wanting a new fresh look which was the Territories strong point along with 7 seats. I still maintain and sales proved it that the v6 LX6 was a great car but it faced serious competion and with this competion and Holden needing to reduce its number of models the Adventra was never going to survive. The killed Adventra, Crewman, Monaro, 1 tonner and the crewman was a great seller with sometimes a 6 month wait for one.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

They were body coloured on HSV Avalanche and XUV Avalanche and we actually painted a few for customers. They only had flares as the standard guards didn't cover the wider track needed with the awd. Even HSV Coupe 4 used flares as they could not make the track any narrower for some reason.

Yes, but the Avalanche, Avalanche SUV & Coupe4 are bespoke HSV models, not regular Holdens.

When new, the dealer could've been contracted to fill & paint the flares to body colour, but what would that have cost, given today's prices for labour & paint etc.

Dr Terry

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Why would they make an F6 wagon when an XR6 wagon never got a second look?

Couldn't you use the same argument for the FPV Territory, that had no mainstream XR equivalent?

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Couldn't you use the same argument for the FPV Territory, that had no mainstream XR equivalent?

There was a mainstream Territory Turbo and Territory Ghia Turbo.

[Dauphin]

Regarding a book, I am confident Ford will do this for us Aussie enthusiasts, and it will be a fantastic book and they'll sell heaps. The "True Blue" book by Bill Tuckey is no longer available and sells for high $$$ on the used market. I've been wanting to find a copy for quite some time. The library lost their's. It's a great book but left me wanting to know so much more.

My small self-published books about Aussie cars eventually all sell out. I'm about 75% through writing up the content to next publish a 40-page book about the development and history of the AU series era. It'll be my sixth book on Aussie cars to date. If I can come up with 40 pages for the AU, Ford could do a whole lot better for the XK to the FG X.

[ford man xf]

From memory they were going to make an engine that doesn't leak oil, blow head gaskets and doesn't overheat, unfortunately it never went into production

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dauphin

Regarding a book, I am confident Ford will do this for us Aussie enthusiasts, and it will be a fantastic book and they'll sell heaps. The "True Blue" book by Bill Tuckey is no longer available and sells for high $$$ on the used market. I've been wanting to find a copy for quite some time. The library lost their's. It's a great book but left me wanting to know so much more.

I have a few copies and I would part with one at an appropriate price.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

Aslo, not sure if this is correct or not, but BA NA XR6 was supposed to have more power than the regular sixes, but couldn't get it to work right.

Must've been early on if true, as all the press focused on XR6T replacing the unique XR6 engine.

[ozrunner]

Also the R5 dual cab. Took these pics and a few more of it at a Perth Show from memory.

I assume Ford will still have it.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Dauphin

Regarding a book, I am confident Ford will do this for us Aussie enthusiasts, and it will be a fantastic book and they'll sell heaps. The "True Blue" book by Bill Tuckey is no longer available and sells for high $$$ on the used market. I've been wanting to find a copy for quite some time. The library lost their's. It's a great book but left me wanting to know so much more.

My small self-published books about Aussie cars eventually all sell out. I'm about 75% through writing up the content to next publish a 40-page book about the development and history of the AU series era. It'll be my sixth book on Aussie cars to date. If I can come up with 40 pages for the AU, Ford could do a whole lot better for the XK to the FG X.

I had been searching for a copy for years. I found one at a used book store a while back. Couldn't believe my luck. A great book for a Ford fan.

Also, when would that AU book be out and where would I look for it if you don't mind me asking?