Australia,s Rarest muscle cars

[bullfrog]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

If you want to split hairs the only options available on a Landau where
Cassette deck
Full leather
Therefore there where 3 Landau produced with cassette deck and 1
Landau with full leather and cassette deck
But that is not what the the Article is about.

I don't understand what your trying to say.
Option 54 (ESP) was only available on the XE Fairmont Ghia, not on anything else.

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Bullfrog

I owned a xd Fairmont Ghia Factory 351 4-speed 9-inch back in the early 90's
I sold it to a girl.
It had the tendency to constantly snap the rear sway bar brackets of
the chassis. While I was looking I noticed that it had radius rods on the rear . ( did not look aftermarket either )

Looking back now I was wondering did they ever homogalate any bodies with radius rods for Bathurst??????

Radius rods (2) were standard on all XD ESP's. XD V8's often had 1 (LH Side) or 2 radius rods.
XD's did not come with 9" diffs.

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by bullfrog

I don't understand what your trying to say.
Option 54 (ESP) was only available on the XE Fairmont Ghia, not on anything else.




Radius rods (2) were standard on all XD ESP's. XD V8's often had 1 (LH Side) or 2 radius rods.
XD's did not come with 9" diffs.

Mine had a factory 9 inch... figure that out. Have seen other xd also with factory 9 inch.Here is one on gumtree
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/dalla...-v8/1031032588

Is very simple really.
1385 Landau produced with 2 options available. Over 3 year period
Well over 4,000,000 falcons produced with many options . Including Fairmont ghia and esp and GT , GTHO, Phase1 ,2 or 3 options. Qver 50 years

As much as people may not want to hear it the Author at unique cars is correct to say that the Landau is probably Australia.s rarest muscle car.
For those that may not consider it a muscle car it probably is ONE OF AUSTRALIA,S RAREST production models

[2011G6E]

Back in those days you could pick virtually anything in any combination you liked on the option list...when these days "mechanical" choices are usually limited to "what engine?", if that.
Valiant was well known for being an "anything goes" car maker...you could choose any weird and wonderful combination you liked, but Ford and Holden were pretty good too. Our 1978 XC Fairmont GXL Update had an iron head x-flow, C4 box, a heavy tailshaft and a diff with disc brake rear end. Not sure what was factory, but it had a lot of boxes ticked on the option list.

My nephew bought at a deceased estate auction (and quickly sold, the little *****) an XD S-Pack...bright yellow, cloth interior, 351, four speed, air, power steer, 9" diff, Volante mags, the lot. It was awesome.

Of course, not all choices were in good taste...my late uncle bought a VJ Valiant Regal sedan, and ticked all sorts of things on the list...purple paint, a brown interior, 265 hemi, auto, air con, but no power steer (or power brakes, a delete option to save some money...). The purple wasn't too bad, but the brown vinyl interior was a bit sad and clashed...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Exactly...sitting right here beside me in the bookshelf is a 1982 Wheels magazine with a review of the XE ESP Ghia with the last of the 351's. It put out...wait for it...149 romping stomping kilowatts...weren't a lot of people laughing at the new Toyota 86 for "only" putting out 147kw...?

Of course, some people come back with "Oh but they calculated the kilowatts differently with all ancillaries fitted at that time". Which is only right...they actually started testing engines as they sat in the car you drove on the street, with radiator, water pump, air filter, full exhaust system, alternator, and all anti-pollution...a far more realistic figure of what a car actually produces than a bare engine sitting on a stand revving it's head off with no water pump or alternator or exhaust or air cleaner.
In fact in a lot of motoring magazines from the late seventies after ADR27A came out, they didn't even quote power outputs...manufacturers were embarrassed by how powerful their great big V8's and big capacity sixes weren't and didn't like to advertise the fact...

blaa blaa blaa

go fill your 86 up with five mates and drag a boat up the river for the weekend

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

As much as people may not want to hear it the Author at unique cars is correct to say that the Landau is probably Australia.s rarest muscle car.

Well it seems the author's made your mind up so not much point in keeping the thread going then is it, unless you just want to keep telling people what they don't want to hear.......

I never considered my Landau a muscle car, to me it was just a two door luxo barge.....

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Well it seems the author's made your mind up so not much point in keeping the thread going then is it, unless you just want to keep telling people what they don't want to hear.......

I never considered my Landau a muscle car, to me it was just a two door luxo barge.....

I never considered my A9X a muscle car either( 176 kW / 236 hp )
BUT IT WAS . I think...well maybe it wasn,t.
DEFINITION OF MUSCLE CAR.
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.[3][4][5][6] They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing. Developed simultaneously in their own markets, muscle cars also emerged from manufacturers in Australia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.

Maybe the DETOMASO is the rarest Australian production Muscle Car vechile?????? DYOR.
Beside there are some interesting posts here that may dispel a few myths. Such as the PHASE 5 Falcon.( 25 MADE) And that BILL BOURKE SPECIAL 428


Phase 5 XD

With Ford no longer involved in motorsport, Ford Australia designer Wayne Draper saw an opportunity to still provide teams with racing spoilers. He set up an aftermarket body styling company with Bob McWilliam, but remained a silent partner to avoid conflicts with ford management. Between 1976 and 1978 they produced front splitters for XB and XC Falcon Hardtop race cars. Draper, who was a Senior Designer for the XD-XF falcon, purchased the rights to the "HO" nameplate, as "homologated options". Draper then designed a aero kit and tested scale models of a XD falcon in Fords Wind tunnel. This became known as "XD phase 5" and CAMS amended a few changes (including using Dick Johnson's "bucket" wing) to the cars for Group C homologation, HO/Phase Auto then produced the 25 cars required to allow the XD race as a Group C production car.

[2011G6E]

Sometimes the truth stings a bit...it's just a factor of the passage of time, advances in technology, and rose tinted glasses looking back over the decades. Australian built cars just weren't that good back then.
I love the cars of the seventies as much as anyone...I own a V8 Kingswood ute...but you can't ignore that the power levels of V8's and big sixes back then in Australian cars were less than most four cylinder cars of today. The acceleration times weren't even anything to write home about, looking back from the 21st century.

At the time they were great...as long as you don't compare them with anything modern of course. But that doesn't mean it isn't interesting to occasionally compare the two to see how far we've come.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Sometimes the truth stings a bit...it's just a factor of the passage of time, advances in technology, and rose tinted glasses looking back over the decades. Australian built cars just weren't that good back then.
I love the cars of the seventies as much as anyone...I own a V8 Kingswood ute...but you can't ignore that the power levels of V8's and big sixes back then in Australian cars were less than most four cylinder cars of today. The acceleration times weren't even anything to write home about, looking back from the 21st century.

At the time they were great...as long as you don't compare them with anything modern of course. But that doesn't mean it isn't interesting to occasionally compare the two to see how far we've come.

they were what they were and they are what they are now

how much was a little **** box celica putting out back then

[bullfrog]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Mine had a factory 9 inch... figure that out. Have seen other xd also with factory 9 inch.Here is one on gumtree

Regardless of what you've been told or think. There were NO factory 9" Diffs in XD.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

I never considered my A9X a muscle car either( 176 kW / 236 hp )
BUT IT WAS . I think...well maybe it wasn,t.
DEFINITION OF MUSCLE CAR.
.

The thing is buddy back in the day when these cars where new nobody in Aus referred to Aussie V8's as muscle cars, it's only latter generations and there obsession with all things Americana that the term was used. Back when I was buying my XW GT and XA/XB GT’s (and the Landau amongst others) in the late 70’s and early 80’s it was unheard off unless describing Yank muscle......

[Rob 351]

You have to drive these things to understand what it is all about! Yeah I know 149kw's out of a 351 doesn't seem like much in 2013, but it was the big mutha in it's day. My XD ESP 351 4sp is stock as a rock standard besides a 2 1/2 inch exhaust. But I get just as much enjoyment driving the XD as I do with the 335 GTP.
I look at it as being one of the last of the Australian Muscle cars with probably the XE 351 being the last. While they don't have the go of the GT 351's of the late 60's & early 70's, they still felt much more powerful than the 149kw's suggest.
You compare it to the 308 Holden of the same era which had a whopping 120 kws. If anyone can remember the VK 5.0 4 sp Commodore of the time went fairly hard & with not a great deal of weight to hall around, was rather quick. But the 351's were the Boss in the early 80's & were the ones to have probably untill the VL turbo came along in 86 with 150 kws.
There is no better feeling than driving an old school 351 Cleveland!

[GREGL]

9 inches were discontinued as a factory fitment in the 70's ( XC ? ) and toploaders with the xb . The massive 240 bhp ( 308 torana factory output ) was always a lot more fun than any 4 cylinder of the day , straight line ( lift nose ) , around a corner tail out or heading towards the trees . Honestly , what could be more fun than a seat of your pants driving experience like a 60's/70s V8 without all the tech. that saves you from looking like a idiot when you lose it . You looked like a bit of a knob turning up to the street drags on the old road down to the port in Brisbane in a 4 cyl, unless you had after market turbo on it .
IMO opinion a muscle car was defined by heavy steering , heavy clutch and the ability to attain a decent ( for the time ) quarter mile or outright speed . Landaus are now rare but not "muscle".
The same to me applies to latter day performance vehicles , to easy to drive even though they would flog a oldie every time when there running .

[bullfrog]

Originally Posted by GREGL

9 inches were discontinued as a factory fitment in the 70's ( XC ? ) and toploaders with the xb .

Thanks.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

The thing is buddy back in the day when these cars where new nobody in Aus referred to Aussie V8's as muscle cars, it's only latter generations and there obsession with all things Americana that the term was used. Back when I was buying my XW GT and XA/XB GT’s (and the Landau amongst others) in the late 70’s and early 80’s it was unheard off unless describing Yank muscle......

Which would have to be a big block version of something of course and prior to '72 , otherwise it wouldn't really much different to what we had in Oz .

[castellan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Exactly...sitting right here beside me in the bookshelf is a 1982 Wheels magazine with a review of the XE ESP Ghia with the last of the 351's. It put out...wait for it...149 romping stomping kilowatts...weren't a lot of people laughing at the new Toyota 86 for "only" putting out 147kw...?

Of course, some people come back with "Oh but they calculated the kilowatts differently with all ancillaries fitted at that time". Which is only right...they actually started testing engines as they sat in the car you drove on the street, with radiator, water pump, air filter, full exhaust system, alternator, and all anti-pollution...a far more realistic figure of what a car actually produces than a bare engine sitting on a stand revving it's head off with no water pump or alternator or exhaust or air cleaner.
In fact in a lot of motoring magazines from the late seventies after ADR27A came out, they didn't even quote power outputs...manufacturers were embarrassed by how powerful their great big V8's and big capacity sixes weren't and didn't like to advertise the fact...

It's called torque. and that makes the diffrence.
149 KW at 4200 rpm vs 147 at like 6500 rpm is a big diffrence. sort of like 2500 NM at 800 rpm vs 400 NM at 2600 rpm.

[XBROO]

What's wrong with TA's I have had a set of 295s on the coupe for the last 20 years, and they were second hand when I got them. As I got them with the mags I bought, and I love rainy days, but mind you I have Yokey C-drives on the front. As long as the front hangs on who cares where the *** end is.

[pottery beige]

you dont do enough skids

[XBROO]

Oh I do mister beige, but they are that hard that they don't even leave a mark. But they are down to the indicator blocks now. And the car did sit almost a decade, because I got sick of fixing up broken bits from mistreatment. And when bikes become my new love because you can mistreat those things and they just ask for more. If it wasn't for the wife telling me to get it going for our wedding, it probably be sitting in mums shed still.

[Angeldust]

sure cars back then had piddly power figues, but just about everyowner ripped the charcoal cannister out, so no exhaust gasses recirculated throught the carby again, and with a tune, the outputs weren't that bad.

[Bushbasher]

We never ripped out the canisters, just strategically placed appropriately sized ball bearings inside the hoses to block them off. That way when Mr Plod started sniffing around under the bonnet it all looked standard, because we had a couple of local tossers who made it their mission to make the local car guys lives as hard as possible.
I had one of them keep me on the side of the road for 20 minutes one day because he was convinced my tyres were too big and had the monkey at the other end of the radio doing the research to try and defect me. It didn't matter that I'd quoted the law back to him about the the track width and it's allowable variances and that he couldn't touch me anyway as long as the tyres were under the guards, as my track was within limits.
They don't like it when you know more about the rules than they do.

Bushbasher

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by castellan

It's called torque. and that makes the diffrence.
149 KW at 4200 rpm vs 147 at like 6500 rpm is a big diffrence. sort of like 2500 NM at 800 rpm vs 400 NM at 2600 rpm.

That's the killer. 351 clevo makes more than double the torque of the weak 86 engine. It makes like 205nm which is pretty gutless for something that's supposed to be a "sportscar".

It was the torque that got them up and going.

[Nikked]

Is this a 86 bashing thread or a thread about old muscle cars and their stories...same people, same tune...



I wonder how many Australian assembled Javelins there were?

[66GT]

I had a set of the old "kill me quick" TA's on my old EH at the time. 235x50x13's under flared guards of a 13 sec. street registered 6 cylinder daily was more than a handful in wet conditions. Never marked the car, came close many times, but went through numerous undies. Changed to the 352 Yokes with a huge improvement in the wet,but they didn't seem to last very long for some reason.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Is this a 86 bashing thread or a thread about old muscle cars and their stories...same people, same tune...



I wonder how many Australian assembled Javelins there were?

Nice cars those Javelins.
I think they assembled the AMX too. Would love me one of them.

Or even a Matador.

[superyob]

Ok, silly questions time but there seems to be much disagreeance about whether a Landau is a muscle car or not. Does it become a muscle car if they are modified and run 10s like Auslandau's car? Can my 21 second ZD Fairlane ever become a muscle car if I modified it to run 12s or whatever. Or can it only be a muscle car if it is factory stock standard?

[HO 3]

Interesting back and forth banter.........got me thinking maybe its about time we start calling the XR-XY box car models 'pony cars', meaning smaller, as the yanks call their early 65-70 mustang........after 1971 both here and in the States cars across most manufacturers cars, wether you want to call them muscle cars or not, they tended to become bigger, fatter, slower and apparently rarer

Cheers Mick

[max_torq]

Since it is lacking stripes, scoops and wings the landau is not a muscle car, rather, like thunderbird, it is a 'personal car'.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by HO 3

Interesting back and forth banter.........got me thinking maybe its about time we start calling the XR-XY box car models 'pony cars', meaning smaller, as the yanks call their early 65-70 mustang........after 1971 both here and in the States cars across most manufacturers cars, wether you want to call them muscle cars or not, they tended to become bigger, fatter, slower and apparently rarer

Cheers Mick

Interesting never knew that's why they called them pony cars, I just thought because a mustangs a horse.

Love Landaus but I wouldn't call them a muscle car, just the same as I wouldn't call any automatic car one. To me a muscle car has to be a manual and at least have some sort of racing history. And yes I do agree with an earlier post about the term muscle being American, but I think our Aussie cars deserve the title too. Mine's a Mcleod horn car, if I cracked a horn that's a muscle isn't it?

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by bullfrog

Thanks.

That may be the case.
I know what I had and it was factory fitted 9 inch with tow bar etc etc bilstien shocks, front and rear sway bars,. XD not XE.
This has been annoying me.
So upon further research I have discovered this where it clearly states ( section N )that there was a tow pack option with HEAVY DUTY REAR AXLE.
And that would be a 9 inch



http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au...lcon_XD_19.jpg

[Shonky.]

don't see how heavy duty axle = 9 inch

XD was not available with 9 inch