Ford losing out by not selling XR8? - Page 3

MitchG · 16-09-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Oh gee, I didn't realise you needed a petrol V8 to tow? I wonder how all those people in dual cab 4x4s or vans with diesel 4 cylinder engines are getting their trailers and tools to and from work?

How many V8 Falcons sell a month compared to everything else? That's how many people need V8s.

Its not 1970 anymore.

well not everyone wants a jacked up diesel 4x4.
i actully find it awkward at times getting tools out the work hilux cause of its height.

just my opinion anyway.

jimmyxr6t04 · 16-09-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not enough people wanted them otherwise the XR8 would still be on sale.

That's true, but they've replaced it with a superior option, for not a lot more cost...

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 10:23 AM

Ford arguably makes more money out of diesel Territory sales than it does chasing after Falcon performance buyers.
There's a big lesson in that...around 1,000 sales/mth that are over $50K retail and not performance related..

FPV+fteT3 · 16-09-2012, 10:40 AM

I bought my BA XR8 ute new and traded it on my S/P new and it's not 1970. That box of tools that fits in your focus with the seats down fits in my boot so whats your point? You like your imported refrigerator unit and I like others want something different, its not all about what Damo wants now is it?

XR8 is gone if you want a V8 its an FPV derivative or nothing. If you cant see the extra value in owning an FPV vehicle buy the XR6 or buy something else.

I dont know about ford missing out on anything the people who save a few bucks say buying the SS commo over the GS want to check the resale value of the SS to any FPV come time to move it on, the little bit exra you paid at the start of the journey will come back at trade in time.

A BA GT is worth say @20k a BA XR8 @10-12k theres your difference in purchase price right there between a current GS and SS.

Brazen · 16-09-2012, 10:52 AM

The SS is a great starting point to get people into a Holden, and over time they move up the range into more expensive HSVs. You dont have that progression anymore with Ford.

Brazen · 16-09-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford arguably makes more money out of diesel Territory sales than it does chasing after Falcon performance buyers.
There's a big lesson in that...around 1,000 sales/mth that are over $50K retail and not performance related..

And yet they chase fleet 4 cylinder buyers with Ecoboost XT?

Brazen · 16-09-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

People are funny like that, you gotta give the market what they want....

If you make it competitive it will sell, in 2005 when the 5.4 was new and competitive to Holden they bloody sold over 4000 XR8s that year. Since then Holden has constantly refined the V8 formula to be where they can be selling as 1 in 4 as a V8. A supercharged V8 XR8 would blow the Holden V8 out of the water and finally give the Ford dealers in the mining towns and the cattle/grain farming areas (a few years after the drought broke, and they have money!!) something to tackle the SS. FPV have no presence outside a few dealers in the capital cities. Why you wouldnt want to harness the full Ford dealer network escapes me.

Driving past our tiny Holden dealer all they have are SS utes and Colorados - that is what sells out here.

flappist · 16-09-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Driving past our tiny Holden dealer all they have are SS utes and Colorados - that is what sells out here.

Please buy one....pretty please.......

Try and get a green one, it will go with your big hammer you keep under your bridge.

**ebxr8240** · 16-09-2012, 11:51 AM

Saying you can't buy a performance car because you can't speed..
Is bit like saying 6 spoons of sugar in my coffee thanks..
BUT don't stir as I don't like it sweet !!!

Brazen · 16-09-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Please buy one....pretty please.......

Try and get a green one, it will go with your big hammer you keep under your bridge.

Moderator using a troll comment instead of a well reasoned argument. Good heavens....

**DJM83** · 16-09-2012, 12:27 PM

i went to buy a turbo falcon and bought a focus.

Threads like this make me wonder, if the XR6T was never born where would the XR8 be now?

To the OP, IMO there is nothing wrong with a VE SSV in ute form, hell id have a white manual SSV ute no problemo.

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

And yet they chase fleet 4 cylinder buyers with Ecoboost XT?

I recall Ford saying EcoLPI = fleet sales and Ecoboost was for retail buyers.
Sure there was an opportunity to chase Govco fleet sales with Ecoboost but since fleet managers
started mis interpreting data on green vehicles guide regarding pollution ratings applied vehicles exceeding Euro 4,
that site is now changing how it presents data to better reflect the intention of showing low CO2 vehicles.

It's ahocking indictment that govcos mangers ignore local Ford, Toyota and Holden and just go buy Korean imports.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

If you make it competitive it will sell, in 2005 when the 5.4 was new and competitive to Holden they bloody sold over 4000 XR8s that year. Since then Holden has constantly refined the V8 formula to be where they can be selling as 1 in 4 as a V8. A supercharged V8 XR8 would blow the Holden V8 out of the water and finally give the Ford dealers in the mining towns and the cattle/grain farming areas (a few years after the drought broke, and they have money!!) something to tackle the SS. FPV have no presence outside a few dealers in the capital cities. Why you wouldnt want to harness the full Ford dealer network escapes me.

And I would put to you that the buyer demographics of SS Commodore versus XR8 have only a small overlap,
what works for one group may not necessarily appeal to the other one and vise versa..

Yes, a S/C XR8 would have the goods on an SS but you're not going to get it for the same price,
if Ford entertains an XR8 then maybe mid $50K is what people can expect to pay, otherwise GS is it.
See, to Ford selling less units at GS's higher price is always better compared to selling XR8 for $10K less...
It's simple economics...

Quote:

Driving past our tiny Holden dealer all they have are SS utes and Colorados - that is what sells out here.

But here's a problem, one single point of reference, assuming that is indicative of the whole market is misleading,
monthly sales are a much better indicator of where the market is heading....

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

i went to buy a turbo falcon and bought a focus.

Threads like this make me wonder, if the XR6T was never born where would the XR8 be now?
.

Sales wise, the I-6 turbo was actually far more popular than the V8s until recently......
From what Bossxr8 tells us, they're only building about 120 I-6T engines a month...

Without an I-6 Turbo, Ford would have probably gone with a S/C 4.6 DOHC in low and high boost...

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

I bought my BA XR8 ute new and traded it on my S/P new and it's not 1970. That box of tools that fits in your focus with the seats down fits in my boot so whats your point? You like your imported refrigerator unit and I like others want something different, its not all about what Damo wants now is it?

XR8 is gone if you want a V8 its an FPV derivative or nothing. If you cant see the extra value in owning an FPV vehicle buy the XR6 or buy something else.

I dont know about ford missing out on anything the people who save a few bucks say buying the SS commo over the GS want to check the resale value of the SS to any FPV come time to move it on, the little bit exra you paid at the start of the journey will come back at trade in time.

A BA GT is worth say @20k a BA XR8 @10-12k theres your difference in purchase price right there between a current GS and SS.

Thats right, its not what Damo wants and its not what you want either, its what everyone wants and it doesn't seem to be V8 Falcons, if people wanted them they would sell, which is why I don't see the point in XR8.

Auslandau · 16-09-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The SS is a great starting point to get people into a Holden, and over time they move up the range into more expensive HSVs. You dont have that progression anymore with Ford.

I do not understand that logic? So an 18 year old's first car is a brand new SS? Once they buy one they will never change brands? Thats it for ever? An SS is the be all and end all and all those that buy one end up in a HSV?

They are NOT the V8 car company ....... AND they have way less options than Ford, so on that basis, Ford should be kicking their Bum because of options?

As you and others believe that Ford offer nothing ......... Just in the FG range. NOT including the Australian made Diesel Terry etc .... as just so many seem to forget ........

XT - 4EcoBoost, 6N/A, 6EcoLPI
XR6 - 6N/A, 6Turbo, 6EcoLPI
G6 - 4EcoBoost, 6N/A, 6EcoLPI
G6E - 4EcoBoost, 6N/A, 6Turbo, 6EcoLPI
GS - 8 SC
GT - 8 SC
GT-E - 8SC
GT-P -8 SC
GT-RSPEC -8 SC

Then there are the utes .....

NOW ..... if you want to list the wonderful engine options in the GM/HSV range. Should only take a second? How are their 6T and 8 Supercharged engines going? How about offering a 4 cylinder ...... ?

They can put 'SS' on the side of a Daewoo and they will STILL be bought by the red team. That's the way it is.

There is a fan base for both makes. If someone want to jump ship to the red side because there is not a product available from Ford ...... SO BE IT. SA LA VIE. MOVE ON! They are not going to make 1 just because a few fan boys want to buy one second hand. If there is nothing that suits in the (huge) line up above ...... Buy something else~!

That's the way the market works. Give Ford a little bit of credence. I am sure they would have done their homework on this

prydey · 16-09-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Moderator using a troll comment instead of a well reasoned argument. Good heavens....

who determines what is a well reasoned argument. you probably think yours are, however others see it as trolling.

Windsor220 · 16-09-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

XT - 4EcoBoost, 6N/A, 6EcoLPI
XR6 - 6N/A, 6Turbo, 6EcoLPI
G6 - 4EcoBoost, 6N/A, 6EcoLPI
G6E - 4EcoBoost, 6N/A, 6Turbo, 6EcoLPI
GS - 8 SC
GT - 8 SC
GT-E - 8SC
GT-P -8 SC
GT-RSPEC -8 SC

Don't forget
F6
F6-E

Auslandau · 16-09-2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Don't forget
F6
F6-E

I did forget actually

Auslandau · 16-09-2012, 03:40 PM

ALSO LIKE TO NOTE:

Settle down a little please ....... people will have differing opinions on these types of topics, take note of these differences, either discuss or move on.

Constant Ford bashing with the same repetitive agenda from the same members will be regarded as trolling and if this is anyone's way of thinking ...... there are other sites that do cater for this I am sure.

Please move on ......

Fiesta_Man69 · 16-09-2012, 03:50 PM

Why not slot the 8 in to the base model XT?

Just the engine and bigger front brakes.

No body kits, no huge wheels, standard suspension, base spec interior... Similar to what Holden did with the SV8 with the VZ years ago.

Undercut the SS by a few grand... Just an idea.

scottyg938 · 16-09-2012, 03:58 PM

This wasn't necessarily saying bring back the XR8, more pointing out that there is a gap in the market for a more budget friendly V8 which has been filled by holden and IS pushing buyers over to them

Itsme · 16-09-2012, 05:24 PM

As for the title of the topic I think Ford is losing out by not selling XR8, one less range of ford line up.... simple as that!!!

prydey · 16-09-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Why not slot the 8 in to the base model XT?

Just the engine and bigger front brakes.

No body kits, no huge wheels, standard suspension, base spec interior... Similar to what Holden did with the SV8 with the VZ years ago.

Undercut the SS by a few grand... Just an idea.

there is a reason why neither manufacturer go down this road anymore. no other manufacturer does it. want a v8 bmw, you have to buy the model they decide to put the v8 in, same with merc, audi, etc etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

This wasn't necessarily saying bring back the XR8, more pointing out that there is a gap in the market for a more budget friendly V8 which has been filled by holden and IS pushing buyers over to them

sales figures for both manufacturers are in the same direction, so they aren't exactly causing too many buyers to jump ship. enthusiast forums aren't exactly an accurate cross section of the real situation.

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Why not slot the 8 in to the base model XT?

Just the engine and bigger front brakes.

No body kits, no huge wheels, standard suspension, base spec interior... Similar to what Holden did with the SV8 with the VZ years ago.

Undercut the SS by a few grand... Just an idea.

They did that with the BA XT, you could option up 3V V8 and 5sp manual.

Fiesta_Man69 · 16-09-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

They did that with the BA XT, you could option up 3V V8 and 5sp manual.

They could try it again with the turbo six and the eight. I wonder how many ppl would be keen to buy a cut price no frills t6 or 8? And I mean no frills to keep the price down...

Auslandau · 16-09-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

They did that with the BA XT, you could option up 3V V8 and 5sp manual.

Yep. Probably worth more now as a novelty as I think they sold 3 of them.

prydey · 16-09-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

They could try it again with the turbo six and the eight. I wonder how many ppl would be keen to buy a cut price no frills t6 or 8? And I mean no frills to keep the price down...

as mentioned, they did it with BA and had virtually no takers. of course everyone will blame the apparent lack lustre engine.....

regardless, the most vocal on this topic will never have a new v8 falcon in the drive.

**DFB FGXR6** · 16-09-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

as mentioned, they did it with BA and had virtually no takers. of course everyone will blame the apparent lack lustre engine.....

regardless, the most vocal on this topic will never have a new v8 falcon in the drive.

At the time a BA XT with the optional V8 was about 40 grand. Then you had to add madatory 17'' alloys and sports suspention. Premium brakes were also "recomended" with the V8. So by the time all the madatory options were added to the price of XT V8, it was not the cheap sleeper it was made out to be and hence slow sales.

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yep. Probably worth more now as a novelty as I think they sold 3 of them.

Makes you wonder does it even hurt having that as an option? For example you might have one or two customers who want it, just don't build them to leave laying around the dealership floor.

You get that odd customer in who wants some weird combination, say Ecoboost XT with 6sp manual, and he wants it even though he has to wait 6 months until it gets built or something?

I guess you might have to do some ECU wizardry because something that has been programmed for an auto won't like having a manual transmission in there, and its not as simple as adding a resistor inline with certain pins on the ECU anymore

.

I guess its all the same module just its been "flashed" with different software.

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Why not slot the 8 in to the base model XT?

Just the engine and bigger front brakes.

No body kits, no huge wheels, standard suspension, base spec interior... Similar to what Holden did with the SV8 with the VZ years ago.

Undercut the SS by a few grand... Just an idea.

Because it's still an XT and the cost of doing that, setting up the car for the limited sales is just not worth it.
You may as well offer the I-6T in an XT but here's the rub, the front section of XT, G-Series and XRs are different
enough to require that each version has to have the ECU recalibrated and be crash tested, you're talking millions to do it.

I know what you're getting at, you want to offer cheap performance to buyers in the hope of attracting more sales,
Ford could do that by offering XR6T at $42,990 drive away and while you think about that ask yourself why doesn't Ford do it?
The answer in this case is that it's better to build less cars and charge more for them, throwing away profit for more sales is pointless..