The Chinese Chinaman cars mostly local, some international - Shanghai Autoshow 2009

[Hardtopxb]

[QUOTE=vztrt]That means they can't export it here. Mind you what they will do is buy an engine from /os and put it into the car so it passes emission standards. I know thats what they are doing with their wheel loaders.. Mate nothing would surprise me regarding the inscrutable chinese. They are pulling early japanese business practices on everyone..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Hardtopxb

Mate nothing would surprise me regarding the inscrutable chinese. They are pulling early japanese business practices on everyone..

it worked for the Japanese, so why wouldn't they

[Hardtopxb]

Originally Posted by vztrt

it worked for the Japanese, so why wouldn't they

Exactly..

[Elguapo]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

The Geely GE looks VERY similar to a Rolls Royce Phantom...

Rolls Royce know that too....

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/23/r...inst-geely-ge/

[ltd]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Wow you dont think that might be a politically motivated speech do you? Dont worry i am sure Rudd will protect his precious Holden when/if the time comes.

His precious Holden? Are you serious?
Politically motivated? No. Salient point though about the future of the car industry that has already been intimated by the PM? Yes.

The facts are that the federal government has given the green light for Chinese cars in Australia, and I was drawing reference to the fact that your beloved Kevin07 loves all things china, like the 200 billion dollar loan, the language, the secret meetings with chinese nationals, the chinese governments companies buying our mines, communism and even the fact he can speak the language.
Don't worry yourself about the serious things though as you sit back and spend the dollars (that you'll have to pay back plus interest.... woops) that only an inept, populist government in election mode can bring. Oh, and spare not a thought for our car industry nor the hundreds of thousands employed in it; as you can save 10 grand on some cheap knock off new car from China. Just remember, the whole world was put here just for your convenience, no need to care about anyone else now is there? :the_finge

[Bossxr8]

In todays Carsguide it has an article about Chinese cars that will soon be sold here, with a starting price around $12,500. You'd have to have a brain the size of a peanut to buy one over something like a Getz for another $1000 more. At least you know it wouldn't fold up like a tin can in a crash and could survive more than 3-4 years without having to be sent to the wreckers cause its falling apart.

These cars will be throwaway items in under 5 years, they will be utter rubbish.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

In todays Carsguide it has an article about Chinese cars that will soon be sold here, with a starting price around $12,500. You'd have to have a brain the size of a peanut to buy one over something like a Getz for another $1000 more. At least you know it wouldn't fold up like a tin can in a crash and could survive more than 3-4 years without having to be sent to the wreckers cause its falling apart.

These cars will be throwaway items in under 5 years, they will be utter rubbish.

Geely GE Paddock basher, everyone would be shocked that you're trashing a Rolls Royce Phantom haha.

The similarities....

[Gobes32]

Anybody who would buy a Chinese car should their heads in shame. You are endorsing their trade practices of woeful working conditions and limited rights. When you go to work each day you are given the best chance possible of returning home safe, the chinese workers do not have that basic right. Need proof?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdH1ezM7To

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Anybody who would buy a Chinese car should their heads in shame. You are endorsing their trade practices of woeful working conditions and limited rights. When you go to work each day you are given the best chance possible of returning home safe, the chinese workers do not have that basic right. Need proof?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdH1ezM7To

No one needs proof because the sad fact is 99.5% of the people don't give a fat rats ***. What ever is cheaper and basically the same, they'll buy.

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

The similarities....

Geez, I didn't realise they went as far as even ripping off the badges :

[08XR8]

Geely has just bought Drivetrain Systems International here in Albury NSW

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Watto_Cobra

Geez, I didn't realise they went as far as even ripping off the badges :

Seen the Aussie CHI cylinder head ripoffs ?
They used CHI's actual flow figure graph stolen from their website, 100% the same apart from the names, they have no concern about ripping western business's off at all.

This has been going on for some times with parts, it's a natural progression to cars.

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by driven shaft

Geely has just bought Drivetrain Systems International here in Albury NSW

I wonder how long before they strip it and take what they want to China? Coupla years? I know someone who "used" to work at DSI.

[Gobes32]

Another point, they do not have the advanced factories of the US and Japan, and to an extent Australia. Their presses are the old cast aways from existing manufacturers. So they do not have the capacity to stamp out a one piece bodyside etc, what this means is that the structural rigidness of their cars is equivalent to 90's model cars from Toyota, Mazda and VW etc. Like Hyundai, they will eventually find their feet and produce good quality vehicles in 20 years from now. We can only hope their employees conditions are improved by then?

[ryanstev]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I like the MG one at the top.

I'd rather have the original, a Subaru WRX.

[vztrt]

Fantastic cheap unsafe cars coming to Australia.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...=62444&IsPgd=0

Chinese cars on track for June launch
Andrew Heasley, drive.com.au, May 2, 2009

Two cut-price workhorse utes will spearhead a Chinese assault on the Australian market this year. By ANDREW HEASLEY.

The arrival of Chinese cars into Australia could force a new-car price war but take its toll on used-car values, industry observers warn.

As importers jostle to be the first to market with Chinese cars later this year, the car industry's established encyclopedia of vehicle values, Glass's Guide, says the industry is expecting to see new Chinese-made car prices between 20 and 30 per cent lower, on average, than similar types of cars already on the market.

Glass's marketing manager Nick Adamidis said existing sellers of light cars and compact soft-roaders would initially bear the brunt of cheaper Chinese models.

"If they (importers of Chinese cars) are as successful as Hyundai was when they launched with the Excel back in the mid-90s, then you might start to see new-car price discounting, which will then push down the used-car prices of all the rest of the vehicles in the segment," Mr Adamidis said.

Ateco Automotive looks to be the first on the blocks to bring Chinese cars to Australia this year, starting as early as next month .

The first two models to arrive are dual-cab pickups, built by prominent Chinese car company Great Wall, Ateco's managing director Ric Hull told Drive at the recent 2009 Shanghai motor show in China.

With a starting price of $16,900 for commercial users with ABN registrations, the SA220, (called the "Sailor" in its domestic guise) will be joined by the V240, (called the "Wingle A5", pictured).

The Great Wall models will be supported by a three-year/100,000-kilometre warranty with roadside assistance and be backed by 55 dealers nationwide.

A small passenger car, called the "Florid" in China, will follow. And the price?

"$8990 would be nice, but I don't think we can do that," Mr Hull said.

Under $10,000?

"It might have been possible before the Aussie dollar devalued to the extent that it has against the Chinese yuan. But it's also a question of how long the others (rival entry-level light cars) can stay down there too (at present low prices).

"It's a currency-driven market and who can predict? The Koreans are having a free ride (that is, enjoying favourable exchange rates) at the moment but it probably won't last."

Local manufacturers Holden and Ford might feel the tougher environment as they start making small cars here (Holden with the Cruze, Ford with the Focus), Mr Adamidis warns, while the Korean brands as well as marques in the comparatively resilient light and small car segments, including Japan's Toyota, would feel the price pressure too, he said.

"Right now, the best market for retained values are small and light (cars) ... because of fuel efficiency and people reducing their costs of ownership, but if China ends up exporting vehicles in those segments - and that's what they specialise in - then those vehicles in those segments will be affected,'' he said.

An onslaught of Chinese cars could have wider ramifications for the car industry here that is already suffering amid the global economic crisis.

"As unemployment starts rising, people reduce their purchases of large capitial items like homes and motor vehicles, holidays. That means demand for vehicles will drop off if unemployment starts to rise," Mr Adamidis said.

"If you're getting supply-side pressures, where the price of new cars is 20 per cent less than the current vehicles in that segment, that'll exacerbate the issue.

"There are multiple factors that are going to negatively affect it (the automotive economy) in the next six to 12 months."

Toyota Australia spokesman Mike Breen said it was unclear exactly what Chinese products might compete with Toyota's.

"At this stage we'll have to wait and see what their tactics are, and respond accordingly," Mr Breen said.

"Toyota, over time, has built up a reputation for durability, reliability and quality, so that will prevail in the future."

Would Toyota have to cut the price of its small car champions, Yaris and Corolla?

"We'll just have to see what their pricing policy is before we can make any decisions.

"We'll keep a close eye on their movements and make the decision when we need to."

Mr Adamidis said the Chinese cars would have a significant advantage here, not withstanding extra costs incurred to comply with Australian design, safety and emissions standards.

"Because the massive economies of scale are so huge and their cost of labour is so low, they've got a massive competitive advantage,'' he said.

Another Chinese brand, Lifan, is readying three models to launch in Australia, including its Mini-lookalike, the 320 (pictred). The first model, a conventional sedan, is likely to arrive before the end of 2009.

[Zedjay]

Originally Posted by cheek

I will NEVER buy a chinese car, due to the fact that they treat their own people like CRAP! Im not sure on the exact figures but I hate how much they pay their workers. Buy Australian!

80% of every thing you buy comes from china

TVs,DVD players,computers,even your clothing

[Yellow_Festiva]

Looking through the pictures on page 1, it is obvious that there are multiple rip-offs from other manufacturers.

I wonder how many of those other manufacturers actually use China to make smaller components and sub-assemblies for their own cars??

I can just see the Chinese car manufacturers now strolling through the factories choosing headlights, grilles, interior components, side mirrors etc straight off the production lines of other brands and just applying them to their own cars.

$0 spent on R&D, tooling and I bet they buy it for a fraction of the price that the rightful owner pays for the same unit.

Right now there are many millions of Chinese workers ready to work for $1 an hour or less.

In short... the competition is rooted. Not right now, but soon enough. No wonder China wants to buy into our mining opperations.

And for those who say that they won't ever buy Chinese due to how they treat their workers??? Stop making fool's of yourselves. 80-90% of what you buy is from there already.

There were a few cases of car companies taking Chinese manufactrers to court and winning. China created a "Smart Car" rip-off and was successfully sued.

If someone sits on google for 30 minutes and researches what goes on in that country in terms of human rights / workers rights / manufacturing standards / the lack of governing bodies like we have to watch over Pharmacutical testing and manufacture and just general ethics.. you will be.. well left very disturbed..

Oh, and another interesting fact not many people may know. China and India were the world leaders in trade for about 18 and a half of the 20 centuries in the common era. So this could be somewhat of a correction, bringing things back to how they were before the emergence of the recent superpowers last century.

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by Paxton

EVO X anyone?

Yep first thing I thought as well and then when I saw you quote it I knew you were going to mention it.

[cheek]

Originally Posted by Zedjay

80% of every thing you buy comes from china

TVs,DVD players,computers,even your clothing

If they made those products over here I would buy them over chinese rubbish anyday!

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by cheek

If they made those products over here I would buy them over chinese rubbish anyday!

Buy Pioneer than, Made in Japan, except the entry level models started at around $5000, but oh wait. Pioneer stopped making TVs due to the GFC.

Looks like you're out of luck buddy ;)

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by cheek

If they made those products over here I would buy them over chinese rubbish anyday!

I try to stick with Toshiba. They manufacture in Japan and the quality shows. As for clothing, it's either China or nowhere. Have a look through Target, etc and try and find one item of clothing that does not say "Made in China"

[XR_Strider_GuY]

We are car enthusiasts on a Ford Falcon based forum, hence the general negative sediments of this news. But the sad fact is this, these Chinese companies comming to Australia now are identical to when Alan Bond introduced the Hyundai Excel in 1985. I bet back then people laughed and were even more bitter about the Korean cars. Remember those were days when our beloved Falcon was king and the best selling car here by a country mile. Now take a look at it, seems the Falcon is a boutique product only appreciated by the selected few. Sadly chappies, selected few does not shift metal these days. Yes, things are crook in tallarook for our Falcon and our respected play ground arch rival Commodore.

I can see where people come from in terms of safety and copy cat designs (Japanese have been doing it for years and still do to some extent). But lets look at the principle, in these times everyone wants cheap. Otherwise Hyundai would of packed up with their brief cases and shut up shop. $13,990 brand new cars, Memory stick on wheels where more mb for less rules the accountant books. This is what people want. These Chinese companies are merely making cars to what people demand. Classic case of doing business.

Yeap I can see it, our Falcons will be like those American muscle cars of the 60's and 70's specialist enthusiasts who appreciate them and form clubs to talk old cars, old music and live for the sound of Vee 8 brawn or turbo rush induction.

I'll see you at the club with my XR8 playing the tune of the Boss quad cam rumble from the exhaust pipe and Dakota by Stereophonics from my premium audio.
I will be harping back to the days of the late ninties where petrol was 80c Litre and whinging how the Sydney Olympics is going to kill the economy.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

We are car enthusiasts on a Ford Falcon based forum, hence the general negative sediments of this news. But the sad fact is this, these Chinese companies comming to Australia now are identical to when Alan Bond introduced the Hyundai Excel in 1985. I bet back then people laughed and were even more bitter about the Korean cars. Remember those were days when our beloved Falcon was king and the best selling car here by a country mile. Now take a look at it, seems the Falcon is a boutique product only appreciated by the selected few. Sadly chappies, selected few does not shift metal these days. Yes, things are crook in tallarook for our Falcon and our respected play ground arch rival Commodore.

I can see where people come from in terms of safety and copy cat designs (Japanese have been doing it for years and still do to some extent). But lets look at the principle, in these times everyone wants cheap. Otherwise Hyundai would of packed up with their brief cases and shut up shop. $13,990 brand new cars, Memory stick on wheels where more mb for less rules the accountant books. This is what people want. These Chinese companies are merely making cars to what people demand. Classic case of doing business.

Yeap I can see it, our Falcons will be like those American muscle cars of the 60's and 70's specialist enthusiasts who appreciate them and form clubs to talk old cars, old music and live for the sound of Vee 8 brawn or turbo rush induction.

I'll see you at the club with my XR8 playing the tune of the Boss quad cam rumble from the exhaust pipe and Dakota by Stereophonics from my premium audio.
I will be harping back to the days of the late ninties where petrol was 80c Litre and whinging how the Sydney Olympics is going to kill the economy.

The only problem I have with these cars are the safety aspect. The government are already on people about road safety and want the road toll reduced. If they were so serious then they would ban unsafe cars and make car manufactures actually increase the safety on their cars.
These Chinese make cars will target the younger age groups who are statistically more prone to car accidents and death.

[mik]

looking at those crash test video`s it looks like the occupants body`s will add extra structural integrity to the chinese cars that was not added due to the cheap construction ... :togo:

[bathurst77]

Of course these things will be cheaper, like all the other chinese made goods sold worldwide.

extremly low wages, No health and safety, long hours. no workers rights or conditions (think early industrial revolution europe)

Environmentally toxic factories with ZERO pollution control, carbon control etc. (Imagine if Ford could jsut dump all liquid and chemical run off from the factories into nearest river and vent any those toxic fumes out the window or up a funnel. no filters waste handling etc)

substitute flimsy material and cheap parts made in similar factories for the quality parts in oz/euro/jap cars. I wold be very suspect at the stregnth of unseen strutural crossmembers etc. Be also interesting to se the tolerances, body stregnth panel gaps, regidity etc created in thoses factories. Fit finish, materials and reliability bmay be an issue.

I know as a fact china doesnt adhere to western quality control theory. THey dont test and try to constantly improve. Their theory is, make millions of items wuick and cheap, if customers return somme jsut replace. WHich is all well and good witha cd player or camera. But with a car?

Now as to R and D and design money. They dont spend a lot there. Just buy a couple of current models and get someone handy with a pen to redraw it with new details.


Still thats how jap car industry got started. Goodness knows in 20 years

[bingoTE50]

I have no doubt that many of the car manufacturers represented in these photos would have some connection .How could you not support the largest growing car market in the world.These manufacturers are coming to the fore because of local demand , not because they want to take on the world. hand drive and I saw many There are many first class manufacturing facilities in China. The only things that will hold them back is technological knowhow.But they will and do ,employ experts from other Companies to bridge that gap.I do not believe that they will take as long as Korea to get up to speed.Most of these manufacturers are more than likely partially or fully owned by the chinese government.
They do not like to lose face... These vehicles certainly appear better than some other offerings out there.Russia or India anyone..
One day they will make a Ford for the American market no doubt...they are left hand drive after all...The yanks struggle to make a decent daily driver now and there manufacturers are on the rails....why wouldn't you send your top guys over and instruct the chinese on what you want...and get it for much less...makes sense to me..

[MethodX]

i dont mind the Red flag Suv and Gmw chc0011
The rest are pretty must a pastiche of other makers styling cues, as ppl have previously stated.

[Gobes32]

The Chinese would be poaching a lot of engineers from GM and Chrysler.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Buy Pioneer than, Made in Japan, except the entry level models started at around $5000, but oh wait. Pioneer stopped making TVs due to the GFC.

Looks like you're out of luck buddy ;)

Isnt Sony made and assembled in Japan? Samsung components are the same but assembled in Taiwan.

You can still buy something that are made in Oz but they are becoming fewer and fewer.

I have heard off machinery agents being called back becuase the machine they sold the chinese no longer works - when they have flown over their they have found it not their machine but a chinese copy and they cant figure out how to get it going so they ask the agents to come back and hopefully they wont tell the difference (they can tell the difference and usually get on the next flight)

Scary thing is presently we can demand quality as we have competition etc - imagine if all other auto manufacturers close up shop and everything comes in from China.... you wont be able to demand anything and in my opinion the quality standards will drop and we will have no choice but to accept it.