Aussie car bashing - Page 3

joolz · 05-02-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoon

Dont believe everything the raw material suppliers tell you, I have been involved in the plastics industry for 28 years, having worked in the car industry as a supplier and many other different industries in all styles of plastics and processes from injection moulding, to blow molding to fabrication to extrusion using all types of polymers from commodity plastics to high grade engineering plastics. I have dealt with all of the suppliers from all over the world. The car manufacturers do not compromise on the polymers they use when they design vehicles, the materials are very carefully specced, whether they be a euro, jap or aussie cars and they all use the same polymers for each part of the vehicle. The cost of using a cheaper material would be negligable per part for different polymers. Yes the car manufacturers will screw the suppliers on price, but they wont deviate from a specced material to something cheaper, it just doesnt work like that, believe me.

I totally agree, its called a PPAP. Suppliers must complete these before they can supply components to Ford and they are to great detail.

phoon · 05-02-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

What you will find is that people will look really hard on the cars to find issues. Yet on a euro or jap car it will be perceived as top quality and having a look will not be as important.

The Mazda SUV and the escape are the same car yet in satisfaction of quality tests the Mazda always scores higher.

Yep, you are probably right in what you say there.

mrbaxr6t · 05-02-2009, 07:13 PM

fact is every car that will ever be built will be flawed, humans error we can't escape that and as hard as we try to make things perfect we just can't. Every car I have ever seen has a flaw, a weakness or an issue either by a design slip up or through user abuse.

Wally · 05-02-2009, 08:23 PM

Just think of Holdens and Fords as being our contribution to Wabi.

4Vman · 05-02-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joolz

I totally agree, its called a PPAP. Suppliers must complete these before they can supply components to Ford and they are to great detail.

PPAP's can be a crock too... ive been involved with too many to know the politics....
At the end of the day as long as it meets Fords original design that's all that matters.. If that design is compromised or short cut it will be the same for final parts submission.

geckoGT · 05-02-2009, 09:24 PM

I tried to keep out of this but I can't. In my opinion 90% of the problem is reliability and service. My last 3 cars have been Fords but I am very hesitant to buy another. To understand why you have to look at the history of my last 3.

BAI XR8
Warping brake rotors (4 times before 40,000km), noisy handbrake, rough idle and loss of power (complained at three services, nothing done until the fourth complaint and then they found a faulty ECU), Rear axles died, chewed out diff bush, timing chain rattle, rust in boot and strut towers, creak from steering rack and finally shorting out power socket. This was all before the car had 80,000km on it. No loan car at all.

BAII GT
Rough idle from day one, finally cured by me when I changed the O2 sensors, front suspension collapse, diff bush chewed out, rust in boot, timing chain rattle, auto died completely, sub woofer died twice (1 died 3 days after being replaced), ford mechanic reported brake pads ok at service and <5000km later metal on metal, paint peeling on front bar, creak from steering rack and engine mysteriously dies when cruising on motorway. Loan car once after the brakes.

BFI Super Pursuit
Driveline clunk from day one (reported every service, always "acceptable limits", now after 65,000km they admit it is not right), motor dying at highway speeds, speedo intermittantly does not work, suspension squeeks (numerous times), front brake pads crumbled in first 5000km, paint on front calipers peeled, paint on plennum blistered and creaking from steering rack. No loan car for any issues.

Now we have a Mini Cooper S and we have had three issues. The first was they had trouble loading the tune on the ECU for the JCW tuning kit (loan car supplied), second was a warping bonnet scoop (loan car supplied) and the last was a warped A pillar trim. That is it.

I have also got a few friends that have VW golf and jettas at work, no issues yet.

Now the FG is a great car, I love the styling (did not at first but it has grown on me), the performance and features are first rate. The scary thing is, if I get one am I going to have another list as above. That is why I am also thinking very seriously about a VW Jetta turbo or Passat R36.

That is the only reason I knock Fords, their service record from my experience. The rest of Ford ownership is all good.

05-02-2009, 09:42 PM

lmao very true

mik · 05-02-2009, 10:03 PM

did you buy them all new geckoGT?

geckoGT · 05-02-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

did you buy them all new geckoGT?

Yes, not that you would guess by the list, you would think they all had at least 150 000km on them.

**FTE217** · 05-02-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

PPAP's can be a crock too... ive been involved with too many to know the politics....At the end of the day as long as it meets Fords original design that's all that matters.. If that design is compromised or short cut it will be the same for final parts submission.

I'll second the bold comment,am involved and have been for years.

**FTE217** · 05-02-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Now the FG is a great car, I love the styling (did not at first but it has grown on me), the performance and features are first rate. The scary thing is, if I get one am I going to have another list as above. That is why I am also thinking very seriously about a VW Jetta turbo or Passat R36.

That is the only reason I knock Fords, their service record from my experience. The rest of Ford ownership is all good.

So true geckoGT, hence why I'm still sticking with "better the devil you know"
theory re the T3.
I'm waiting to see want pans out with the FG (I liked the shape from the start) but man I'm reluctant buying another Ford,especially having to deal with a dealer again re service's,wtys issues, it should be a no argument within reason, in the motor game this country has been very good at having "the customer is guilty till he turns black and blue to prove their innocense".....is it Ford specific ? no but over the years they must be close to the top of the pile. Ok some case's are dealer specific due to many things but thats not to go on here.
Is the quality better today than before ? its modern and very light for weight reduction, hence probably won't stand the test of time imo (but heck my first car was a HGKingswood), unless she's a garage queen. Fitment is fair again my opinion but maybe I'm just getting older and willing to pay for more, yer I'll look at a second hand low k RS4wagon and don't mind the R36 Passat also

vanman_75 · 05-02-2009, 11:24 PM

size for money would be my biggest thing ,m3 ain't falcon sized .its a whole lot less car that a falcon.want a falcon sized euro you will have to rob a bank.

as i have said in other threads its the choice of finish on the plastics that bugs me .the ripple effect seems to be best for not noticing marks ,all the new shiny grey chrome etc finishes scratch with a fingernail both my nissan and suzuki look as old as my xd on the inside ,and im a fanatic ,but a gentle rub and its marked .
from what i have seen all new cars euro and aus are making the same mistake ,dont guess to compare go have a look .even a new car in yard will have scuffs they need to change this asap.
service is also where you go ,i have good and bad at the same place so that is not a reason to not buy a car .but will turn you off a mark .

jphanna · 05-02-2009, 11:28 PM

It sure would make sense if someone from the remaining 3 car makers, in Aust had read some of the unbelievable real life thoughts and experiences on this thread.

some of the stories here defy logic....but i suppose with the GEC they all got other stuff on thier minds, than to tidy up some of their shoddy production and service practices.

xbgs351 · 06-02-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoon

Dont believe everything the raw material suppliers tell you, I have been involved in the plastics industry for 28 years, having worked in the car industry as a supplier and many other different industries in all styles of plastics and processes from injection moulding, to blow molding to fabrication to extrusion using all types of polymers from commodity plastics to high grade engineering plastics. I have dealt with all of the suppliers from all over the world. The car manufacturers do not compromise on the polymers they use when they design vehicles, the materials are very carefully specced, whether they be a euro, jap or aussie cars and they all use the same polymers for each part of the vehicle. The cost of using a cheaper material would be negligable per part for different polymers. Yes the car manufacturers will screw the suppliers on price, but they wont deviate from a specced material to something cheaper, it just doesnt work like that, believe me.

Why in that case did the following plastic items break on a BA Falcon that I purchased new?

3 x bonnet release levers
1 x fuse panel
1 x console
1 x console rear insert

The plastic on my XD Falcon is far better than that and it was the first Falcon to incorporate plastic in large quantities.

geckoGT · 06-02-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Why in that case did the following plastic items break on a BA Falcon that I purchased new?

3 x bonnet release levers
1 x fuse panel
1 x console
1 x console rear insert

The plastic on my XD Falcon is far better than that and it was the first Falcon to incorporate plastic in large quantities.

I have to agree, I sold my ED with 330,000 km on it and the drivers seat was still original shape and the interior plastics hardly had a mark on them. Our ute at 65,000km has a drivers seat with collapsed side bolster and scratches all over the footwell kick panels, centre console and sill trims no mater how careful we are not to touch anything plastic.

joolz · 06-02-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

PPAP's can be a crock too... ive been involved with too many to know the politics....
At the end of the day as long as it meets Fords original design that's all that matters.. If that design is compromised or short cut it will be the same for final parts submission.

I guess ours are scrutinised alot more than yours. If our parts fail there will be a serious safety issue.

Bossxr8 · 06-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Ford just don't have the money to go chasing any little quality issues any more. With sales at rock bottom they just can't fix things they used to be able to afford to do. Luckily the FG was designed well from the start and quality is much better than the BA/BF, but unless a problem is quite common Ford just can't afford to fix it. If sales volumes increased they could afford to have these fixes, they would if they had an export market to get the numbers up, then the costs of R&D could be spread over a higher number of sales, reducing the cost.

vztrt · 07-02-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Why in that case did the following plastic items break on a BA Falcon that I purchased new?

3 x bonnet release levers

the bonnet release lever was the same as the AU (that's where the old B-series stock went after the update). There was more to this then just weak plastic. Installation of the bonnet release was one. Also one thing they found was people opening them from outside the car could be a cause. It was just a weird things that happened that was never picked up during testing. Also one of the reasons that it took so long to fix.

xbgs351 · 08-02-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

the bonnet release lever was the same as the AU (that's where the old B-series stock went after the update). There was more to this then just weak plastic. Installation of the bonnet release was one. Also one thing they found was people opening them from outside the car could be a cause. It was just a weird things that happened that was never picked up during testing. Also one of the reasons that it took so long to fix.

The plastic was crap. There were voids in them for a start.

500SEC · 08-02-2009, 09:57 AM

South African plants assemble most right hand drive Mercedes and BMW models destined for Australia, except for upper end models which still come from Germany. I've only heard good things about SA quality, and wouldn't put it behind Australia.

The quality of my BFII ute is acceptible for my needs, but a long way short of anything coming out of Europe or Japan. Look closely and you can see short cuts in parts quality (eg, paper corrugated boarding inside the door jam; "what were they thinking?"), design quality (eg, windscreen wipers that strike the bonnet when both are raised) and poor fit and finish in the interior (eg, the silver plastic applique is bubbling)...

But I over look these issues because it's otherwise fit for (my) purpose. I also love its simplicity, basic spec, power, economy and practicality.

I could never ever see myself steering a Honda Accord / Aurion (whatever) or the like with their 'perfect in all areas'. Backwards thinking perhaps yes... but give me an Aussie built Falcon anyday (PS new lust object is G6E turbo with cream leather)

Cheers,

Frederick (Yass Valley NSW)
2006 Falcon BFII ute
1996 Toyota Landcruiser 80 series TD
1986 Mercedes 500SEC

Bossxr8 · 08-02-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500SEC

South African plants assemble most right hand drive Mercedes and BMW models destined for Australia, except for upper end models which still come from Germany. I've only heard good things about SA quality, and wouldn't put it behind Australia.

The quality of my BFII ute is acceptible for my needs, but a long way short of anything coming out of Europe or Japan. Look closely and you can see short cuts in parts quality (eg, paper corrugated boarding inside the door jam; "what were they thinking?"), design quality (eg, windscreen wipers that strike the bonnet when both are raised) and poor fit and finish in the interior (eg, the silver plastic applique is bubbling)...

But I over look these issues because it's otherwise fit for (my) purpose. I also love its simplicity, basic spec, power, economy and practicality.

I could never ever see myself steering a Honda Accord / Aurion (whatever) or the like with their 'perfect in all areas'. Backwards thinking perhaps yes... but give me an Aussie built Falcon anyday (PS new lust object is G6E turbo with cream leather)

Cheers,

Frederick (Yass Valley NSW)
2006 Falcon BFII ute
1996 Toyota Landcruiser 80 series TD
1986 Mercedes 500SEC

Mercedes are no longer sourcing C classes from South Africa anymore due to the lower quality levels I believe, and the Sth African Focuses we get are lower quality than the Euro ones.