Sct Tuners Back On

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by flappist

Bastards.....

I paid $88,000 for a BA GT-P and then 18 months later the bastards wanted another $40k for a new Mk2.........
I bought mine legitimately from a FPV dealer and it has only ever been driven in one country....

Remind me to never shop there

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by loony888

having said all that, i for one will not buy or upgrade any sct product from anyone, ever. the farcical situation that has gone on the last few days has highlighted the selfish and unprofessional view sct have towards their customers. i will find an alternative.


paul.

That is your choice of course but bear in mind this is the fault of ( un named ) whos unethical ( and possibly criminal ) actions caused SCT to react, all be it in an excessive manner at first . through negotiation and listening to end users a fair and equitable solution has been found and if we want continued support for our small ( by world standards) market we need to work with developers not against them.
the which hunt against SCT needs to stop if we are to acheive the best results for the future, If SCT feel that they will be boycotted by australia they will not be interested in future development and we will all suffer

[RG]

Guys this is yet again turning into a rant and blame fest. Can we please keep it to constructive posts directly pertaining to what is going on with XCAL1 tuning and nothing more.

I as well as anyone understand the frustration involved by owners of XCAL1 units but the opinions, rants and blaming has been done to death. This thread is for facts, nothing more and nothing less.

[loony888]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

That is your choice of course but bear in mind this is the fault of ( un named ) whos unethical ( and possibly criminal ) actions caused SCT to react, all be it in an excessive manner at first . through negotiation and listening to end users a fair and equitable solution has been found and if we want continued support for our small ( by world standards) market we need to work with developers not against them.
the which hunt against SCT needs to stop if we are to acheive the best results for the future, If SCT feel that they will be boycotted by australia they will not be interested in future development and we will all suffer

that may be so but you're barking up the wrong tree if you think i'm going to plonk my hard earned cash on the table motivated out of concern for SCT's future here. i WILL buy elsewhere and i WILL NOT give a moments thought to SCT's future, the suggestion i should is laughable, sorry.
regardless of who was the catalyst of this mess it was SCT who made the decision to pull the plug on us, yes i know they have remedied the situation but for me at least once bitten twice shy!

paul.

[ADSXR8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Bastards.....

I paid $88,000 for a BA GT-P and then 18 months later the bastards wanted another $40k for a new Mk2.........
I bought mine legitimately from a FPV dealer and it has only ever been driven in one country....

Happened to me too and I still shop there. However with changing times, I think I got one back on Ford with the G6ET purchase. Ford FPV 8/Adam 1.

BTW, great work to Herrod Motorsport. Any chance to sponsor AFF?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Remind me to never shop there

Why? FPV don't sell Focuses

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by flappist

Bastards.....

I paid $88,000 for a BA GT-P and then 18 months later the bastards wanted another $40k for a new Mk2.........
I bought mine legitimately from a FPV dealer and it has only ever been driven in one country....

Thats Gold...

Originally Posted by loony888

i for one will not buy or upgrade any sct product from anyone, ever. the farcical situation that has gone on the last few days has highlighted the selfish and unprofessional view sct have towards their customers. i will find an alternative.


paul.

Your choice, you had your say and no longer interested in there product, so you will no longer need to post in SCT threads, best leave it for those that are looking for information.

[BENT_8]

Ok, i've been reading this all weekend and have a few points i'd like to put out there.
First of all let me say i dont own the product nor do i believe i'll ever need it but the way this has been handled stinks of rats.

First of all this SCT is a US based company, unless you've been under a rock you should know the US economy is on it's knees and all companies are looking for anyway to boost sales and stay afloat.
This new found problem just happens to rear it's ugly head as the new model comes out. Phasing out the x1, can be seen to solve the dilemma, but will at the same time also create new sales for SCT through upgrading to the x3...helps the sales figures.

Now we hear that the x1 will still have be usable for a period of time however you must get your tuner to register.
As it sits now the new Aussie dealer has no idea who currently uses the product and so rather than do the foot work themselves to find tuners to distribute their new product, they get the customer to bring the tuners to them...a fast effective way to create a large instant customer base.

And finally, if the dodgy tuners are alienated by this new scheme and can no longer rip off SCT, why do the X1 boxes need to be phased out?

All sounds $$ driven to me.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ok, i've been reading this all weekend and have a few points i'd like to put out there.
First of all let me say i dont own the product nor do i believe i'll ever need it

Then why the need to add your 2 bob's worth, there's enough dribble in this topic without adding too it..

Yes I am currently in the market for a tuning option, and so would like to read the FACTS, without having to wade through that bog of dribble.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by genebaby

Stupidest post ever.

How does that even work? You people that think that it is gold are not the sharpest tools in the drawer, but make no mistake, you are still tools. Admin should know better.....

That's right, Spoolman, Flappist and CAT600 are all tools.

A lot of people on here need to grow up a little and accept that the world does not owe them, and neither does SCT. You bought a product that will still function, but will not be further supported AFTER a phaseout period.

Genebaby, you might want to go call the Australian Government and Telstra "tools" for discontinuing CDMA....... then call over 50% of the population a "tool" because they voted the government into power!

There is nothing illegal or unethical about what has happened here.

MOVE WITH THE TIMES!

Daniel

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by CAT600

That's right, Spoolman, Flappist and CAT600 are all tools.

A lot of people on here need to grow up a little and accept that the world does not owe them, and neither does SCT. You bought a product that will still function, but will not be further supported AFTER a phaseout period.

Genebaby, you might want to go call the Australian Government and Telstra "tools" for discontinuing CDMA....... then call over 50% of the population a "tool" because they voted the government into power!

There is nothing illegal or unethical about what has happened here.

MOVE WITH THE TIMES!

Daniel

Dont forget me Daniel!!

[genebaby]

Originally Posted by CAT600

That's right, Spoolman, Flappist and CAT600 are all tools.

A lot of people on here need to grow up a little and accept that the world does not owe them, and neither does SCT. You bought a product that will still function, but will not be further supported AFTER a phaseout period.

Genebaby, you might want to go call the Australian Government and Telstra "tools" for discontinuing CDMA....... then call over 50% of the population a "tool" because they voted the government into power!

There is nothing illegal or unethical about what has happened here.

MOVE WITH THE TIMES!

Daniel

Work it out Daniel, your analogies are getting old and tired. Nobody was selling someone a CDMA phone weeks before the network went off the air, and an entire phone network is different to a little tick box being shut off on a program which would be very easy to leave alone.

The phasing out of old technology is not the issue, people just want SCT to LEAVE Xcal1 BOXES ALONE. Leave that tick so we can keep using them, even if we can't use them on newer cars. I buy a FH, I'll get a box/device that works with it, but disabling what should work until the box dies for me is not fair, never will be.

Everything is ok until we find out the phase out period. It may suit me ok once I get something else done to complete some mods I did recently. I may be ok, I may not as I may find a new mod I'd like to use on my car and if I need a re-tune after phase out, I'll be out of pocket when it doesn't have to be that way.

Let them find the guilty tuners and leave the rest to tune Xcal1 until the boxes die.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Russell

Guys this is yet again turning into a rant and blame fest. Can we please keep it to constructive posts directly pertaining to what is going on with XCAL1 tuning and nothing more.

I as well as anyone understand the frustration involved by owners of XCAL1 units but the opinions, rants and blaming has been done to death. This thread is for facts, nothing more and nothing less.

Obviously some people don't feel the need to listen to what I said. I really don't like having to repeat myself but I will this time only.

As Spoolman has said earlier on any ranting posts or the like with see the member making that post being banned for 24 hours.

This rubbish stops NOW.

[qwiksix]

Originally Posted by Jake XR6T

Ok. This is movement in the right direction. Thanks to Rob & Charlie.

Things that remain un-answered are:

a) Phase out period for XCAL1
b) Swap over arrangement from XCAL1 to XCAL3
c) Mechanism for moving existing custom tunes from XCAL1 to XCAL3

I strongly beleive that legitimate owners of XCAL1 should be provided with XCAL3 swap over at no cost, given that this phase out is being performed in these exceptional circumstances solely to assure SCT revenue stream. Also existing custom tunes on XCAL1 need a mechanism to move to XCAL3, so that they are not lost.

I also suggest that SCT products are sold with "end of life" date to ensure that this is known to the end consumer upon product purchase, rather than a nasty surprise at some random time.

Agree. Product life/end of life is a fundamental part of basic product management. To add to the above, the missing question is :
d) What is the end of support life for XCal3? When will end users (us) no longer be able to have our tuner create new tunes to load via the x-cal3?

An answer to this will prevent going though the same pain when it's time to shut down x-cal3.

qs

[4Vman]

Its funny how people are prepared quite literally to drop tens of thousands of dollars in depreciation in only a couple of years on vehicles and on top of that drop thousands of dollars on mods (to speed up that depreciation!!), but the min they're faced with the thought of having to spend money updating to newer technology (for only approx a grand mind you) after their 5 year old stuff "might" loose some of its functionality its world war 3...
In the past 72 hours we've come nearly full circle.. we've nearly recovered back to where we were before this all happened, and more importantly may achieve that very result in the end...
Maybe its time to accept this and move on.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its funny how people are prepared quite literally to drop tens of thousands of dollars in depreciation in only a couple of years on vehicles and on top of that drop thousands of dollars on mods (to speed up that depreciation!!), but the min they're faced with the thought of having to spend money updating to newer technology (for only approx a grand mind you) after their 5 year old stuff "might" loose some of its functionality its world war 3...In the past 72 hours we've come nearly full circle.. we've nearly recovered back to where we were before this all happened, and more importantly may achieve that very result in the end...
Maybe its time to accept this and move on.

Are you sure you are really Norm.........

Good points mate.

Daniel

[charlie200]

So in 2 months time can i just go to a tuner and get a custom tune done or does my box need to be registered? Im a little thrown off by all the different things that have been said.

[philstoj]

Latest news seems to be 15 months.... well 12- 15 months.

[blueoval]

I think any box you may have if its second hand needs to be registered with your tuner NOW so you avoid any lockouts. Or did I get this wrong?

[Feathers]

Hang on, who mentioned us registering our boxes?
I thought it was just the tuners that needed to register their dongles (damn that sounds wrong), in order to keep tuning the Xcal 1 units?

[Burnout]

Just read all this -

God help me!

I love passionate people! :

[charlie200]

Originally Posted by loony888

that's not the way it reads,
rob herrod has stated there will be no 90 day limit, however you need to get your box registered through a tuner within a few weeks or the dongle that has been turned on will be turned off again

This one Feathers.

[geckoGT]

Ok, I have done my research and have talked to my tuner and will now discuss my decision regarding this issue. What I am about to discuss are my ideas and beliefs, not my tuners (although he agrees with many of them). I strongly believe that we need this open forum to allow SCT and the distributors an avenue to see these ideas. The other option is we can all send the distributor and SCT emails with our ideas but I am sure they do not want to be bombarded with 1000 emails in the next week. If any mods or admin disagree with me, please let me know (and delete my post) and I will send it via email. I do not wish for my ideas to be picked to death and discussed here, if there is a question send me a PM, lets keep the thread alive.

Before I do, I want to point out some of my beliefs which will go a long way in explaining to SCT and others why I have come to the decision I have.

1. When I bought my X1 in 2005 it was new to the market that year in australia, before that I had unichip. When I bought it I did so on the understanding that it had certain features that my unichip did not, they were.
a) It had more tuning functions and offered more bang for buck than unichip.
b) It was able to swap between 3 preset custom tunes as well as stock.
c) I was able to reset the car I was removing from and have it re-tuned to my new car, I could do this 5 times.
d) There was no chronological time limit on this. In fact, based on the average person replacing their car in 2-4 yrs, times by the 5 vehicles the unit allows, this gives a theoretical lifespan of 10-20yrs, of course less should the unit physically fail.

2. I do not see that the original scrubbing of the X1 from not only support but also disabling a large proportion of their functionality as "phasing out", to me this is sabotaging its usefullness. The best analogy I have heard so far is the ECU in your car. When you buy your car you buy that ECU and a license to use the program within it. Lets look at the BA for example, when Ford brought out the BF range did they load a program in your BA stopping that ECU working as it was being "phased out"? Of course not, they just stopped releasing updates. You can still go into Ford and have your ECU re programmed with BA files, just nothing new since the last BA update that they did. The same has now happened with BF now that FG is out, there will be no further BF updates, but my car still functions and I can still have my ECU reloaded with the last BF files. I hope that makes sense. I believe that although we can not expect SCT to provide new improvements to the X1 units (they are old), we should be able to expect future loading of X1 files. I believe this should be done through SCT authorised tuners, for the life of the hardware that we own.

3 Piracy issues that SCT have had with their distributors are their problem, not the end consumers.

4 SCT acted rashly without proper consultation and have already inconvenienced consumers as well as causing a lot of ill feelings between the consumer, distributors and SCT. They should have put more careful consideration into it. This is evidenced by the fact they are now suggesting other options, they should have done this in the first place. Although it is unfortunate that there was a lot of heated discussion, noses put out of joint and threads closed on this forum, I have no doubt that those events had a large part in us getting to where we are now. I strongly believe that had we not voiced our opinion so clear and loud, SCT would not be reconsidering their stance on the matter now.

Now my suggestion for what I think is fair for all considering the points I have outlined above. Please notice I have said suggestion, not demands. There is obviously some room for movement here depending on what SCT and the distributor feel is fair, just not a lot. Obviously if I do not like the offer on the table, I will be looking elsewhere (at extra cost to me) and I am already planning for that event.

1 The complete reinstatement of tuning capabilities of X1 units using the current capabilities of the software version 2.9. Obviously there will have to be software changes so that tuners can operate under both V2.9 and latter versions on the same computer. I will leave it to the software gurus to work that out.

2 The phase out duration occur in a time frame of not shorter than 2 years, preferably longer to allow those that legitimately bought X1 this year to get reasonable life from their investment. This determination is done prior to the 2 weeks that the tuners have been given to sort themselves out and SCT make this under some form of enforceable undertaking. On this point, lets remember that those that bought this unit recently will not get the life span the earlier purchasers have under my suggestion, but they also paid half the price. By my calculations I am letting SCT off the hook by 4-14 years on average here.

3 All subsequent versions of this device are given clear advice on the expected chronological lifespan of the device if further "phasing out" is to occur.

These are my ideas of what I think is reasonable and why. I believe that I have been considerate of SCT's need to protect their intellectual property. Time for them to advise us of their decision so we can decide if it is acceptable to us. I will be doing no tuning until clear direction is given.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Herrod Motorsport

Well after a long 3 days i finally have the news you all wanted . I have been in constant discussions with Charlie and Rick from SCT and they have agreed to turn on all the dongles to all the tune shops as of now !.What we do need is if you have a tune shop that you use get them to contact Rob or Chris Herrod on 0394645100 or email [email protected] so as we can collect all the information we need as these tuners need to be registered with the SCT as of now. Previously these tuners dongles were licenced to CAPA and SCT does not have a file on who even tunes with the SCT product .All the emails that SCT sent out were from our data base and i am sure we dont have everybody .SCT have agreed to turn the dongles back on to everybody for a two week period and those dongles that are not registed will be turned off again so its real important to get them to contact us so as we can get the information to SCT.

Moving forward with X1 things will go on as it did prior to the dongles being turned off and over the next couple of weeks we will come up with a phase out program that will give you all plenty of time to get your tunes sorted out
SCT would never had done what they did if they were not sure that piracy was going .

If you have an X cal 1 we will be putting together a program avaliable from our dealers to upgrade to X cal3 .

WE are the Australian and NEW Zealand Distributors check out our web site www.sctflashtuning.com

All of your posts help send the message to SCT and i thank you all very much.
cheers Rob Herrod

Rob, thanks for the update. I have some questions.

1) When contacting our tuners, what info do we need to give them that will ensure the dongles get registered.

2) What happens to the many who haven't received this notification? How will they be contacted?

3) From your above post it seams you have made efforts to restore some commonsense by allowing partial use of X1. I say partial since it isn't reusable after a given time, contrary to how it was initially advertised. (for all you "move on and buy an X3" think about those who've only just purchased theirs!) My question to this point; how will they be fairly compensated for when their X1 is dead in a 12/24/36/whatever months?

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by Herrod Motorsport

Well after a long 3 days i finally have the news you all wanted . I have been in constant discussions with Charlie and Rick from SCT and they have agreed to turn on all the dongles to all the tune shops as of now !.What we do need is if you have a tune shop that you use get them to contact Rob or Chris Herrod on 0394645100 or email [email protected] so as we can collect all the information we need as these tuners need to be registered with the SCT as of now. Previously these tuners dongles were licenced to CAPA and SCT does not have a file on who even tunes with the SCT product. All the emails that SCT sent out were from our data base and am sure we don't have everybody.SCT have agreed to turn the dongles back on to everybody for a two week period and those dongles that are not registed will be turned off again so its real important to get them to contact us so as we can get the information to SCT.

That is the post I read. Nowhere does it mention that our boxes need to be registered. Only the tuners need register.

This is how people get confused.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by genebaby

Stupidest post ever.

How does that even work? You people that think that it is gold are not the sharpest tools in the drawer, but make no mistake, you are still tools. Admin should know better.

Chicken Flapper is lucky Ford did not disable his ECU during his last service so he needed to buy that new Mk2, like us Xcal1 owners. Hence his mythical situation means nothing to this thread, and others laugh while he flaps his wings.

What SCT are doing is no laughing matter. We've yet to hear how the phase out period works but still for many it is still not good enough depending on their situation.

You were whinging about the cost of the upgrade to an X3. All new and supersceding technology costs and old tech loses value.

The X1s still work and will continue to work and guess what, I actually own one too. The X3s are better and for $600 I might just upgrade mine.

Ford DID actually "turn off" my BA ECU, it cannot be used in a BF or FG just the model I originally bought.

I am also impressed that a moderator, albeit a club moderator would stoop to childish name calling and insulting a forum director.
That always goes down well, just ask Casper, sbutler, red_el_xr8 et al.

[charlie200]

Originally Posted by Feathers

That is the post I read. Nowhere does it mention that our boxes need to be registered. Only the tuners need register.

This is how people get confused.

Thats what i was thinking but just wanted to make sure.

[Fireblade]

I spoke to my tuning shop today and to my understanding Xcal1's will be phased out between 15-18 months time, my tuner has been in contact with all involved from friday morning and has followed and been updated regularly on the situation, now what it looks like is Xcal1 will only support up to BF1, even though BFII is supported at the moment, and from BFII onwards will have to use Xcal3 to tune the vehicle. The way I see it, if you have an FG now why go a X1 when the X3 is of comparable price to a few years ago, and is of more recent technology. I will keep using my X1 with my tuner and til he says I cant use it anymore and I have to upgrade then I will look at the different options available and I believe my tuner will too.

The crap slinging that has already been done on this and other forums has been enough to show SCT and others that we won't take this lying down, but at the same time technology advances and one day they will be past their use by date. I have an X1 and I am reasonably happy with the outcome of all of this, I have a time range to work within and if my car isnt finished in regards to mods then I have no choice but to update but I have now been given reasonable warning which I think is all anybody wanted. I understand that technology becomes obselete but to be told without any warning at all that my product was useless is not good enough, we all new CDMA phones were being phased out 18-24 months prior not one day wake up and find you couldnt connect to the network and that was it your phone was a brick!

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

I spoke to my tuning shop today and to my understanding Xcal1's will be phased out between 15-18 months time, my tuner has been in contact with all involved from friday morning and has followed and been updated regularly on the situation, now what it looks like is Xcal1 will only support up to BF1, even though BFII is supported at the moment, and from BFII onwards will have to use Xcal3 to tune the vehicle. The way I see it, if you have an FG now why go a X1 when the X3 is of comparable price to a few years ago, and is of more recent technology. I will keep using my X1 with my tuner and til he says I cant use it anymore and I have to upgrade then I will look at the different options available and I believe my tuner will too.

The crap slinging that has already been done on this and other forums has been enough to show SCT and others that we won't take this lying down, but at the same time technology advances and one day they will be past their use by date. I have an X1 and I am reasonably happy with the outcome of all of this, I have a time range to work within and if my car isnt finished in regards to mods then I have no choice but to update but I have now been given reasonable warning which I think is all anybody wanted. I understand that technology becomes obselete but to be told without any warning at all that my product was useless is not good enough, we all new CDMA phones were being phased out 18-24 months prior not one day wake up and find you couldnt connect to the network and that was it your phone was a brick!

This is pretty much what I have been advised by the Tuner I use. He likewise has been in contact with Herrods, SCT etc..

[timmy1300000]

hmmmm i just read over it all
im glad they ditched the 90 day thing cause i did want to continue modding my car but dont think i would have the funds within that time for the tune which means the box would have been totally useless. so even though the phase out time might be only a year or 2 thats much better than 90 days

i really do think a reasonable trade in price for the x1 to x3 should be around the 300-500 mark and just a run on the dyno to see everything is running
smooth.

but heres my questions
have they figured out the trade in prices or is there even going to be one?
is the x3 deffinatly going to work on the au's?
is the x3 locked to one car?