T6 Territory faster then Typhoon - Page 2

AnthonyQLD · 10-02-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADNC_8

more power plus AWD for the phoon then

Thats would be a nice car

ClevlndStemer · 10-02-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulvdb

The Turbo Tezza only has 480nm so how will the Typhoon get hosed?

it won't...simple

ADSXR8 · 10-02-2006, 08:14 PM

Well, at least this thread has got people posting.

My opinion, not in this lifetime.

Does a n/a Territory hose a Falcon n/a because of its AWD. Nope.

You can get a 182/190kw Falcon over a quarter, stop it, boil the jug, make a cup of tea before the AWD 182/190kw Territory make the quarter mile.

I dont think a X5 (4.4, 4.6 or 4.8), ML55 or even a Porche AWD covers a quarter in sub 14.

MrSparkle · 10-02-2006, 08:18 PM

... but is it quicker than the twin turbo HFV6 1200hp in the VE?

slipper · 10-02-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

The F6 has less power and more weight and more drag then the R8 Clubbie and the F6 is faster, am I right..... there could be a chance that the Terri may do the 1/4 quicker then the F6 due to AWD being quicker of the line.

Typhoon has more torque and lower gearing, both of which win races.
WRT the AWD thing, this is the same argument you get from WRX owners before you spank them at the strip:
"My car has AWD, so I don't have to worry about wheelspin"
That is true, but the RWD car is not concerned with wheelspin beyond the 60" mark either (unless the driver is a total wombat).

phat_stak_tipa · 10-02-2006, 08:41 PM

Hmmmm all very unlikely that it will be quicker than the phoon.... how high up is this guy..... and why would he tell u....unless he wanted u to spill your guts on a forum and get people talking........ or hes is a goose...Hmmmmmmm think about that 1 for a minute....

Psycho Chicken · 10-02-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

... but is it quicker than the twin turbo HFV6 1200hp in the VE?

Yeah, but it's got no hope of catching the twin supercharged BJ GT-HO.

Citric GT · 10-02-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slipper

Typhoon has more torque and lower gearing, both of which win races.

Nope. Terri has lower gearing.

davester · 10-02-2006, 10:42 PM

Can confirm...Terri Turbo faster than F6

at Fraser Island

svo347 · 10-02-2006, 10:50 PM

cough cough errr Bull$h%$ cough cough

Casper · 10-02-2006, 10:50 PM

Well, just to stir this up a bit.. I do have knowledge of where the alledged source of this information comes from and who was discussing it.

Personally, not being overly wrapped up in the Terri or the F6 it has a minimum impacto on me and I certainly have no bias or preference either way.

All I will say is that the Names involved, while not making it a certainty by a long shot, carry enough creedence with me for me to reserve an opinion on this and not to dismiss it outright. In fact, I would be very curious to find out the results as the people involved in this rumour certainly have some credability.

LUXO_8 · 10-02-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davester

Can confirm...Terri Turbo faster than F6

at Fraser Island

ah what a load of crap. proof or we will not believe it...period
getting sick of the "me mates brothers best friend who works at ford" threads..... if you dont know something, dont make up random crap and say it came from ford.....

flappist · 10-02-2006, 10:53 PM

Well I just thought of the closest thing to a test that could has already happened.

HSV Coupe 4 vs Monaro CV8 (or HSV GTO LS1)......

Coupe 4 took the silver medal........

csv8 · 10-02-2006, 10:54 PM

Porsche Cayenne is turbo, 4wd, it flies !!!

needfordspeed · 10-02-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADNC_8

ah what a load of crap. proof or we will not believe it...period
getting sick of the "me mates brothers best friend who works at ford" threads..... if you dont know something, dont make up random crap and say it came from ford.....

I think he was only joking mate, I mean the whole thread is a joke right?

Take a chill pill!

HLC · 10-02-2006, 10:59 PM

slipper · 10-02-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Nope. Terri has lower gearing.

I concede that point.
I forgot about the low AWD diff ratio (3.46 vs 2.73). Taking tyre sizes into account, the 18" Terri has ~15% lower gearing. Think that will overcome ~15% more kerb weight AND the better aero and less driveline losses of the F6? I don't, because there is still the matter of 15% better torque output in the latter.

flappist · 10-02-2006, 11:08 PM

Ah yes, it all makes sense now......

The NA Terri is very close to the NA XR6 (towing a caravan) so the turbo would be that much better.

There must be a lot of people weeing themselves at Ford & FPV (well the ones with internet access anyway)......

Casper · 10-02-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Ah yes, it all makes sense now......

The NA Terri is very close to the NA XR6 (towing a caravan) so the turbo would be that much better.

There must be a lot of people weeing themselves at Ford & FPV (well the ones with internet access anyway)......

Settle down a bit guys. Jabba said it was a rumour, he knows it sounds unbelievable. Hell, I find it hare to believe myself BUT I do know where the info came from and, if it were me or any of you in the same position to overhear it, I'm betting everyone of you would have posted it too.

Its an interesting dilemma actually. Fact or fiction.. lets play Devils advocate. What shoudl Ford do IF this is actually true? It would be a hell of a bugger for them wouldnt it? Surely the T6 would have to be detuned to stop it happening?

stiddy · 10-02-2006, 11:16 PM

the terri has one thing the phoon dosent.. TRACTION, i put money down the territory is atleast first to the half track marker lol..

4Vman · 10-02-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Settle down a bit guys. Jabba said it was a rumour, he knows it sounds unbelievable. Hell, I find it hare to believe myself BUT I do know where the info came from and, if it were me or any of you in the same position to overhear it, I'm betting everyone of you would have posted it too.

Its an interesting dilemma actually. Fact or fiction.. lets play Devils advocate. What shoudl Ford do IF this is actually true? It would be a hell of a bugger for them wouldnt it? Surely the T6 would have to be detuned to stop it happening?

If it is true they're going to have to re write the laws of physics!

chevypower · 10-02-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

its not power that gets it moving it is TORQUE!! 550nm of it

Generally speaking, Torque affects driveability and performance, but fast acceleration is mainly due to power (kws) even across the whole rev range, it's the kws - haven't seen too many big diesels win drag races from having loads of torque.

If the Territory turbo has 4.11 ratio final drive, and the XR6 Turbo has 3.46:1 - i would suspect the XR6 to still be quicker in acceleration, but I could understand IF the Territory beats it, at least off the line

WASP · 10-02-2006, 11:27 PM

I wont go as far as saying it's totally impossible, but I will say I'll believe it when I see it.

johnydep · 10-02-2006, 11:34 PM

The 4 speed auto'd SX AWD Territory had 4:11 diff ratio.
The 6 speed auto SY AWD has a 3.46 ratio.

http://www.ford.com.au/about/newsroo...20050817-3.asp

Is the T6 a manual? The 6 speed auto has a great take off first gear.

4Vman · 10-02-2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Generally speaking, Torque affects driveability and performance, but fast acceleration is mainly due to power (kws) even across the whole rev range, it's the kws - haven't seen too many big diesels win drag races from having loads of torque.

If the Territory turbo has 4.11 ratio final drive, and the XR6 Turbo has 3.46:1 - i would suspect the XR6 to still be quicker in acceleration, but I could understand IF the Territory beats it, at least off the line

Dont forget the respective rolling diameter of the tyres fitted to the terri is larger than that of the XR6T which would counter the lower diff ratio.

AnthonyQLD · 11-02-2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Porsche Cayenne is turbo, 4wd, it flies !!!

They are fast for there weight 2,355 kg

Cayenne S: 4.5L na V8 250kw & 420Nm at 2,500 - 5,500rpm
0-100kmh in 6.8secs

Cayenne Turbo: 4.5L TT V8 331Kw & 620Nm at 2,250 - 4,750rpm
0-100kmh 5.6secs

Cayenne Turbo S: 4.5L TT V8 383Kw & 720Nm at 2,750 - 3,750rpm
0-100kmh 5.2secs

flappist · 11-02-2006, 12:54 AM

A little bit of logic.

Specific example is Terri Turbo VS XR6T, both 6 speed autos

The Terri has more traction due to its AWD but has significantly more weight.
On the 400m a 6T will not really gain full traction for the first 60 ft or so.
For the sake of this arguement let the Terri have full traction.
The 6T has a proven record of about an average 2.2 60' and 13.9 400m
From the 60' point both have traction and similar torque & tractive force.
The 6T is at least 400kg lighter (21%) and has a much lower cross section.
Once full traction has been achieved the 6T will out accellerate the Terri due to its much greater power to weight ratio, lower transmission losses and lower air resistance.

How quick does the Terri need to do its 60' to beat the 6T to the other end in that as soon as traction is achieved the 6T is quicker?

2.0? 1.8? 1.5? 1.0? 0.8? ..........

An auto F6 has a proven record of 13.3 400m
My manual F6 (BA) has a proven record of 13.8.....

In my humble opinion it does not add up, much as the BA and F6 haters would like it to........

Racecraft · 11-02-2006, 01:17 AM

I could see a it getting 'close' to the high 13 of the F6.. I saw one of those BMW X5's at Willowbank do a low 14 second pass.. Now thats a 2300kg 265kw/500Nm spec aerodynamic brick...

I guess we will have to wait and see

Anyone know the torque to go with the 245 of the Terri?

XRated · 11-02-2006, 01:21 AM

Just put the AWD into the Typhoon and shed some weight...

Steffo · 11-02-2006, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Generally speaking, Torque affects driveability and performance, but fast acceleration is mainly due to power (kws) even across the whole rev range, it's the kws - haven't seen too many big diesels win drag races from having loads of torque.

If the Territory turbo has 4.11 ratio final drive, and the XR6 Turbo has 3.46:1 - i would suspect the XR6 to still be quicker in acceleration, but I could understand IF the Territory beats it, at least off the line

It's the power curve. Not the kilowatt's alone. It takes both.

Diesel's aren't very fast because their power curves are crap. The torque curves may be excellent, but the power all comes on at pretty much max revs, and then you have to change gears.

Jeremy Clarkson described it perfectly when he was driving the Jaguar S-Type Diesel around the Nurburgring on Top Gear...

Saying something like "It doesn't FEEL like it has 206bhp... the problem with it being a diesel is that all the power comes at the end of the rev range, right up close to redline..." and then he was describing it further... "nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing... ooooh 206bhp!!!... change gears... nothing nothing nothing..."

Typhoon has an ultra flat torque curve, 550Nm from 2000 to 4250rpm and no less then 440Nm anywhere in the rev range (idle to 6000rpm cut). But that torque curve combined with its power curve is what makes it fast.

As for a 245kW Territory being faster then a Typhoon. A rumour is all that it can be. Change the 245 to 445kW and I'd believe it.