Is this a banned/blocked word?

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Look, Swanny - yes a damned good valid point with bootlids jammed shut.

Remember though the most obvious thing, the 'last' cars boot of that pileup will not be jammed!

This is my NSW experience where folks have offered me theirs to place, or placed it off their own bat having stopped at the scene.

AND if we mandated like Africa and Europe the item, then someone else will usually provide it if required.

More often than not, after the first accident, and then secondary collision (these happen so quick there's no time to place warnings) other drivers have slowed to avoid the 'obstacle', which flows down the line to create a traffic jam. I can imagine throwing a family's luggage left, right and centre from the boot, on the side of the Pacific Highway, trying to ascertain if they actually had a three angled device! (mandatory, or not!)

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by JC

Casper - nice try!

Keepleft - good response.

The thing about the bananas is that they are used AFTER an accident. How did the accident happen? Driver inattention or inability. Cars don't crash. Drivers crash cars.

Absolutely. My furthering of the device is only one small but a very important step in the scheme of things 'to-change'. I want them mandated and that *will* happen *somewhere* in Australia with time.

I
I think Casper's point is it would be better to train people so that less accidents and breakdowns occur - breakdowns are usually caused by poor maintenance. Keepleft's point is that after said accident, you should try to stop the accident getting bigger. So I believe we have a stalemate.

Not so much a stalemate, but each argument is vital, correct, and co-dependent with each other.


In the face of rising road tolls, I would like to know the stats on how many deaths are attributed to "secondary" impacts - ie people slamming into an accident that already happened causing death.

Remember, 'death' is not the only parameter, greater cost benefit analysis occurs when we target a reduction in insurance payouts and injury related trauma costs.


I know there was at least one of these over Christmas (though it was fixing a puncture, IIRC), but in the overall scheme of things, I doubt the numbers would be very high, so would the use of bananas really reduce this small number significantly? Probably not.

Actually yes, we get this a lot. We've had folks killed when asleep in their car waiting for help, a car impacts the rear and presto. A 3-sided device will make noise enough to awaken a dozy driver. REM at 100km/h its 28 metres per second, add a four second microsleep and thats 112 metres that such a driver is out of control, if you hit the ИИИИИИИИ it will waken such folks.

NSW has over 120 thousand crashes each year, most do not, naturally result in death. Of these rear-end crashes are common. Rememebr each crash can result in another. And when it is a single or two vehicle crash, using the ИИИИИИИИ can aid traffic in getting around and on their way.



Pedestrians: We now teach in our driver manuals that these Scruby type 'wear a reflective safety vest or shirt when on scene of a crash or breakdown, if available'. See 99% of the Aussie handbooks and you'll see just that.

Ask someone with Photoshop to create a banana then! It'll get the coppers off their donuts, yes?

[XRated]

I find ringworms quite interesting! Just hope I never experience them first hand!!

[Keepleft]

[QUOTE=swanny]More often than not, after the first accident, and then secondary collision (these happen so quick there's no time to place warnings)

Which is why I've made it clear in the handbooks as point TWO, "To activate the vehicles hazard-warning lights'. For that primary reason.

other drivers have slowed to avoid the 'obstacle', which flows down the line to create a traffic jam.

Yes, of course, but it is not always the case, particularly on 'longer trips'. Each crash is multifactoral and each scene has particular dynamics. Remember too, here in your example, we still place the devices back, sometimes, as once we get a lane clear - traffic then speeds up a bit whilst we still have cars blocking a lane, the ИИИИИИИИ serves to keep in that immediate time a cautionary atmosphere, and as traffic passes by it continues to serve as warning to new vehicles on scene.

This is particularly so where crash investigation police are still on scene for hours.


can imagine throwing a family's luggage left, right and centre from the boot, on the side of the Pacific Highway,

WHICH is why Mercedes Benz, VW and Audi put theirs under the boot lid! Clever those fast nations cars! Most Euro specced cars have spots kept aside for the purpose. This is the same argument really as to where to properly place a fire extinguisher.

trying to ascertain if they actually had a three angled device! (mandatory, or not!)

If its mandatory, it *should* be there. If the owner doesn't know what she has in the boot, one would perhaps question their ability or right to hold a license?[/QUOTE]

I am not disagreeing with Casper or anyone else about training, if you take the time to see what is happening, you will note things and practical defensive driving measures are being undertaken. It just takes time, too much time, but time nonetheless.

[M14A-Mclaren]

Is keepleft a salesman for these 3 sided objects?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by M14A-Mclaren

Is keepleft a salesman for these 3 sided objects?

NOT ON YOUR LIFE. See prior thread/s.

NB - I am a chap that wants German quality lane discipline and speed allowance, but will resist tooth and nail ANY campaign to raise our intercity freeway limits, or derestriction allowance,- till a few things are done.

This topic is one small but important aspect. Mods should, allow 'the word' once again.

[Ghiadude]

i find this thread both insightfull and hillarious...

[parawolf]

*sigh* someone is trying to make a difference, and all others can do is bag the crap out of them.

So glad I don't own a car, and don't ride my push bike on the road any more...

[Laminge]

Thread Moved

And aye it was me, I will add other words to the banned list like Harrold, and unpopular surname like scruby in the future!

Great read, great laugh!

[merlin]

This thread is hilarious, you guys are such a bunch of ИИИИИИИИs! :hihi:

[jmc-007]

Seriously man you need to take a chill pill and stop trying to sell us ИИИИИИИИs :P

How about you advocate to the stupid govt. about better roads and driver training. or have proceeds from every ИИИИИИИИ sold goes towards training better drivers.

Instead of fixing the root cause you try and be a night in shining amour.

What’s a ИИИИИИИИ going to do when your on the freeway. seriously that’s why they have the Traffic cameras for.


:
:

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by jmc-007

How about you advocate to the stupid govt. about better roads and driver training. or have proceeds from every ИИИИИИИИ sold goes towards training better drivers.

Instead of fixing the root cause you try and be a night in shining amour.

What’s a ИИИИИИИИ going to do when your on the freeway. seriously that’s why they have the Traffic cameras for.


:
:

Good point mate, if say roads were improved under pressure by the government, and further driver education was enforced, there would be less likelihood of an accident happening in the 1st place ands hence the use of the ИИИИИИИИs

I think what Keepleft is trying to achieve is ok but the root of the problem is where you start

[LUXO_8]

just as an idea, if you want us all to have these warning tri-bananas, get onto the government and make them give them to everyone......for free......

there is no way in hell i am going to be paying $40 odd for something that i will never use....... and when it is used (ie at an accident scene ) i can assure you i wouldnt want to have to hang around all day just so i could retrieve the bloody thing when the acco is cleared.....

free or not at all............

[parawolf]

Everyone else who attempts to make other suggestions for "keepleft" to do... Why don't you get off your sorry backsides and do something about it yourself?

Why? well the usual response comes done to the idea of self importance, but it is never phrased like that.

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by parawolf

Everyone else who attempts to make other suggestions for "keepleft" to do... Why don't you get off your sorry backsides and do something about it yourself?

Why? well the usual response comes done to the idea of self importance, but it is never phrased like that.

well, if you had any idea, he is ( or says he is) a motoring advocate. so his opinion would be far far more greatly recieved by the govt i would believe than you or i.........

this is why people are having "suggestions" for what he should do.....

[merlin]

I have to carry witches hats (collapsable versions) in my work car and a reflective safety vest as per my companies policy. I have had need to use them before and so have now put them in my private car as well - BUT having said that, if work didnt give me all this stuff for free there is no way I would be buying it out of my own pocket.

[MYVYSS]

LOL Great thread...so much LOL.....However...I drive a Holden so have no need for a banana as the word breakdown is not in the Holden drivers vocabulary.

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by MYVYSS

LOL Great thread...so much LOL.....However...I drive a Holden so have no need for a banana as the word breakdown is not in the Holden drivers vocabulary.

hahahaha this thread just got a whole lot funnier all of a sudden :1syellow1

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Yes, yes, yes....

Need I say more.. people are basically sick of it!!

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Agreed, people don't give a rats about safety matters, they need to however and to overcome their lack of driver training and ignorance.

Really? The start advocating mandatory driver training. The bloody tri-banana’s is NOT driver training.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Sure, but it is my Sig for 'reasons'.

So? I’m not picking on your sig. But I am saying your constant droning on about safety ИИИИИИИИs is annoying as hell.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

So, a device that costs $20 - 50 that is known in the outside world, mostly,-that has resulted in *mandatory requirement* as it is a cost beneficial life-saver, is an item that reduces insurance payouts owing a reduction in crashes of a secondary nature, an item that is usually placed by the vehicle owner or road user on scene, according to you is a waste of money.

“as it is a cost beneficial life-saver, is an item that reduces insurance payouts owing a reduction in crashes of a secondary nature”
Prove it. You have droned on and on and on about it but shown no evidence. Oh, and if you start just rattling off statistics I’ll hammer them too. Fact is that anyone can make any statistic for any reason. Don’t believe me? I can actually make a solid statistical base to show that since speed cameras have come into operation the deaths on Victorian roads have actually increased.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

I am not in the slightest surprised.

Well at least you have one thing worked out.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

More ignorance.

Really? You assume a hell of a lot there sparky.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Bright? A 21 watt amber flasher bright??

yes… which is actually 21 watts more than a reflective ИИИИИИИИ that, if not placed perfectly straight will have SFA reflection… Yes, I have seen these ИИИИИИИИs and if placed on an angle their effectiveness is dramatically reduced.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Your 21 watt hazards Casper are not seen around bends, over hills, more than 80 metres back in fog or heavy rain, and using a DEVICE is better than merely having people waving at high-speed traffic using their hands and arms, particularly on the open road. Hell, owing other traffic, not even on straight roads are hazards enough!

This is true… but I’ll tell you now that a car approaching a hill that has no visable problem and see’s a little tri-banana sitting on the ground is going to take almost zero evasive action until the SEE an issue, in which case its too late. The tri-banana would do almost no good in the vast majority of cases in this circumstance anyhow. Far more effective would be if someone holding a red flare or even a torch was standing up the road waving down traffic. Most drivers would react to that far more readily than a stationary tri-banana sitting on the road. Of course this may not be possible if they are trapped in the car bleeding to death… but I don’t see a tri-banana jumping out of the boot and jumping down the road by itself either.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

As is often the case, so here you advocate NOTHING to alert approaching traffic, well done dicko, now think of crash scene scenarios. Not all crashes Casper happen on dark or daylight straight lengths of road with visibility of 700 metres.

No, not at all. I think that anything could be better than nothing but I’m trying to show you that the constant droning on and repetitive ramble about tri-banana’s is as annoying as hell and, in their own right, the tri-banana’s effectiveness is extremely limited.
Oh, and if you call me “dicko” again.. or insult me in any other way by name calling, I’ll ban your ИИИИing ИИИИ for so long the next time you get on here people will be flying hovercars… understand that DICKO???? I never stooped to name calling. If you don’t like someone shoving your tri-banana back down your throat then ИИИИ off.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

You completely miss the points.

No, I’m not that stupid (heres a news flash, you are not the intellectual you think you are.. there are a lot of intelligent people on this site). I think you missed it actually. If an accident is that bad… who the hell is going to place the tri-banana on the road? The next person to find the crash? Oh no, they just hit it too because then never had a tri-banana to warn them it’s ahead. If they didn’t hit you then they probably had enough time to react anyhow hence removing the main goal of the safety ИИИИИИИИ. See the irony?

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Actually, we do mention the items in our manuals more often AND Ford do supply them, one thing at a time Casper:

Then choose something that is more practical.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

or a jack that isnt going to drop a car on your foot when you change tyres.

Speak to Standards Australia, not me about this.

How about checking tyre pressures to decrease blowouts or the fact that if its raining a car is not going to have the same dynamics as it does in the wet.

I know all this AND I try to get exactly that sort of thing into our driver training manuals, sadly, if I submit such text, it will often be 'softened' for legal 'liability' reasons, and to not encourage the 'speed' word.

Proactive stuff like that will save a lot more money and lives than a bloody tri-banana-angle.

Casper, BECAUSE the ONLY time AUSTRALIAN drivers have had experience with these warning devices, is when the've typically been placed by truck drivers, right?.

The knuckle draggers, who are not the nations IQ collective, get it into their meat heads over time that the items are manure,- as they pass them by over the years, this forms 'opinion'. WHEN it comes to the Australian Standard, AS IT EXISTS, and as MOST OFTEN USED, I will agree, 'they' are not that good.

I do NOT agree however, when it is the world-standard product such as the Ford item I advocate, simply because it outperforms the design adopted by some drunken Aussie QLD fool years ago who was ignorant enough to adopt the hopeless US version!

I hate the fact this countries 'experts' keep giving us second best. When I am used to 'the best' and see 'it' in operation overseas.

My SIG on the matter is to purely prompt, and my verse is solidly world experienced. I cant tell you how many times over the eyars I've stopped at scenes, and having time, placed the units when I want, or more the point need that approaching traffic to slow down.

It is the same principle Caper used in the Emergency services, lights are only PART of the answer and sometimes we use other devices ahead of the scene. If any member of an emergency service thinks for one moment that ONLY using flashers is the right thing to do (and yes, it can be), IF and where the circumstance is a bendy road or similar AND as a result someone collects the scene and is hurt of killed, then make no mistake, liability for inaction, or inappropriate action can occur.

One of my later examples was a woman in a Maxima with three whaaaaa-ing kids in the back, she had collected a tradesmans ute in the right lane of the F3, became immobilised in that right lane of the F3 in the pouring rain, and blokes ute went to shoulder under its own power.

Nurse with me attends injury but the risk of collision (secondary impact) was clear, cars were skidding and near missing this immobilsed car. Yes, the hazards were on, AND this is one of the KEY steps I outline in each jurisdictional driver manual, *as a must*. I take the ИИИИИИИИ back 150 - 180 running steps and place it to the 0.5 metre shoulder.

This is what they are designed for, "ADVANCED" of scene alert INTENDED to SUPPLEMENT existing flashers, BUT CAN do the job when they are knocked out, WHILST we wait the arrival of police and emergency services.

The effect was obvious and gave people on scene 'some comfort or rather reassurance' as traffic now approached much slower.

I have gone through this over and over and over these few years and became a convert. But I had an issue of low quality units creating problems, they'd blow over or out of alignment putting the scene at risk, and the performing properties were simply rubbish. That made me target 'standards'.

People would often buy garbage and this is why my crusade, ONE - to prompt in education via the handbooks AND in forums, THE OTHER - to do my bit to knock off from the market crap units so folk will get the best possible.


My Sig is changed for now to 'device'.

I’ll just take a small snippet from this.. it sums it up well… I have gone through this over and over and over
NO KIDDING SPARKY… get over it.. we all are.

You do realize this is an enthusiast forum right? Are you a car enthusiast?
Tell me:
What car do you drive?
What mods have you done?
Have you raced it?
Have you dyno’d it?
What colour is it? (factory color)
Body kit?
Mags?
What are you future plans for it?

I’m betting you are not an enthusiast at all, you are someone who has a fixation on something and want to make every person in the world aware of it. Right or wrong it makes you a fanatic and fanatics are bad. You are no better than Harold (I can run over joggers but you cant) Scruby or his cronies.

If you want to let people know in the appropriate manner (in an appropriate thread) that’s fine and actively participating members opinions are widely respected. If Russ, Laminge, XA-Coupe or one of about 200+ other members suddenly said how great a ИИИИИИИИ is a lot of us would listen. Why? Because they are enthusiasts who we can instantly relate to. They are like us.
I’m afraid you are not. You have never even said what sort of car you drive. Never participated in an AFF event, never attended a social gathering, never stated and desires or interest in cars.
Most people here are only interested in road laws so we know how close to the edge we can fly, the real passion is cars and Fords. You don’t have that, you seem to have a passion for laws and UN charters and statistics and safety tri-banana’s, not cars. That’s why you are never going to be taken serious by most of the site, you are a square peg in a rounds hole here. You show no interest in what is actually the basis for this whole forum.

[LUXO_8]

damn.......

[Envious]

should just 'creatively relocate' some witches hats
or some flares from your local marina...:P j/k

[Sourbastard]

Im betting he has done all sorts of mods to his Beige Volvo Stationwagon. Installation of 18 extra airbags. Embedded Rhinestones for extra visibility. Ejection seats. Door skins replaced with 440 Guage 3 inch stainless steel and held on with battleship rivets. He has cut the brim off his driving hat(Staw Hat) for weight saving. 40 point racing harness with toupe restainer(A loose toupe inside the car in an accident can take young lives). Mouth Guard. oh. And a safety device of triangular nature.

Future Mods.
Amphibious Mode
Dogs Balls Red paint scheme
ECG to ensure driver hasnt bored himself to death. If it goes off it automatically sends berevement emails to the next of kin.

[Dazza XLT]

Originally Posted by svo347

Personally i like the idea of Flares....
Lets get some of those arc'n...

Bring on the Flares! :

[MAD]

I dont know about anyone else but I dont particularly like the idea of being outside my vehicle if I am broken down, or just had an accident on a freeway. Stuff that, I'll keep the protection of 2/3's of a car and about 700kg of metal behind my position.

Other than that the bananas are not such bad things, they do help to keep traffic flowing a tiny bit around a broken down truck, and on a bend could be good.

Still training is of utmost importance in AUS, nearly all drivers have the "its a right" attitude, and until this is gone, other drivers on the road will just be in the way of these drivers, you know like if the bmw next to you cant change lanes, its your fault for owning a car and driving at the same time/location as them.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Make sure it complies to European standards 1044d985.32sdf44poundsign5153.141 dash WGAF.

Wonderful regulations too......there is a recommended distance to place the offending equilateral thingy behind the vehicle-my last one was run over!!!!

They were lucky to avoid a puncture from the broken bits which could have caused them a mischief!

[Dazza XLT]

I hit a roo in my Falcon Ute about 6 months ago (See Avatar, it had 7000k on the clock) and it was after dark, i had my two guard indicators, and my tail light indicators flashing (as they were the only ones remaining that worked, thanks Skip).... and i sat myself about 10mt away from the vehicle, which i thought would be far enough if anyone came up and collected the ИИИИ of the ute or something stupid like that.
It all depends on the circumstances, i was able to step out of the vehicle, and walk away from the scene! I reckon that was the safest move for me.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by rexrox

Whilst I've found the banging on about tri-F-king-angles tiresome in the max, and whilst these thingies are as useful left handed scissors to most people for most of their existence.

I have to take to task the attack on a rule complying member who may or may not own a modified Ford vehicle (unsubstantiated).

If the focus is truly on Ford Cars and Car enthusiast. how can Keeplefts prattle on about tri-F-king-angle be any more or less annoying, valuable or relevant to a car enthusiast than gems such as [B]In this thread you will post quality alternative bands nobody has heard of [/B].

And whilst Keeplefts idea's are his own, and in some cases ideas I do not subscribe to them, they were at least in some tiny way related to our vehicles or use of them. Remove the tri-F-king-angles and there was some well thought out proposals.

banging on about Taxis not even cracking a 14, the universal use of shims, look at my ultrasounds, BBQ fuel for everything, BA bumpers on old GLis, hand painted Tickord logos, all the mark of an enthusiast.

I will see how long this post stands as a mark to how receptive and open-minded the site is.
Is the pillorying of diverse opinion a selective exercise and if so on what basis?

pp: red_el_xr8

Well said, keep up the fight Keep Left! ing_sm

[KEV EB XR8]

And i thought he was going to be a site sponser, KEEPLEFT


Above post even sounds like our old mate red

This thread about ИИИИИИИИs has gone way off ИИИИing topic!

[XLS99 Ute man]

ИИИИИИИИ