VFacts July 2020

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Completely false. You have the wrong idea. Can't go into detail obviously though. It's dangerous making assumptions on seeing things without knowing what the real details are.

The Ranger is the second most profitable model Ford sell, and i believe it's the highest profit per unit. No way in hell they throw that away. That would be madness. The F series and Ranger are the 2 company pillars. They speak of it all the time.

I can almost guarantee that the Americans will get hold of and review the current T6 program
and realise that including RHD is a significant cost and a ton of wasted resources for relatively
low returns compared to all the LHD markets that they can keep servicing with a US design.

And no, I can't see them putting anything like the massive effort the local team does to get everything
right across every Ranger for every market, all the little details that you into good design for all markets,
not just domestic US design made to fit everywhere else.

[russellw]

The graphical stats for July have been uploaded to the Tech portal.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by au2000

****, hilux dropped 12% and was still only 157 vehicles behind the Ranger....

be interesting to see if that drop is based on lack of runout models remaining in stock as rumoured.

2 Ford Ranger 3104 -2.0%
3 Toyota HiLux 2947 -12.3%

Hilux stock is exhausted. Theres very few of anything left and Toyota have been holding back release of new models till they build stock. Some dealers will get new cars around mid August but there is a sales Embargo till the end of the month.


I'm bemused as to why Toyota haven't just delivered stock from the port to dealers and just sold them rather then making people wait another month, they could have had cars delivered now and money in the bank. They seem to be having the same issue with the new model Yaris.


On another note it seems RAV4 orders are close to being caught up. Its only taken a year to get them into line!

Dealing with KIA has been difficult Brent , Sunshine Ford have next to nothing left on it's lot...

[XR Martin]

I was told the Toyota dealers asked for the new model to be held back as they were overstocked with the old model.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I can almost guarantee that the Americans will get hold of and review the current T6 program
and realise that including RHD is a significant cost and a ton of wasted resources for relatively
low returns compared to all the LHD markets that they can keep servicing with a US design.

And no, I can't see them putting anything like the massive effort the local team does to get everything
right across every Ranger for every market, all the little details that you into good design for all markets,
not just domestic US design made to fit everywhere else.

They sell a heap of Rangers in RHD. Ford are not GM trying to sell RHD pick ups in 3 countries. Not sure on the total number out of the 180 countries that Ranger sells in that are RHD but it's more than you'd imagine. The biggest Rest of World markets are RHD, Thailand and Australia. Ditching RHD would instantly kill off their biggest Ranger markets outside the US. Not going to happen.

What is it with people fascination with killing off Ford Australia? It's like a sport here.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They sell a heap of Rangers in RHD. Ford are not GM trying to sell RHD pick ups in 3 countries. Not sure on the total number out of the 180 countries that Ranger sells in that are RHD but it's more than you'd imagine. The biggest Rest of World markets are RHD, Thailand and Australia. Ditching RHD would instantly kill off their biggest Ranger markets outside the US. Not going to happen.

What is it with people fascination with killing off Ford Australia? It's like a sport here.

I agree, it’s a favourite pastime 👎

All rumour and BS 👎

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They sell a heap of Rangers in RHD. Ford are not GM trying to sell RHD pick ups in 3 countries. Not sure on the total number out of the 180 countries that Ranger sells in that are RHD but it's more than you'd imagine. The biggest Rest of World markets are RHD, Thailand and Australia. Ditching RHD would instantly kill off their biggest Ranger markets outside the US. Not going to happen.

What is it with people fascination with killing off Ford Australia? It's like a sport here.

I'm not talking imminent closure, I'm saying long term beyond 2028 it's hard to see

Do you know how much profit our region made last year?

I'm having difficulty finding out because Ford keeps moving Australia around like we don't belong anymore.
All those people out of work once the work starts moving back to America, they're already white Anting
the project and looking to claw back whatever work Dearborn can. Powertrain is feeling it now but
I bet the yanks will want a bigger say in designing their regions models.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They sell a heap of Rangers in RHD. Ford are not GM trying to sell RHD pick ups in 3 countries. Not sure on the total number out of the 180 countries that Ranger sells in that are RHD but it's more than you'd imagine. The biggest Rest of World markets are RHD, Thailand and Australia. Ditching RHD would instantly kill off their biggest Ranger markets outside the US. Not going to happen.

What is it with people fascination with killing off Ford Australia? It's like a sport here.

We were inspired by the ABC and Mitsubishi.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

I agree, it’s a favourite pastime 👎

All rumour and BS 👎

Even with the higher profits of what, 250k of Ranger and 30k of Everest in the region,
Ford Asia Pacific makes no profit in 2019, neither does Africa or South America
even though the latter two also have their own Ranger plants...WTF is going on?

I wonder how long Ford will tolerate that kind of poor result before doing something,
there's a new broom in Dearborn and I don't think he's as tolerant as Jim Hackett was.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Even with the higher profits of what, 250k of Ranger and 30k of Everest in the region,
Ford Asia Pacific makes no profit in 2019, neither does Africa or South America
even though the latter two also have their own Ranger plants...WTF is going on?

I wonder how long Ford will tolerate that kind of poor result before doing something,
there's a new broom in Dearborn and I don't think he's as tolerant as Jim Hackett was.

Ford Asia Pacific has not existed for quite a while now.

And all I know is IMG is profitable, but the final results haven't been released yet. A lot of restructuring has gone on to improve profitability, and the results are coming through. Corona hasn't helped though.

Hackett spent most of his time aimed at increasing profitability. Those results will flow through over time. It doesn't work overnight.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford Asia Pacific has not existed for quite a while now.

And all I know is IMG is profitable, but the final results haven't been released yet. A lot of restructuring has gone on to improve profitability, and the results are coming through. Corona hasn't helped though.

Hackett spent most of his time aimed at increasing profitability. Those results will flow through over time. It doesn't work overnight.

To the end of 2019 Ford still reported financials of FAP, didn't make a profit all year.

and for the first two quarters of 2020, IMG made no profit (for obvious reasons).
My point is that it doesn't matter how good your products are, if they don't turn profit....

Jim Farley is a much less tolerant personality than Jim Hackett, the pressure is now on
as he will be keen to stop divisions stinking up the books with continued losses.

Changing Ford Asia Pacific to IMG looks like rounding up the troubled areas into
a nice neat little non-descript title - much easier to give the heave-ho to later on.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

To the end of 2019 Ford still reported financials of FAP, didn't make a profit all year.

and for the first two quarters of 2020, IMG made no profit (for obvious reasons).
My point is that it doesn't matter how good your products are, if they don't turn profit....

Jim Farley is a much less tolerant personality than Jim Hackett, the pressure is now on
as he will be keen to stop divisions stinking up the books with continued losses.

Changing Ford Asia Pacific to IMG looks like rounding up the troubled areas into
a nice neat little non-descript title - much easier to the heave-ho to later on.

More like separating China into it's own division, because it was dragging the whole region down. They really screwed up there. Also allows the Chinese to better suit products specifically to Chinese buying tastes. There are a whole bunch of chinese specific market vehicles on the way, which should stem the bleeding and push sales back to where they should be. It's the biggest market in the world, they really need a strong presence there.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

More like separating China into it's own division, because it was dragging the whole region down. They really screwed up there. Also allows the Chinese to better suit products specifically to Chinese buying tastes. There are a whole bunch of chinese specific market vehicles on the way, which should stem the bleeding and push sales back to where they should be. It's the biggest market in the world, they really need a strong presence there.

They already split out China's results from FAP last year, China suffered an $800 million loss in 2019.
All the BEVs from Zyote are now in doubt as its struggling to survive.....

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

To the end of 2019 Ford still reported financials of FAP, didn't make a profit all year.

and for the first two quarters of 2020, IMG made no profit (for obvious reasons).
My point is that it doesn't matter how good your products are, if they don't turn profit....

Jim Farley is a much less tolerant personality than Jim Hackett, the pressure is now on
as he will be keen to stop divisions stinking up the books with continued losses.

Changing Ford Asia Pacific to IMG looks like rounding up the troubled areas into
a nice neat little non-descript title - much easier to give the heave-ho to later on.

Hackett not Auto background to Farley who is.
Will be interesting, Farley will definately be alot of BARK it will be more what he can get done within reason now for shareholders won't want to endure more loss's.
The BEV investment is paramount for the future, will be interesting from the sideline what his game plan becomes.
Where he's going to cut their loss's is the trillion dollar question he'll be working on.
Don't envy his job.
Bossxr8, they are so far behind in China I can't see them making much ground for a long long time TBH and at what cost to finally get better market share before a decent ROI.
From my observations and many visits there and listenning to people in the game.
I mentioned this sometime ago in another thread, its their lack of Distribution around that huge wide land and range once again.
Now how much is that going to cost to set up/invetories/stock/supplies.

Where are their loss's in Asia Pac jpd ?
We're told what great ROI they are getting selling so called high end product today here ?

[au2000]

I'd be interested in how the Chinese tax what's ultimately a u.s product compared to their own and in some cases state owned products. I'd hazard a guess the odds are stacked against ford and other companies over there.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by au2000

I'd be interested in how the Chinese tax what's ultimately a u.s product compared to their own and in some cases state owned products. I'd hazard a guess the odds are stacked against ford and other companies over there.

Import tax into China for vehicles starts at 33%, those that choose to build there must
have a 50/50 joint venture Chinese partner, so auto companies are being ripped off .

Steve Saleem had a big chunk of his business and IP stolen recently because he couldn't
return to defend it, the local Chinese city funding him, moved in took all his plant equipmen
and started trademarking his IP.

By their own admission, Ford let its Chinese range get very stale in 2018 and learner that
the Chinese shun any vehicles seen as dated, that's continued in 2019 and of course, this year.
Ford is now hopelessly disconnected from global markets and completely focused on the USA.

[au2000]

So in reality if ford builds in china they are open to being pressured out and having their work stolen over there? Given the worlds current view of china I wonder if good ole trump would push to have us company's pull out of manufacturing over there too

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by au2000

So in reality if ford builds in china they are open to being pressured out and having their work stolen over there? Given the worlds current view of china I wonder if good ole trump would push to have us company's pull out of manufacturing over there too

No because a lot of their IP and designs are fortunately trademarked there but hard to say,
GM with strong selling Buick and Cadillac are arguably more exposed.

I think China is "quick sand", a mirage, a bad poker machine that will never pay off for Ford
and all they're doing is spending good money after bad in the hope of something paying off.
They wasted all that money on a large car for China while snubbing the Australian buyer.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hackett not Auto background to Farley who is.
Will be interesting, Farley will definately be alot of BARK it will be more what he can get done within reason now for shareholders won't want to endure more loss's.
The BEV investment is paramount for the future, will be interesting from the sideline what his game plan becomes.
Where he's going to cut their loss's is the trillion dollar question he'll be working on.
Don't envy his job.
Bossxr8, they are so far behind in China I can't see them making much ground for a long long time TBH and at what cost to finally get better market share before a decent ROI.
From my observations and many visits there and listenning to people in the game.
I mentioned this sometime ago in another thread, its their lack of Distribution around that huge wide land and range once again.
Now how much is that going to cost to set up/invetories/stock/supplies.

Where are their loss's in Asia Pac jpd ?
We're told what great ROI they are getting selling so called high end product today here ?

Well they have admitted the problems with china. That was the whole point of splitting off china into it's own division, with a focus on products to strictly suit the chinese market. Whether that pays off, who knows. It's the worlds biggest car market so I guess you really need to compete there.

Farleys first speech was about strengthening commercial vehicles and BEV's.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hackett not Auto background to Farley who is.
Will be interesting, Farley will definately be alot of BARK it will be more what he can get done within reason now for shareholders won't want to endure more loss's.
The BEV investment is paramount for the future, will be interesting from the sideline what his game plan becomes.
Where he's going to cut their loss's is the trillion dollar question he'll be working on.
Don't envy his job.
Bossxr8, they are so far behind in China I can't see them making much ground for a long long time TBH and at what cost to finally get better market share before a decent ROI.
From my observations and many visits there and listenning to people in the game.
I mentioned this sometime ago in another thread, its their lack of Distribution around that huge wide land and range once again.
Now how much is that going to cost to set up/invetories/stock/supplies.

Where are their loss's in Asia Pac jpd ?
We're told what great ROI they are getting selling so called high end product today here ?

Ford's quarterly and end of year financial statements don't break down the losses within Asia Pacific in 2019
but even the new International Motor group with over 100 countries struggles to find profit even with Ranger.
Bottom line is their costs/ outgoings is greater than income but not by much, it's kinda break even but still...

Accept that Ranger is a cash cow, so what's killing most of Ford's profit across +100 countries?

[Venomous1]

Its kind of hard to want to say it but I can see it too that we are certainly lucky we have Ford in Australia. Ranger company certainly now. Just not the same excitement from there cars anymore Mustang still has a little of that essence. The ST brand and the prices are just not Ford prices anymore I notice Toyota is getting dearer all the time.

The Toyota yard locally looks sad no stock.

[kevino]

Re no profit for Ford Img.
Isn’t it just a result of transfer pricing?
Ie load up Ford Aus with high costs from parent only break even and then pay no tax in Aus.
Isn’t that what GM did to Holden?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

I was told the Toyota dealers asked for the new model to be held back as they were overstocked with the old model.

100% incorrect.



You cannot get a Hilux at the moment anywhere.



Hilux numbers for August will be horrendous I predict.



No old stock and an embargo on new stock which cannot be retailed till the end of the month.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Venomous1

Its kind of hard to want to say it but I can see it too that we are certainly lucky we have Ford in Australia. Ranger company certainly now. Just not the same excitement from there cars anymore Mustang still has a little of that essence. The ST brand and the prices are just not Ford prices anymore I notice Toyota is getting dearer all the time.

The Toyota yard locally looks sad no stock.

Just yesterday there was an article about Toyota raising prices pretty much across the board. Cashing in on their popularity?

https://www.caradvice.com.au/871945/...oss-the-range/

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford's quarterly and end of year financial statements don't break down the losses within Asia Pacific in 2019
but even the new International Motor group with over 100 countries struggles to find profit even with Ranger.
Bottom line is their costs/ outgoings is greater than income but not by much, it's kinda break even but still...

Accept that Ranger is a cash cow, so what's killing most of Ford's profit across +100 countries?

Tell us please ?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just yesterday there was an article about Toyota raising prices pretty much across the board. Cashing in on their popularity?

https://www.caradvice.com.au/871945/...oss-the-range/

Makes you wonder doesn't it. I think that and the cost of Covid-19.


New Hilux SR5 is around $62k retail now, and still misses out on things like a tub liner and a tow bar tongue. Towbar is standard but they want you to pay $600 for wiring an a tongue?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Makes you wonder doesn't it. I think that and the cost of Covid-19.


New Hilux SR5 is around $62k retail now, and still misses out on things like a tub liner and a tow bar tongue. Towbar is standard but they want you to pay $600 for wiring an a tongue?

The new model Hilux is supposed to be about an extra 2k RRP as well.

How is the yen going against the aussie dollar?

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No because a lot of their IP and designs are fortunately trademarked there but hard to say,
GM with strong selling Buick and Cadillac are arguably more exposed.

I think China is "quick sand", a mirage, a bad poker machine that will never pay off for Ford
and all they're doing is spending good money after bad in the hope of something paying off.
They wasted all that money on a large car for China while snubbing the Australian buyer.

Last I heard the CCP have any company over a barrel investing in China.
IF you want IN you have no choice but to agree something regards to IP.
Trade mark or not sooner or later they have reversed engineered it in any case.

As we've seen Ford is a minnow there and they are more exposed than most imo.
Wonder IF the Germans are worried ? I think not.
Das Auto has been there for an eternity, Passat was the taxi king for some 40years so VW is entrenched there massively.
The amount of Euro premium brands is not funny on the roads.
Yep GM/Buick have done well also in market share I doubt they are exposed when SAIC General Motors Sales Co., Ltd. is a joint venture between GM China and SAIC that was established on November 25, 2011. GM China has a 49 percent stake and SAIC a 51 percent stake unless things have chnged.
Japs also doing ok Toy/Mazda/Nissan for eg, a enemy traditionally but they are entrenched.

[Bossxr8]

Increasing prices seems to be the in thing atm. Ranger going up by about $400, the Hilux will be up by over $2k, and the new D-Max up by between $2-8k, which is a big price rise for them. They are no longer going to compete on price, they want to position the vehicle with the Hilux and Ranger, not the cheapies like Triton etc.