Utes are fast becoming the new Aussie family car: Toyota HiLux and Ford Ranger set new record - Page 2

**buggerlugs** · 03-11-2016, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Anyone considering a dual cab for their next car?

Just bought one...........This is our 3rd Hilux SR5 diesel. Faultless and awesome resale.............

Joe5619 · 03-11-2016, 09:54 PM

Who ever brings a V8 to one of these utes first, is going to make a killing.. I'm surprised no-one has done it yet in Australia. Surly there is a market there for it?

XD 351 Ute · 03-11-2016, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipXW

Got a clevo powered x-series in the shed for kicks. Happy days.

I like that part!

For me, the bigger utes these days are too tall for my impeded verticular structure. I like my Falcon utes because they fit me so well, and have always been comfy.

Ed

vztrt · 03-11-2016, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick74GT

I don't really understand the hate, maybe it's because falcon and commodore are no longer being produced ?

Been driving these things very regulary for 8 years and I would never put my into buying one.

They all seem to be touted as driving an suv....ah yeah ok....then they're slow as and steer like a boat. I guess they're handy for driving over median strips...

As for versitile....we use territories (or my own personal ute) cause they're more efficient cause of the rubbish tray thats on these thing.

xr8cam · 03-11-2016, 10:04 PM

There businesses here doing roadworthy registered factory backed Toyota Tundra's, Dodge Ram's and the big Ford F-150 all in right hand drive. I see plenty in Sydney but I know you mean a V8 in the current shaped Ford Ranger or Hilux. You'd be suprised if that wasn't a popular option. It will be interesting to see what new car buyers demand over the next few years. I have already noticed some suprising results in the 2nd hyand market since Ford Aust & Falcon have parted ways.

**Rallye Sport** · 03-11-2016, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipXW

Average fuel economy for either Falcon was 13-16/100. Ive done 32000km in the Ranger and have averaged 7.9l/100...

Funny that, its the opposite here, the work Rangers done a best of 12.9 around town on diesel, my BF Falcon will do 10.2 under the same conditions. Even the TE50 will do 12.5 around town... The Falcons run like clockwork, the Rangers been in three times for engine light/ limp mode faults.

FlipXW · 03-11-2016, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Funny that, its the opposite here, the work Rangers done a best of 12.9 around town on diesel, my BF Falcon will do 10.2 under the same conditions. Even the TE50 will do 12.5 around town... The Falcons run like clockwork, the Rangers been in three times for engine light/ limp mode faults.

I'd have a guess that those Rangers being work cars are carrying a considerable amount of weight over standard. Also being work cars aren't driven in the fashion someone would drive their personal car either. 12.5 in your TE? I never got that in my XR6 AU, ever. Maybe I've grown up a bit in my driving style since then.
As for issues theres no shortage of threads on here about falcon/territory known problems; rust, ball joints, brake rotors, milkshake trans, diff bushes etc. Some will have them some won't, luck of the draw really. In my personal experience the Ranger has been the best built and most reliable car I've owned.

**Rallye Sport** · 03-11-2016, 11:47 PM

Nope, the ranger is just a run around, heaviest thing it carries is the smoko run, we have trucks for real loads, and Yep the TE will show good returns in 'cruising' mode.

jimt3te50 · 04-11-2016, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Anyone considering a dual cab for their next car?

I'd rather pull hairs out of my bum than drive a dual cab ute

Sabantien · 04-11-2016, 01:18 AM

Can't say I hate these dual cab utes. I think the article does draw a long bow to suggest that high sales mean they're the new family car. I'd say it's more likely they're the new fleet car.

As I said earlier, lack of fuel economy, potential safety issues in emergency conditions and actual results in crashes, they're not the safest vehicle to put your family into, but I do understand there's a perception that you're safer in a bigger car. With all that said, yes, there is the versatility of a utility vehicle, which is kind of the point of them, and for many people, that's what they are looking for.

Heck, I find myself wanting a Fiesta ST, but also my Falcon (ideally a Mustang - because we don't have Challengers yet), and yes, I'd like a 4wd too. But I also have absolutely nothing to use the tray for, so i'd probably be aiming more for a fully enclosed body.

Unfortunately I can't afford three cars (although if my gf gets another hatchback on salary sacrifice, i'll be encouraging that Fiesta!) and I get that for many people, a utility is the compromise of all the cars they want. Which probably also explains the SUV thing a little, a Turbo Territory is probably the closest i'd come to a compromise of everything i'd like.

So would I buy one if I was car shopping tomorrow? Probably not. But i'd take one for a drive, and maybe i'd change my mind. Hell, my G6E was meant to be a small manual 4 cylinder.

chevypower · 04-11-2016, 02:56 AM

They are just so much more practical. I think anyone who has owned a crew cab ute has owned a few sedans, but not necessarily the other way around. I can seat 6 comfortably, tow what I want, carry what I want, do 0-100 in 7-8 seconds, easily hold 6th gear while cruising up hills on the highway, I can go off-road if I want. if cross a ditch I won't scrape the bumper. I have the best resale value. I average under 13L/100km (combined). I just don't have any desire to go back to a sedan. Though I wouldn't say no to that new Mercedes E63 or a Tesla Model S. But if I could only have one vehicle, it would be a diesel crew cab ute 4x4.

lra · 04-11-2016, 08:07 AM

For those who don't want a practical barge, the next big thing in impractical barges.....
http://www.carsales.com.au/editorial...rop-top-104472

mick74GT · 04-11-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Been driving these things very regulary for 8 years and I would never put my into buying one.

They all seem to be touted as driving an suv....ah yeah ok....then they're slow as and steer like a boat. I guess they're handy for driving over median strips...

As for versitile....we use territories (or my own personal ute) cause they're more efficient cause of the rubbish tray thats on these thing.

Like I said when we bought ours I certainly didn't go there looking for something fast that handled like a Porsche. I think if you are looking for that then obviously you aren't looking to buy a Ranger. I have the Maloo if I want that.

and with all due respect, a Territory is hardly an awe inspiring drive. But I cant imagine that they are bought for that reason either.

At the end of the day though I'm not trying to bash Territories or Falcons. Hell, I've got a Falcon albeit an old one. But the article is about these things being bought as family/work cars and I just put forward the reason I bought ours .

I just found it surprising the amount of negativity directed to them as Ford have done something right here. They account for half of their total sales. I love aussie cars. I have the GT and Maloo as well. But I bought a new Ford Ranger and I never would have bought a new Ford Falcon. Not looking for validation from anyone I suppose as we love the ute but that's just the honest, brutal truth from me a recent buyer.

TheSneakiness · 04-11-2016, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Anyone considering a dual cab for their next car?

Yeah I have, I hired a brand new Triton about a month or two back, aside from being a mine pack special it drove ok, didn't seem to have the power the Pajero I had did. I was considering adding one to my list mainly due to the fact my son loved it and could see better out of it but I cannot justify the costs of running and maintenance.

SumoDog68 · 04-11-2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabantien

Can't say I hate these dual cab utes. I think the article does draw a long bow to suggest that high sales mean they're the new family car. I'd say it's more likely they're the new fleet car.

As I said earlier, lack of fuel economy, potential safety issues in emergency conditions and actual results in crashes, they're not the safest vehicle to put your family into, but I do understand there's a perception that you're safer in a bigger car. With all that said, yes, there is the versatility of a utility vehicle, which is kind of the point of them, and for many people, that's what they are looking for.

Heck, I find myself wanting a Fiesta ST, but also my Falcon (ideally a Mustang - because we don't have Challengers yet), and yes, I'd like a 4wd too. But I also have absolutely nothing to use the tray for, so i'd probably be aiming more for a fully enclosed body.

Unfortunately I can't afford three cars (although if my gf gets another hatchback on salary sacrifice, i'll be encouraging that Fiesta!) and I get that for many people, a utility is the compromise of all the cars they want. Which probably also explains the SUV thing a little, a Turbo Territory is probably the closest i'd come to a compromise of everything i'd like.

So would I buy one if I was car shopping tomorrow? Probably not. But i'd take one for a drive, and maybe i'd change my mind. Hell, my G6E was meant to be a small manual 4 cylinder.

Dual cabs are generally common rail turbo diesels and have great fuel economy for their size and overall. Under 10l/100km is achievable as a long term average which some corollas struggle to match.
Most modern dual cabs are equipped with stability control, abs and numerous airbags which gives them good passive safety . Mass is on their side as well compared to something like dynamically superior Fiesta.
Dynamically , they obviously don't compare to a modern sports car but have come a long way from what they used to be like even only 10years ago. I would dare say they are more efficient ,handle and stop better and are safer than something like NC Fairlane for example. Another thing is when you drive those high centre of gravity vehicles you tend to adjust your driving style to suit. I swap between a V8 sedan and a dual cab and find travel times similar but dual cab is more relaxing to drive as i don't push it . As an added bonus you can take your dual cab offload , not worry about scratching your alloys when mrs is driving and tow heavy things
. They are also great for people who like to work on their cars as they are simple and spacious - easy to work on. You can customise them easily to your taste as there is a whole aftermarket industry that supports them.

unclefred94 · 04-11-2016, 01:13 PM

I've got a new ranger and although i don't love it it does serve a purpose for my job where nothing else does. What I cant understand is why all the Utes have the engines that they do, over technical 4 and 5 cylinder diesels with DPF and EGR. I cant workout why more companies don't use petrol's, they've come so far in the past few years with torque and fuel efficiency and don't have the same emission problems that modern diesels have.

SumoDog68 · 04-11-2016, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefred94

I've got a new ranger and although i don't love it it does serve a purpose for my job where nothing else does. What I cant understand is why all the Utes have the engines that they do, over technical 4 and 5 cylinder diesels with DPF and EGR. I cant workout why more companies don't use petrol's, they've come so far in the past few years with torque and fuel efficiency and don't have the same emission problems that modern diesels have.

Mine is actually a V6 turbo diesel. :-)
Turbo diesels are more efficient when loaded up - new generation of petrol engines are good for passenger cars but you won't see them in heavy trucks or busses. Do you really want a 1.8l turbo petrol in a dual cab ute ? Higher capacity high power petrol engines would be a waste in something like a dual cab.

unclefred94 · 04-11-2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Mine is actually a V6 turbo diesel. :-)
Turbo diesels are more efficient when loaded up - new generation of petrol engines are good for passenger cars but you won't see them in heavy trucks or busses. Do you really want a 1.8l turbo petrol in a dual cab ute ? Higher capacity high power petrol engines would be a waste in something like a dual cab.

No i'm not talking about 2l petrols but like 3L 6 cylinders woud be much better for a lot of tasks. but what is the fixation on 4 cylinder diesels less than 3L. A few more v6 diesels would be nice. They're so much nicer to drive.

SumoDog68 · 04-11-2016, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefred94

No i'm not talking about 2l petrols but like 3L 6 cylinders woud be much better for a lot of tasks. but what is the fixation on 4 cylinder diesels less than 3L. A few more v6 diesels would be nice. They're so much nicer to drive.

New generation of petrol engines (turbo , direct injection , tuned for wide torque band) were developed as a part of fuel efficiency push and downsizing of engine displacement was part of it. They are not really working on mainstream large capacity 6s or 8s. Those are for premium vehicles which dual cabs generally are not. They can get 150kW / 500Nm out of two litre td these days which is deemed enough for the task. As a range topper you might get a 3litre 6 td with 180kW/600Nm like upcoming Amarok V6 or Mercedes X series (based on Navara).

Vesper Martini · 04-11-2016, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefred94

I've got a new ranger and although i don't love it it does serve a purpose for my job where nothing else does. What I cant understand is why all the Utes have the engines that they do, over technical 4 and 5 cylinder diesels with DPF and EGR. I cant workout why more companies don't use petrol's, they've come so far in the past few years with torque and fuel efficiency and don't have the same emission problems that modern diesels have.

Hilux Australia's biggest selling car is still available with the 4.0 V6 petrol.

It hasn't changed in years though, and I'm pretty sure the ratio swings hard to the Diesel.

I agree with you though You need to look to the Ford F150 to see the advances in Petrol V6

Americas Biggest selling car if I'm not mistaken

Vesper Martini · 04-11-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Who ever brings a V8 to one of these utes first, is going to make a killing.. I'm surprised no-one has done it yet in Australia. Surly there is a market there for it?

I disagree, these utes are selling because they are practical.
they are not designed for going Fast a lot of people even fit lift kits - so they only thing good about putting a V8(petrol) in one would be the sound.

Mercury Bullet · 04-11-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I agree with you though You need to look to the Ford F150 to see the advances in Petrol V6

Americas Biggest selling car if I'm not mistaken

I think it was on Top Gear I saw the F-150 being touted as the worlds best selling car.

Surprised me.

SumoDog68 · 04-11-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Hilux Australia's biggest selling car is still available with the 4.0 V6 petrol.

It hasn't changed in years though, and I'm pretty sure the ratio swings hard to the Diesel.

I agree with you though You need to look to the Ford F150 to see the advances in Petrol V6

Americas Biggest selling car if I'm not mistaken

Current Hilux has limited availability with a 4.0 Petrol - only 4x2 dual cab from memory. GR engine is good but old school compared to new generation turbo petrol engines.

V8 Ghia Mike · 04-11-2016, 04:10 PM

I had the misfortune of driving a brand new DMax dual cab for two days as a loan car recently. Honestly, I was looking forward to experiencing why these things are so popular. It was awful. Slow, terrible, terrible handling and NVH, fuel economy pretty ordinary, jittery, bouncy ride, horrible vertical driving position with nowhere to rest my elbows and knees...I had thought that by now these things should be nice to drive, but it wasn't even close. I actually found it harder to get our little fella in and out of his baby seat as I had to climb up and in. I'm six foot one and found it tricky, who knows how my little wife would ever cope.

By the end of the second day, I just couldn't wait to get back into my G6ET and what a soothing pleasure that was. I really wanted to like the SUV thing but came to the conclusion that we are much safer in the Falcon due to it's inherent dynamics of better handling, braking and overtaking ability. No thanks.

Vesper Martini · 04-11-2016, 04:25 PM

Yeah 4x2 duel cab sounds about the right option if you wanted the Petrol.
they did offer a supercharged version in the TRD Hilux but that was short lived.
to my knowledge Toyota doesn't really have another Petrol engine to offer.

Ford do, but there seems to be little demand or knowledge about it here, despite it being one of the best advances Ford has over the others

chevypower · 04-11-2016, 04:27 PM

I got in a Triumph 2500TC sedan one time and it was slow, gutless, and drove like absolute crap. Poor fuel economy, unreliable, and ugly as sin. I decided that since that sedan was crap, then all sedans must suck, so you won't catch me dead in another!

**Polyal** · 04-11-2016, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Who ever brings a V8 to one of these utes first, is going to make a killing.. I'm surprised no-one has done it yet in Australia. Surly there is a market there for it?

Yeap. While it wouldn't sell hugely if it was tied in with a global car then surely there would be a business case.

They are not the height of automotive brilliance they are incredibly practical and good enough on fuel. Nothing comes close to them for an overall jack of all trades.

Now you have the Ranger and others increasing the quality and why would you go back to a sedan?

I wish they had a bench seat option so you could fit 6 and that for me would remove the need to have to buy a wagon.

7 seater SUV is fine but having a tray for odd jobs would be handy.

Vesper Martini · 04-11-2016, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Ghia Mike

I really wanted to like the SUV thing but came to the conclusion that we are much safer in the Falcon due to it's inherent dynamics of better handling, braking and overtaking ability. No thanks.

Don't rope the 6m long twin cab utes/trucks whatever, under the one SUV bracket. There are other SUV's like the Territory, that can perform more like a car.

**Polyal** · 04-11-2016, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

I got in a Triumph 2500TC sedan one time and it was slow, gutless, and drove like absolute crap. Poor fuel economy, unreliable, and ugly as sin. I decided that since that sedan was crap, then all sedans must suck, so you won't catch me dead in another!

You didnt try very hard, that car is just a pus car full stop. Could have atleast got a dolomite sprint or something like that if you wanted a pommy sedan.

351@GT · 04-11-2016, 07:24 PM

I finaly relented to buying a dual cab, have always had a ute for me and a sedan for the missus. Having a ute has always come in handy and I never really wanted the slow diesel, poor handling etc etc

She's in a territory and theres no way she will let that go, so I've ended up with dual cab for 2 reasons only.
One is that i can pick the kids up if she is at the other end of town and
Two is i can put the motorbikes in the back and tow the camper at the same time, no more taking 2 cars/trailers.

Is it fast/fun no, is it a good ute..... NO, crappy little tray etc but its does serve its purpose and multi use.

Was hoping the missus would let me change the terry over back to a sedan, but its a bit the same - she can throw whatever she wants in the back, 5 kids, bikes etc etc.

Now 2x slow diesels... =\ Least i still have the bikes.