General Motors international boss Stefan Jacoby says Australia is better without car manufacturing - Page 2

johnydep · 14-01-2015, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Not going to happen. Look at what is happening right now to naval shipbuilding. Look at what has happened to our heavy engineering capacity for resources projects for the North-West Shelf. We're even importing bananas.

We're destined to be a quarry with side businesses of drycleaning, coffee shops, and tourism charters and no one seems to give a stuff.

That's the exact same talk of my parents generation that I had to listen to as a kind growing up in the 1980's

I suppose if wee say it long enough...

Wretched · 14-01-2015, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Not going to happen. Look at what is happening right now to naval shipbuilding. Look at what has happened to our heavy engineering capacity for resources projects for the North-West Shelf. We're even importing bananas.

We're destined to be a quarry with side businesses of drycleaning, coffee shops, and tourism charters and no one seems to give a stuff.

I agree 100%. There needs to be more support for viable industries here.
We could potentially be a food bowl (wheat, meat, fresh fruit and veg and dairy) for APAC, we could be setting up alternative energy industries (solar, nuclear, wind, etc) and researching these by supporting science bodies like the CSIRO then engineering and deploying these solutions and of course encouraging investment opportunities here.

We can't even get a decent telecommunications infrastructure set up. We're in the dark ages here.

For too many years (even generations) Australia has been thinking short term and never the long term. It is now and will continue to bite us hard.

zilo · 14-01-2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

I agree 100%. There needs to be more support for viable industries here.
We could potentially be a food bowl (wheat, meat, fresh fruit and veg and dairy) for APAC, we could be setting up alternative energy industries (solar, nuclear, wind, etc) and researching these by supporting science bodies like the CSIRO then engineering and deploying these solutions and of course encouraging investment opportunities here.

We can't even get a decent telecommunications infrastructure set up. We're in the dark ages here.

For too many years (even generations) Australia has been thinking short term and never the long term. It is now and will continue to bite us hard.

One word significantly responsible for all the points you have mentioned comes to mind.....

Abbott.

Syndrome · 14-01-2015, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

One word significantly responsible for all the points you have mentioned comes to mind.....

Abbott.

Wrong!. Ford announced their closure under the Gillard government. Once Ford made their announcement the others were destined to follow regardless of which government was in power.

The Button Plan was the Trojan Horse which ultimately lead to the demise of the Australia automotive manufacturing industry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKJOEn0E4mc&t=2m017s

SpoolMan · 14-01-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Gee I got **** canned back in ’09 when I mentioned this exact thing back then about a certain CEO that said the same thing, oh hang on but what would a CEO of a major bank know about it I was told...

I will go for one in 5 years time, by the year 2020 there will be no more Holden name everything will be named GM.

Wretched · 14-01-2015, 04:57 PM

It doesn't matter which government were in power at the time, the decisions and plans had been made long before. Even before those the rot was setting in for AU long ago. Not just in one industry but a range of them.

mik · 14-01-2015, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

One word significantly responsible for all the points you have mentioned comes to mind.....

Abbott.

Dude ..... not sure if serious ???
wake up and smell what your shoveling, we where headed down this path we are on years ago ....... mr x nothing whatever to do for our current direction.

zilo · 14-01-2015, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

Dude ..... not sure if serious ???
wake up and smell what your shoveling, we where headed down this path we are on years ago ....... mr x nothing whatever to do for our current direction.

The points I responded to were..
Alternative energy..
telecommunications...
CSIRO.....
Automobile industry support policies...

NBN, no science minister, csiro funding cuts, dismantling of automobile industry subsidies and solar/wind projects

All in the current term of government.

Please check your facts before hitting the enter key?

johnydep · 14-01-2015, 05:27 PM

Nikked · 14-01-2015, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

The points I responded to were..
Alternative energy..
telecommunications...
CSIRO.....
Automobile industry support policies...

NBN, no science minister, csiro funding cuts, dismantling of automobile industry subsidies and solar/wind projects

All in the current term of government.

Please check your facts before hitting the enter key?

You forgot polices put in place over the last 30 years by all governments...

zilo · 14-01-2015, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Wrong!. Ford announced their closure under the Gillard government. Once Ford made their announcement the others were destined to follow regardless of which government was in power.

The Button Plan was the Trojan Horse which ultimately lead to the demise of the Australia automotive manufacturing industry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKJOEn0E4mc&t=2m017s

Wrong? about what?

Nikked · 14-01-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Wrong? about what?

In blaming Abbot.

zilo · 14-01-2015, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

You forgot polices put in place over the last 30 years by all governments...

Huh??

Nikked · 14-01-2015, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Huh??

Over the last 30 years (since the button plan) the car industry in Australia has slid down hill. Tariffs dropped, factories closed and number of models built he were reduced.

zilo · 14-01-2015, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

In blaming Abbot.

For what?

Adamz Ghia · 14-01-2015, 05:51 PM

Zilo, you specifically blamed Tony Abott for the ills we now face, don't act dumb, read your posts.

You are wrong on that.

This country is a victim of poor planning over the last 35 years. This is the fault of all governments, Liberal and Labor. Howard and Costello at least set up the Future Fund but that's about it.

zilo · 14-01-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Over the last 30 years (since the button plan) the car industry in Australia has slid down hill. Tariffs dropped, factories closed and number of models built he were reduced.

The exchange rate was $USD 0.48 in 2001.

It was recently $USD1.10

Nobody can export anything to the world with those rate variations.

To sustain a factory here you need to export even a portion of your output.

That seems to be the biggest rot factor in my opinion.

zilo · 14-01-2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Zilo, you specifically blamed Tony Abott for the ills we now face, don't act dumb, read your posts.

You are wrong on that.

This country is a victim of poor planning over the last 35 years. This is the fault of all governments, Liberal and Labor. Howard and Costello at least set up the Future Fund but that's about it.

I specifically blamed him for specific points.

NBN
science policy
alternate energy policy
car industry funding termination

so no, you are wrong, cause you can't read.

Road_Warrior · 14-01-2015, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

The Button Plan was the Trojan Horse which ultimately lead to the demise of the Australia automotive manufacturing industry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKJOEn0E4mc&t=2m017s

There was nothing inherently wrong with the Button Car Plan at the time. The problem was that no one reviewed that plan to account for market and industry changes in the 30+ years since. Contrived "Productivity Commission" hearings into the issue were little more than a Kangaroo-court style environment and were a complete joke.

Iggle Piggle · 14-01-2015, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

We could potentially be a food bowl (wheat, meat, fresh fruit and veg and dairy) for APAC...

It's OK, we will be the food-bowl...heaps of good quality local produce from the Chinese-owned farms going overseas (and associated profits too).

But local manufacturing workers will be able to get work on the Chinese-owned farms if they are willing to relocate - relocate overseas that is, then come back on a 457 visa to work the farms.

malazn mafia · 14-01-2015, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

One word significantly responsible for all the points you have mentioned comes to mind.....

Abbott.

Two words responsible for everything:

- Unions
- Labour Govt

Iggle Piggle · 14-01-2015, 09:56 PM

How about we say most of what is wrong is the fault of politicians and just leave it at that?

Adamz Ghia · 14-01-2015, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

I specifically blamed him for specific points.

NBN
science policy
alternate energy policy
car industry funding termination

so no, you are wrong, cause you can't read.

So rather than just say it's all Abotts fault, explain how. how is cutting car funding causing the three auto manufacturers we have to leave when two went under Labor who threw money at them and two under Liberal when cuts were announced. Did you think about what you posted or did you just hit submit.

All well and good to just blame someone. Doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

Adamz Ghia · 14-01-2015, 11:04 PM

I'm not trying to start a liberal v Labor argument, but rather than just sheet blame explain the thinking behind your opinions.

jpblue1000 · 14-01-2015, 11:15 PM

I think the true people to blame for pretty much everything wrong with the country are the voting Australians.
I think of late, its fair to say too many people vote with their personal hip pockets without a thought or idea about the well being of the country as a whole, with short sighted horizons and turning policy debate into a personality competition between politicians.
We get the politicians we deserve, and we deserve this lot!

JP

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2015, 11:24 PM

Say politics 3 times in front of the mirror and Big Damo appears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Two words responsible for everything:

- Unions
- Labour Govt

Yes, how dare we all have paid annual leave, paid public holidays, paid sick leave, paid long service leave, decent minimum wage, superannuation, health and safety legislation and unfair dismissal laws!

Universal health care is also a pain in the ***, how dare GPs be free!

So when you handing your entitlements back in?

Oh, and its LABOR, not Labour.

Free trade agreements and globalisation signed the end of local manufacturing, why build cars here out of a factory which was built in 1960 when you can build them just across the ocean in a massive new plant in Thailand with 5x the production capacity, and pay them 1/10th of what Australians get paid?

Even some of the Japanese auto manufacturers make their cars in Thailand that they sell to us.

Manufacturing will follow the people who are willing to work for the lowest wage and conditions, Thailand is already losing out to Indonesia for some manufacturing work.

Also Thailand is cracking down on companies using cheap Burmese labour, so they're already being threatened.

Notice how Ford is still keeping their engineering arm here in Australia? Why didn't they outsource them to China or Thailand because they'll work for much less $$$?

Might be able to train some cheap monkeys to operate machinery but actually designing something from the ground up takes education and experience, and that is a little bit harder to outsource.

mik · 14-01-2015, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I think the true people to blame for pretty much everything wrong with the country are the voting Australians.
I think of late, its fair to say too many people vote with their personal hip pockets without a thought or idea about the well being of the country as a whole, with short sighted horizons and turning policy debate into a personality competition between politicians.
We get the politicians we deserve, and we deserve this lot!

JP

You have hit the nail on the head sir , as we also deserved the lot before that and the lot before that , and it keeps going for decades back into the way back machine.

As the once proud Australian battle cry of " you beauty mate ....full steam ahead " .... the battle cry has become " oy ... richard cranium ..... dont push in the dole Que !

b0son · 15-01-2015, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yes, how dare we all have paid annual leave, paid public holidays, paid sick leave, paid long service leave, decent minimum wage, superannuation, health and safety legislation and unfair dismissal laws!

Wait, what?? We only got these entitlements in the last 10-20 years??? Because that's the only way your statement is relevant.

Have you read the EBAs? They were overpaid, supervisor to process worker ratios were excessive, union 'training' days, ridiculous redundancy provisions... etc etc. All the same things that will spell the end of most industries with a strong union presence (eg. Qantas/aviation).

Globalisation is to blame, for sure. In an increasingly competitive market, condtions get tighter and there's less money... yet the unions always want to take more and more when the pie is getting smaller and smaller. That was never going to be sustainable.

MethodX · 15-01-2015, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I will go for one in 5 years time, by the year 2020 there will be no more Holden name everything will be named GM.

You may be onto something there. The newer Holden Dealers have the GM symbol under the Holden symbol.

irish2 · 15-01-2015, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Wait, what?? We only got these entitlements in the last 10-20 years??? Because that's the only way your statement is relevant.

What is the relevance of this? Those conditions were union fought conditions. They are also conditions that our close neighbors do not share. Maybe we should get workers to live in the factory on $2 a day and then we will be competitive. This is the reason other first world nations protect their auto industry so vehemently.