FPV v HSV: stripped bare (GTF vs GTS performance) EVO MAGAZINE

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 701let

Exactly. 17k isn't a lot when you look at what else you get. I mean what would the brakes alone be worth on a gts?

17k difference is only RRP on paper, real world prices are probably around 85k on road for GTF and 90-95k on road for GTS which is almost 12 months old now so difference is more like 10k max

[Rodge]

And its the same in N.Z. Demo GTS's now available with asking prices now more sensible at $109K, (new Gt-F's were $100K on the road, no negotiation.

I was offered a brand new GTS for $117K Kiwi driveaway so there's the $17K Kiwi difference on a brand new to brand new direct comparison.

[ford man xf]

With times that close it really does just come down to the drivers abilities. If the two cars pulled up side by side at the traffic lights, reaction times and shifting would be the only excuse.
Wonder if any buyers of the GT-F can better those results.

[SensationFG8]

Yeah good idea compare a demo price to a limited edition price... non demo GTS asking price was 103k drive away when I was shopping 2 months ago and they weren't budging.

So going by the same logic above that's a 17k difference still.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Paul

It wouldn't actually surprise me if the automatic was quicker. I managed around 4.6 in the GT F a couple of weeks back on a fairly average road with one attempt.

Given that the ZF 6-speed is such a slick shifter, with a bit of talent and effort I'd say it could do better than the Evo time.

Vid of the run for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpSm_iiRuzQ

It seems to me that Auto's will usually be a bit faster in powerful cars these days.
Although the Auto saps power there is just too much time lost in manual gear changes.
I think the driver did very well to get those times.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Yeah good idea compare a demo price to a limited edition price... non demo GTS asking price was 103k drive away when I was shopping 2 months ago and they weren't budging.

So going by the same logic above that's a 17k difference still.

Carsales have plenty for 95k new drive away. Should be able to get one for a couple grand less if you can haggle

[SensationFG8]

Walk into the dealer and ask for a 95k new GTS, I did, they don't have them for that price. The car sales ones are probably missing LCT or something else...

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Walk into the dealer and ask for a 95k new GTS, I did, they don't have them for that price. The car sales ones are probably missing LCT or something else...

They all say driveaway, prices are dropping

[graphicgoose]

The dealer new cars listed on Carsales mean nothing, as I found when I bought my GT. I was originally chasing an F6 and despite what Carsales said there wasn't anything close to resembling what I wanted around...so that's a thing...

[SensationFG8]

They had those ads up 2 months ago when I was shopping. Walking into a dealer produces different results with excuses of "that was a demo" or "that ad is a mistake". I actually went to a dealer and talked with them about buying one. 103k drive away, not negotiable and no test drives available due to lack of cars.

Went to a few dealers talked prices with them same general story with some upto 107k.

Believe me or not doesn't bother me one bit, but don't pretend the gts and gtf are remotely the same price because my actual buying experience says otherwise.

* prices based on cheapest offered from both camps, 86k ford 103k holden new for new, demo cars can be had cheaper for sure.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

They had those ads up 2 months ago when I was shopping. Walking into a dealer produces different results with excuses of "that was a demo" or "that ad is a mistake". I actually went to a dealer and talked with them about buying one. 103k drive away, not negotiable and no test drives available due to lack of cars.

Went to a few dealers talked prices with them same general story with some upto 107k.

Believe me or not doesn't bother me one bit, but don't pretend the gts and gtf are remotely the same price because my actual buying experience says otherwise.

* prices based on cheapest offered from both camps, 86k ford 103k holden new for new, demo cars can be had cheaper for sure.

I don't doubt that a couple months you got told prices like that from a few dealerships but I find it a little hard to believe that all the cars advertised on carsales at the driveaway prices stated are mistakes etc.

[SensationFG8]

I didn't say all mistakes, I said demo or mistake were the responses...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I don't doubt that a couple months you got told prices like that from a few dealerships but I find it a little hard to believe that all the cars advertised on carsales at the driveaway prices stated are mistakes etc.

Well maybe you could go buy one and get the facts straight for all of us that havnt actually done what sensationfg8 has.....instead of going on and on like some others hear about prices of cars they think they know anything about!

Unless anyone here has actually checked the facts.....then all I'm hearing is dribble.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Well maybe you could go buy one and get the facts straight for all of us that havnt actually done what sensationfg8 has.....instead of going on and on like some others hear about prices of cars they think they know anything about!

Unless anyone here has actually checked the facts.....then all I'm hearing is dribble.

I don't have enough space or enough cash to have 3 cars at the moment lol I guess the easiest way to get the facts is to make a few enquiries and see what's up, I will keep you posted.

[BHDOGS]

you really will go out of your way to defend this car its becoming sad

[Chopped]

The dollar factor is a bit redundant anyway. You could get a cheap BA turbo, trick it up and blitz both of them down the 1/4 mile for less than half the money.
That's if you are interested about saving some dosh....

[BHDOGS]

The dollar factor is as redundant as the track numbers as are the dyno numbers as are the fact these cars are the last and 90 percent of australia really doesnt give two ***** about either of them. But thats not the point you pick whatever wins you the argment and go hard on it becoz winning is everything.

[devoGT]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I don't have enough space or enough cash to have 3 cars at the moment lol I guess the easiest way to get the facts is to make a few enquiries and see what's up, I will keep you posted.

Just have a look at the HSV forum, the GTS are being bought for low 90's driveaway the cheapest new one was bought for high 80's. And they are getting cheaper as stock piles build up and the dealers can't move them.

If you go into a dealership and they don't think you are serious buyer or know the current pricing of course they will high ball you. You can't expect the dealer to give you the best price straight off the bat, you have to play the game and 'negotiate' and make an offer, if you are not prepared to do this then to them you are just another 'tyre kicker'.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by 701let

Exactly. 17k isn't a lot when you look at what else you get. I mean what would the brakes alone be worth on a gts?

Probably about a grand I think between Brembos and AP, perhaps a bit more to upgrade to two piece rotors.

Don't think that's where the money's gone....

[SensationFG8]

Again you talking new or demo? There was also no stock build up, one dealer had one car, the others had none.

I spent some time talking to them about their best price for a brand new car to be built. No tyre kicking here I was a buyer. Again I base what I'm saying on my own experience going into dealers as a buyer. If someone buys an ex demo car for 88k that's not the same as a build to order brand new car. One has been thrashed the other has not.

[devoGT]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Again you talking new or demo? There was also no stock build up, one dealer had one car, the others had none.

I spent some time talking to them about their best price for a brand new car to be built. No tyre kicking here I was a buyer. Again I base what I'm saying on my own experience going into dealers as a buyer. If someone buys an ex demo car for 88k that's not the same as a build to order brand new car. One has been thrashed the other has not.

I'm talking new for $88K was the cheapest, low 90's is what they are going for. As was mentioned earlier they are all over carsales.com for $95K driveaway that is without even negotiating.

Have look at the HSV and LS1 forums for current pricing. Believe me there are a lot more GTSs sitting in car yards then what you see on carsales.com as HSV won't allow the dealers to list all their stock on that site.

That is the problem with HSV they build more than the dealers can sell and stock piles build up and the dealers are left with trying to move them which results in heavy discounting.

Edit: just had a look at carsales.com there are 121 new VF GTS listed for sale, cheapest being 93K driveaway.

[SensationFG8]

I'd rather not goto those forums. Prefer to stick to the forum that relates to the car I like.

The car sales thing was addressed above and yes one of the dealers I went to had a 95k ad. There was no stock I could see. Not sure where this build up was hidden but it wasn't on the lot.

I guess if the 88k thing is true though that means the market says these gts' really aren't all that great! Almost 17k discounts this early doesn't bode well for hsv resale.

Edit: I guess it also means the market has decided the gtf is a lot better car given the price some are selling for. Poor hsv can't keep up in power or market value. But they have all the toys!!

[hootar]

Originally Posted by devoGT

Have look at the HSV and LS1 forums for current pricing.

No offence but Why would I go onto a Hsv forum. I'm not interested in trolling or their products!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by hootar

No offence but Why would I go onto a Hsv forum.

It's just a website, not the Blue Oyster Club... what's the worst that could happen, seriously

[SensationFG8]

The worst that could happen is we post constant rubbish about how much better ford is than holden and how crap holdens are to people who aren't really interested in hearing it.

Out of respect I'd personally prefer the holden boys enjoy their cars and their forums.

[hootar]

Originally Posted by b0son

It's just a website, not the Blue Oyster Club... what's the worst that could happen, seriously

I dont think ya read the second part of what I wrote. I'm not interested in trolling Hsv forums and I'm not interested in their products.

I thought the main reason for forums was to go onto them to learn about the products of topic. Not slag the product at every opportunity.

I unlike a few others on this web site am not interested in stirring up ***** to get my kicks for the day. I have enough respect for the red boys to leave them to their own toys.

I think of it this way. I wouldn't go into someone's house and tell them that its crap and they are *******. But if someone was rude enough to come into my house carring on then I would then have something to say.

I just suppose there are some sad people in this world who like to carry on behind a key board and think they are funny when in reality they are just probably sad individuals looking for some attention.

The rest of us like to enjoy what we have and share that with others who have similar interests.

[LoudPipes]

I agree with some of the posters this is a Ford Forum and therefore respect should be shown for the product.

In saying that there are differing degrees of love for the cars and members who also have their fingers in other pies.

And as a forum you’d expect members to banter and question and at the same time you’d expect them to play the comment and not the man.

If someone makes a point, expect someone to question it and when that happens back it up with fact not a dummy spit.

To be fair I’ve not really noticed anyone going full throttle to slag Ford’s, I tend to notice the threads break down when the rusted-ons show their inability to tolerate a train of thought that doesn’t totally reflect their own.

Remember, no product is perfect and you’d want members with differing opinions and issues with their cars to come forth, that helps the existing members and the Googler’s who are seeking answers to their own problems.

Saying something could be better is not saying you hate it, it’s saying it could be better.

Compare these two cars if you will but to fight over them is beyond my comprehension.

Both are the best thing to come out of Ford and Holden and there is but a bees dick between them, the rest is subjective to what particular features float your boat.

These are high end Fords and Holdens, give me one of each or just give me one, I won’t cry over the one I miss out on.

I only wish I could afford one.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by hootar

I dont think ya read the second part of what I wrote. I'm not interested in trolling Hsv forums and I'm not interested in their products.

You don't have to do either, but it is helpful if you want to weigh in the topic of pricing to have some factual basis for an opinion. If you can't be bothered, fine, but don't presume to second-guess the information put forward by those who have taken the time to find out.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by b0son

if you want to weigh in the topic of pricing to have some factual basis for an opinion. If you can't be bothered, fine, but don't presume to second-guess the information put forward by those who have taken the time to find out.

I have factual information that is no more or less real than that posted on the other forum, I went to dealers, I was on the market.

You cant possibly tell if someone really bought a GTS for high 80's based off a forum post. Likewise you cant tell if I'm telling the truth or not so I'm no more or less credible than someone on ls1.

I've gone and actually faced up at multiple dealerships looking to buy a brand new non demo GTS, 103k drive away was the cheapest price offered by any dealer (including dealers that had "new" cars on carsales for 93k).

The GTS is not a cheap vehicle, I don't think dealers are doing massive discounts on them, why would they?

[BLOHSV]

I got a price on both GTF and GTS and the GTF was $87k and the GTS was $95,700 with the GTS having a sunroof and it was in stock been on there lot for say 25 days basically it was an early June build and I went in there at the end of June not sure if that played a part with the price