Threatened with a fine for NOT having fog lights on

[aussiblue]

W.A Legislation is:
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/Fi...nElement<br />


Likely to mirror all other states inline with Australian uniform traffic code.
So it also seems headlights must go off if foglights are on.

Nothing requiring them to go on but I guess they could use the discretionary dangerous driving regs. to ping you.

Road Traffic Code 2000

183. Using fog lights
(1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with a front or rear fog light shall not operate the front or the rear fog light unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility.
Points: 1 Modified penalty: 2 PU
(2) In fog or mist or in hazardous weather conditions restricting visibility, the display of light from a front fog light or front fog lights is sufficient compliance with any obligation to display a light from a head light or head lights under regulation 182.
(3) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, displaying light from a single front fog light, unless 2 lit lights, complying with the requirements of the Vehicle Standards, are fitted to the front of the vehicle.
Points: 1 Modified penalty: 2 PU
(4) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle displaying light from a front fog light or front fog lights, if any other light of a power exceeding 7 watts and capable of showing a white light to the front is alight.
Points: 1 Modified penalty: 2 PU

[Vormund]

My 86 GT has driving lights where the fog lights would be on the GTS model. When you turn on the headlights the driving lights turn off. I'd be stuffed then wouldn't I? And what if you don't even have any foglights anyway? What a load of BS.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by silver_xe

For all you people that use their fog lights in all conditions, Have some thought for other motorists and Motorcyclists. As a Motorcyclist i find Fog lights extremely dangerous at night as they ARE Distracting and usually are not aimed to the side or downwards. How would you feel if i had my high beam on you? I Accept the fact that as a motorcyclist i have less protection than in a car but i should not have to be endangered by arrogant assholes driving around with fog lights on when not required. And in all seriousness when it comes to the extra visibility of the fog light, What is that going to achieve?? The short amount of time you would have to react with the extra light they provide is next to no use at all. Once again have some consideration for other motorists, there is a reason why they are illegal to have on when the conditions don't require them!

What about motorcyclists that ride with high beam on 24/7?
Not a big deal during the day, but at night it's extremely dangerous. Worse than fog lights.

On topic
Last time I looked at road rules it said fog lights can only be used in adverse weather conditions. Some people probably have different definitions on what adverse weather is.
I once new someone who used fog lights every night. He said to him night time is adverse weather

[silver_xe]

Well i can honestly say i have not come across that, And lets be realistic every bloody fifth car on the road at night these days seems to be driving with them fog lights on. I am not condoning the riders for doing that either, that too is illegal, rude and outright frigging inconsiderate!

[mattrobbo26]

I've tested the difference between having fog lights on with headlights at night and off with headlights on at night and it makes little to no difference in lighting up the sides of the road.

[raband]

I know when I drive with my fog lights on (properly aligned, still stock) I get the odd occasional oncoming car flash me.

Without them I on don't.

So yeah - fog lights on do annoy oncoming drivers - not all, but some.

[commonrails]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I fail to see how anyone could be 'startled' by fg fog lights..., I've seen candles with more light output than those things.

The masses that use them with HID conversions.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by silver_xe

Well i can honestly say i have not come across that, And lets be realistic every bloody fifth car on the road at night these days seems to be driving with them fog lights on. I am not condoning the riders for doing that either, that too is illegal, rude and outright frigging inconsiderate!

Depends where you live I guess.
4 years ago in Newcastle it seamed every 3rd car with fog lights fitted would have them on.
These days less cars have fog lights on even though more modern cars probably have them.
I still noticed Thursday night is when most cars have them on. It must be foggy every Thursday in Newcastle. But I know the real reason why it's Thursday when they are all on.

As for bikes with high beam I reckon it used to be about a quarter of riders would ride with high beam on. Now it might be a little less common. Or I just stopped taking notice.

[xtremerus]

FG fogs that I come across don't seam to dazzle me.
The ones that dazzle me are SUVs. They are a lot higher from the road than the FG.
If not adjusted down accordingly, they can dazzle you.

[AndyXR6T]

Damn aeroplanes in the sky with flashing lights on the wings...

[mattrobbo26]

Last night with in a 30km distance on the Hume highway not a breath of fog in sight the missus and I counted 104 cars with fog lights on. If the government wants more revenue that equals $14,664 worth of fines.

[Jaxon]

This Is an argument for Poorly adjusted lights. I don't get upset when I see a car with fog lights on. Why should I? When lights aren't aligned properly and blind you then yes. Be it cars with HIDs or Fogs light that aren't pointing down.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Stupid question, but aren't the lights on the front of the BA+ Series Drivers Lights?
I always thought Fog Lights to have a yellow lens because white light reflects back off the fog, and Drivers Lights to aid in side visibility close to the front sides of the car when driving at night.

If the lights only turn on when you have both the switch on and the headlights on high beam, they are driving lights. If you can turn them on without high beam, they re foglights. Colour of the lens doesn't matter.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by mattrobbo26

Last night with in a 30km distance on the Hume highway not a breath of fog in sight the missus and I counted 104 cars with fog lights on. If the government wants more revenue that equals $14,664 worth of fines.

Must have been one boring bloody trip

[aussiblue]

I addition: Road Traffic (Vehicle Standards) Rules 2002

http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/FileStore.nsf/Documents/MRDocument:23719P/$FILE/Road%20Traffic%20(Vehicle%20Standards)%20Rules%202 002%20-%20[01-b0-03].pdf?OpenElement

99. Front fog lights
(1) A pair of front fog lights may be fitted to a motor vehicle with 4 or more wheels.
(2) A pair of front fog lights or a single front fog light may be fitted to a motor bike or motor trike.
(3) A pair of front fog lights fitted to a motor vehicle with 4 or more wheels must have the centre of each light not over 400 mm from the nearer side of the vehicle unless the centres of the lights are at least 600 mm apart.
(4) If the top of the front fog light is higher than the top of any low-beam headlight on the vehicle, the centre of the fog light must not be higher than the centre of the low-beam headlight.
(5) A front fog light must —
(a) when on —
(i) project white or yellow light in front of the
vehicle;
and be able to be operated independently of any headlight;
and
(c) be fitted so the light from it does not reflect off the vehicle into the driver’s eyes.

Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

79. Daytime running lights
(1) A pair of daytime running lights may be fitted to a motor vehicle.
(2) A pair of daytime running lights fitted to a vehicle with 4 or more wheels must be fitted with the centre of each light —
(a) at least 600 mm from the centre of the other light; and
(b) not over 510 mm from the nearer side of the vehicle.
(3) However, a pair of daytime running lights fitted to a motor vehicle under 1300 mm wide may be fitted with the centre of each light not under 400 mm from the centre of the other light.
Location of daytime running lights on a vehicle
(4) When on, a daytime running light must —
(a) show a white or yellow light visible from the front of the vehicle; and
(b) not use over 25 watts power.
(5) Daytime running lights must be wired so they are off when a headlight, except a headlight being used as a flashing signal, is on.

[silver_xe]

The Great wall vehicles are probably the worst fog/driving lights I have came across so far. They are very bright and poorly adjusted (seem to shine straight into your face when oncoming).

[EgoFG]

IMHO, when fron facing fog lights are aimed down, and the road is wet, they are just as bad as being aimed incorrectly.

I fully support the law (NSW) that says turn them off if another car is within 300m.

I believe that the ADR should be changed to only allow them on as an alternative to headlights, unless you are on highbeam (I thought it used to read this way .. or at least that British cars did this).

And the rear ones - Please just shoot people that have these on in anything less than pea soup !! - They make the brake light LESS VISIBLE !

[chrisandsharon]

Every second car getting around now drives with their fog lights on, there are more driving with them on than without. Personally I don't have a problem with fog lights if they are adjusted properly.

My biggest gripe is the HID conversion kits, most of the ones I have come across are blinding. It's great to see more vehicles coming out now with adjustable head lights. We have them on our loan car, around town at night I adjust them down, if we head out of town I'll adjust them up.

HIDs are old news now anyway. I see BMW are going laser with their high beams on some models ....100 times brighter than LED but have an auto dim feature so they don't blind on coming traffic.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You'd be one of the very very few that have them aimed like that...

The staggeringly vast majority have them with obviously replaced much brighter bulbs, and have obviously tried to make them aim straight ahead like spotlights. They blind the hell out of you. Very annoying.

Yeah thats plain retarded and the police surely can use their own discretion.....as fog lights are NOT meant to shine UP like spot lights.....same as turning your high beams on in fog, it actually makes your vision worse as the light shines directly of the fog and blinds you. They're designed to shine down and illuminate the road.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by mattrobbo26

I've tested the difference between having fog lights on with headlights at night and off with headlights on at night and it makes little to no difference in lighting up the sides of the road.

Then yours are NOT aimed correctly because they are supposed to aim below low beam directly onto the road! Correct fog lights will not interfear with oncoming traffics vision. They were initially outlawed due to the distraction factor. That has OBVIOUSLY been render mute these days with drls!

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Correct fog lights will not interfear with oncoming traffics vision.

Unless the road surface is wet (ie reflective) !

Again - the law says 'off' if a car (oncoming or ahead) is within 300m ... please just do it !

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Stupid question, but aren't the lights on the front of the BA+ Series Drivers Lights?.

i don't know, i don't use them

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Unless the road surface is wet (ie reflective) !

That can happen with low beam headlights as well.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Ben73

That can happen with low beam headlights as well.

Certainly can and head lights are brighter then fog lights.
Fog lights were initially banned because they distract people while driving! NOT because they BLIND or REFLECT into oncoming traffic(high beam) That's just naive of the facts.
That's why it's an ancient law. DRLS distract people about a billion times more...and every car has differing amount/shape/brightness of their DRLS.

It's certainly a law that needs an overhaul.....but while it's a minor cash cow....i wouldn't hold my breath!

[EgoFG]

I think I agree with you, but some clarification:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Certainly can and head lights are brighter then fog lights.

The regs seem to be hard to understand in this area - it is about how much light is emitted and where. There appears to be no distinction as to the type of light, rather the total combined output.
From my experience, most cars that have fog lights on on a clear night - the Fog light appears brighter than the low beam.

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Fog lights were initially banned because they distract people while driving!

I will bow to your knowledge of history - my recollection from when I was younger is that there was no distinction in NSW between a Fog Light and a Driving light - and so these had to be turned off within 200m of another car.

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

NOT because they BLIND or REFLECT into oncoming traffic(high beam)

The current offense in NSW is worded "Use/allow use of light on/in vehicle likely/to dazzle" http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/in...archfor=lights

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

That's just naive of the facts.
That's why it's an ancient law. DRLS distract people about a billion times more...and every car has differing amount/shape/brightness of their DRLS.

It's certainly a law that needs an overhaul.....but while it's a minor cash cow....i wouldn't hold my breath!

Per my comment above, if the DRL dazzles then it too would be cause for an infringement notice.

But I kinda don't align with the last few points: - This change to the law is relatively new (2008?), and is written (as are the ADRs) to be about the amount of light produced and where it shines - not the technology used in the light.

I reckon that hardly anyone gets fined for using Fog Lights inappropriately (Rule 219) - the law is not specific enough to allow police to make an objective call - I don't think they would have recovered the cost of the ink in adding that law !

Personally I think the old way was better - Only low beam and parkers when within 200m of another vehicle.

[MercurySilver]

lol at could be fined for NOT using fog lights
absolute joke really

[V8 fan]

Nice to see we're not the only ones with road patrol that are unreasonable. After driving 1100 km passing many cops I got stopped by NZ most astute police officer no not for speeding and no not for driving dangerously but to ask where my front number plate was when I explained that this is the last GTP imported into NZ and it was going home to be parked up ( little white lie ) to be added to my car collection and liked the clean look with out the plate he just started to go off. Taking photos and demanding I fit the plate. I said the plate was freighted back with the original factory wheels. Things got worse. When I told him I had spoken to my local police and they said it would not bother them. Things got worse. By this stage he's trothing at the mouth telling me what the law states and asking when will I be fitting the plate I said never. So he gave me a fine for $150 and twenty demerits after saying that was cheep for not putting holes in my car and thanking him for his awesome work on road safety I left with him stamping his feet.

[joolz]

I fail to see how low beam would startle oncoming traffic in fog. Fog lights simply allow the driver better vision other than high or low beam. Sounds like the police officer has no idea or just trying to pull your strings...Next time take down his badge number and name. Just for yours and our future reference..

[1TUFFUTE]

See that's why neons were banned....because they distract other drivers.

There are very precise regulations for placement of both fog lights and drls now.

How anyone can be "dazzled" by fog lights in nighttime, or DAYTIME is beyond me! Actually it's not....they would simply have to be aimed UP.....therefore incorrectly installed and would gain zero benifit driving in actual fog!

Most laws allow plenty of room for officers to either be reasonable or unreasonable in most situations.

[1TUFFUTE]

I forgot to mention on the DRL topic. My father inlaw nearly rear ended another car today when he was taking me to pick up my car. He was asking what the bright strips of lights were on the car behind us. A new Hyundai with DRLs

That's a real life eg of being distracted by DRLs.