Tax the rich?

[Franco Cozzo]

The problem with the dole is that its geared the wrong way, and there is this bullshit called job network providers (The Howard Government started this scam) who sign you up and are supposed to help you look for work you get assessed and put into streams, 1 through to 4.

Stream 1 you are deemed as short term unemployed so the government won't allocate any resources to these "job network providers" to help you find a job, you're on your own but the network provider puts you on the books. I believe its $11 the government allocates to them so you can use the phone or internet there.

Stream 2 is where they start helping you look for a job, they'll out your name out there with their contacts etc.

Stream 3 is you might get some resources allocated to put you through training

Stream 4 is druggoes/alcoholics and homeless people, they get all the resources put into them such as training etc.

Job network providers are a scam, they just want you on the books to get money from the government, half of them out there don't give a **** about you and just want you on the books to get kickbacks from the government, or will try get a cut out of you when you find a job.

Effectively the government is putting the most resources into druggoes and alcoholics, they get all the training from the tax payer, the people who most likely don't want to work, it should be the other way around.

Someone I knew, dole bludging druggo got put through Cert III in warehousing on behalf of the tax payer and put through fork lift training on your behalf too and he doesn't even want work, so go figure.

Me or you, would get nothing.

Me for example:

No government subsidies on anything under diploma level courses because I'm currently doing a diploma (which is no longer subsides by government so full fee again), full fee for me, cost me $2500 last year for a 10 day course which was a Cert IV.

Not eligable for traineeship positions because I've got a qualification already, so I'm off the books right away for trainee positions with companies as they don't get government subsidy for me.

Not enough experience to get into a position with my Cert IV.

Not enough experience during my apprenticeship to be employed as my trade in a normal workshop, specialised area is all I did.

I'm 22, how do you think some 50 year old manufacturing worker with no qualifications, who has been working at Ford/Holden for the last 30 years is going to go with finding work in another field?

So far I've been too old (traineeship wanted recent school leaver) and too young (not enough experience) for two jobs.

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by Jallopy

First... anyone who receives a payment / pension from the govt will be on a register that anyone can view online.

It will have Name, age, sex, address and type of pension being received.


.

That's a terrible, terrible idea.

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Effectively the government is putting the most resources into druggoes and alcoholics, they get all the training from the tax payer, the people who most likely don't want to work, it should be the other way around.

Someone I knew, dole bludging druggo got put through Cert III in warehousing on behalf of the tax payer and put through fork lift training on your behalf too and he doesn't even want work, so go figure.

I agree that it's bad and needs amending. However, these people need the most help. The problem runs deeper than just drugs and alcohol, a lot of these people have some deep psychological problems, which isn't just a state of mind, but physically the brain can begin to change too.

[Pub247]

I've always been skeptical of job agencies there seems to be money made there where there shouldnt be


There is a need to improve welfare benefits not just to weed out the abuser but to make the system fare and equitable.

There is also money to be saved this way including in centerlink.

If anyone has dealt with centrelink would know they are the biggest bunch of uselss ****s ever. Seriously how do these people get employed? and they have a say on what your receive to from the goverment?

I am a single income family with a 4 year child. We got a our FTB cut off and were told we had a massive debt because supposebly i am not the father of my child and the real father is the missus ex boyfriend who has been dead since before she was born like WTF???

Lets not forget all the evidence and proof marrital status and payslips you have to provide week in week out.

Seriously they (by 2 different people) told my partner she couldn't report my income as the total from my payslip she had to work out how many hours i worked in a fortnight then multiply it by my pay rate per hour.

Like isn't that the same ******* thing???

[Franco Cozzo]

Centrelink staff problems is because of their lack of training, the only people who know whats going on are the older ones who have been there for years before they got computers, they know all the calculations manually and will pick up on mistakes in the computer system.

All they have to do is put something wrong in the computer and peoples payments get cut off and it turns into a wild goose chase.

I guess thats with everywhere, no one wants to train people up anymore.

How ****** Centrelink is now, times it by 10 when they start letting go of front line customer service staff with federal government cutbacks.

What makes me laugh is I've never heard of a company or agency thats so universily hated by everyone who has dealt with them, except maybe Procomp LOL.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Why is this in the car talk section?

I'm fed up with politics, they're all the same -hopeless, and try to not think about it as nothing anyone says helps; it just gets more depressing. Which is why I'd rather talk about cars here.

Ordinarily I'd agree Silver, but the actions of govco since the election need greater scrutiny and discussion than ever. Their actions have transcended ordinary politics and are threatening the fabric of the nation.

[2011G6E]

I love the way they're attempting to create a divide in society, by portraying anyone making above a certain wage as a "rich fat cat".

They forget that plenty of people making from $80,000 up to about $150,000 have never sat in a comfy office in their life. Plenty of miners out here make that amount, train drivers out here all make pay in that range. If you study hard, put the effort in, and are prepared to move around a bit, you can make that sort of money.

The stereotype that the media and the government seems to be pushing is that people making that level of money are "the rich" and are "fat cats" and are working in industries where they are ripping off and preying on the underprivileged like vultures. They demonise them and this allows them to do stuff like make them pay more taxes.

The thing is, we pay a huge amount of tax already and can't access any of the government benefits that our taxes go towards. I paid over $36,000 in tax last year, and sometimes wonder how many families I'm supporting where the breadwinner refuses to, well, win any bread.

[Focused]

Originally Posted by Starlightblue

Tax the churches and all religions

Problem fixed

Why should they get a free ride?

You mean like the Salvos and St Vinnies? 23 of Australia's largest 25 charities are Christian so if they're all going to get tougher tax restrictions, who's going to look after the less fortunate?
Centrelink and the public heath care system (the latter of which is also partially funded by the Catholic church)...?
It's all well and good bagging them out for big buildings and gold chairs, but in the end of the day, they're the only people doing anything. When was the last time anyone where volunteered their time at a soup kitchen?
*Note I'm not Catholic.

Ohhh I can see this thread being closed shortly.

Is it not right and proper that those of us who do well pay our share to help out those less fortunate?

It really pees me off to see how mean spirited this country is becoming. And the more easy people are doing it the more mean spirited they get it seems.

I had a friend recently, a good hard working woman in the country, she got sick through no fault of her own, she was flown from Broken Hill to Adelaide for treatment etc. without no real out of pocket costs.

I put up a friend of mine who has come down with crippling arthritis due to some weird infection that all manner of drugs has failed to treat, he lived in a caravan with his dogs at the top of my hill largely shooting rabbit and deer to feed him and his two dogs. He had no welfare at all, I basically forced him after two years of getting no benefits to get advice on how to wind up his business so he can get access to disability etc. He now finally is on disability and getting some support.

Things like this make me proud to be in Australia.

I'd mostly agree although some reforms are needed to the dole and the DSP. I work in the health care system and some people's reasons for being on the DSP are not only bad for the country (costs money) but they're also bad for the patient because they could easily work and the sense of achievement and independence would do far more for their mood problem than a tablet. Therapeutic 'forced-to-work' would genuinely be beneficial for a lot of people on the DSP with minor mental health problems. Unfortunately some dodgy psychiatrists and GPs sign anything...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The thing is, we pay a huge amount of tax already and can't access any of the government benefits that our taxes go towards. I paid over $36,000 in tax last year, and sometimes wonder how many families I'm supporting where the breadwinner refuses to, well, win any bread.

See, they don't go winning their bread because they think they are entitled to it (and the 55" LCD TV, the Foxtel subscription and the latest mobile phone). Having said that, govco is wholly responsible for the entitlement mentality prevalent in society. They created it with the expansion of the welfare programs in the latter part of the 20th century. It doesn't excuse them (the bludgers) for their behaviour though.

[BHDOGS]

As usual class warfare already erupts it's not us rich people it's the poor lazy people it's not us it's the rich people refusing to pay tax this is why nothing ever changes it's the politicians to focus on not each other

[Focused]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

See, they don't go winning their bread because they think they are entitled to it (and the 55" LCD TV, the Foxtel subscription and the latest mobile phone). Having said that, govco is wholly responsible for the entitlement mentality prevalent in society. They created it with the expansion of the welfare programs in the latter part of the 20th century. It doesn't excuse them (the bludgers) for their behaviour though.

It's also the fault of my parent's generation (aged between 40-70) who let their kids live at home, pay no board, do nothing but spend money on themselves. I'm amazed at how many of my friends are in their mid/late-20s, still living at home so have barely any bills (no rent, power, internet, water) and their entire income is spent on themselves. And their parent's don't do anything about this. *shakes head*
Yes the government seem to have overdone some of the middle-class welfare, but a lot of the blame should be directed at individual parents who have failed to teach their kids any financial sense whatsoever.

[Franco Cozzo]

Don't worry, NSW's ICAC seems to be taking down a few politicians as it is, lots of politicians have come into their sights in the last few weeks.

Maybe its what the whole game needs, forgot royal comission into unions, maybe royal comission into corrupt policiticans, tax evading business and corporate corruption?

I guess there would be many vacant positions for legitimate politicians to fill up afterwards.

[BHDOGS]

The answers simple tax rich people more, close loop holes like negative gearing and super loop holes which are a crock of **** and crack down on lazy centerlink ****s budget solved unfortunately no government has the balls to do any of it just tinker with the edges while Rome burns

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Focused

It's also the fault of my parent's generation (aged between 40-70) who let their kids live at home, pay no board, do nothing but spend money on themselves. I'm amazed at how many of my friends are in their mid/late-20s, still living at home so have barely any bills (no rent, power, internet, water) and their entire income is spent on themselves. And their parent's don't do anything about this. *shakes head*
Yes the government seem to have overdone some of the middle-class welfare, but a lot of the blame should be directed at individual parents who have failed to teach their kids any financial sense whatsoever.

I don't think that the kids staying at home into their 20's is a problem. Sure they may lack financial sense (well some of them anyway), but they are working and earning money.

The living at home mindset is the norm in southern European communities, simply because it was advantageous to live together and pool their resources and abilities to help the family as a whole. It continues today because the advantage is still there. The parents worked themselves into the ground to ensure their kids didn't have to struggle like they did. Why, because the family unit was valued far more than it was in Anglo-Saxon communities.

In a sense, those bemoaning the stay at home kids are doing so simply due to sour grapes that they didn't have the same opportunity afforded to them.

[2011G6E]

I saw a statement somewhere a while ago from a stereotypical "rich fat cat" who said "poor people never created a job for anyone".

I would kind of beg to differ, given the massive manpower needed to run Centerlink and other social services.

Churches and religions...don't get me fricking started. They pay no tax, no income tax, no council land rates or other charges that everyone else has to. They are accountable to no one in the actual amount they spend on "charitable activities".
It's just not on...make them pay tax like everyone else. Especially so if they want to have a say in government decisions as they so often do. Pay the entry price like the rest of us...

[MattstaF6]

Originally Posted by Focused

It's also the fault of my parent's generation (aged between 40-70) who let their kids live at home, pay no board, do nothing but spend money on themselves. I'm amazed at how many of my friends are in their mid/late-20s, still living at home so have barely any bills (no rent, power, internet, water) and their entire income is spent on themselves. And their parent's don't do anything about this. *shakes head*
Yes the government seem to have overdone some of the middle-class welfare, but a lot of the blame should be directed at individual parents who have failed to teach their kids any financial sense whatsoever.

Sorry mate but I fail to see what that has to do with anything. I could say the opposite and say that people who move out and are renting and causing house prices to go up as people are prepared to pay more for a home because they will get help paying it off.

[woteva]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I agree with this, but the problem is govco receive a nice cut from booze and tobacco sales and its those ones you describe of that are the biggest spenders of such vices, i.e. reap the most profit from. Implement this kind of scheme and you will find it will be bought out by those industries to NOT come into fruition for said reasons.

Money talks in this system. Anything can be canned....for a price.

Government already have a system in place. Most of the indigenous population who are on benefits get their money via a 'Basics card'. Just like an eftpos card but can't purchase things such as Tobacca, Alcohol or gambling etc. They could apply it more widely I think.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/cust...ent/basicscard

Originally Posted by MattstaF6

Sorry mate but I fail to see what that has to do with anything. I could say the opposite and say that people who move out and are renting and causing house prices to go up as people are prepared to pay more for a home because they will get help paying it off.

Yeah me either. You still pay tax and what not. Not sure how it is relevant.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by woteva

Government already have a system in place. Most of the indigenous population who are on benefits get their money via a 'Basics card'. Just like an eftpos card but can't purchase things such as Tobacca, Alcohol or gambling etc. They could apply it more widely I think.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/cust...ent/basicscard

Im all for it, Im just sceptical & cynical because I believe the alcohol and tobacco industry is too rich and powerful to let this happen if it meant a reduction in profits, especially if it meant that govco was to get a reduction of their hand outs from it too.

Plus I reckon if this did happen, govco would rort (tax) other areas of need heavier to help compensate for the shortfall in tobacco/alcohol sales.

[Starlightblue]

[QUOTE=Focused;5087975]You mean like the Salvos and St Vinnies? 23 of Australia's largest 25 charities are Christian so if they're all going to get tougher tax restrictions, who's going to look after the less fortunate?
Centrelink and the public heath care system (the latter of which is also partially funded by the Catholic church)...?
It's all well and good bagging them out for big buildings and gold chairs, but in the end of the day, they're the only people doing anything. When was the last time anyone where volunteered their time at a soup kitchen?
*Note I'm not Catholic.



No not talking about salvos etc.

Im talking about the ministers driving BMWs and G6E turbos that change them over every 3 years tax free. I'm talking about the churches and mosques that are the size of Shopping centres. Really looks like they are struggling like the rest of us.......not

We could use some of the taxed monies for the soup kitchen

[woteva]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Im all for it, Im just sceptical & cynical because I believe the alcohol and tobacco industry is too rich and powerful to let this happen if it meant a reduction in profits, especially if it meant that govco was to get a reduction of their hand outs from it too.

Plus I reckon if this did happen, govco would rort (tax) other areas of need heavier to help compensate for the shortfall in tobacco/alcohol sales.

Yeah I see your point. If the government loses revenue anywhere they'll go looking for it somewhere else. Personally I think middle class welfare needs to be drastically slashed!

[commonrails]

Implement a 1% transaction tax on all transactions, the Australian Government would have so much money they wouldn't know what to do with it and could remove all other taxes.

[monte.b]

I think one of the silly ideas is extending the pension age to 70 ,i just cant figure where they are going to make money out of that ,lets face it, all the tradesmen and laborers will be worn out by the time they turn 65 and then go onto a disability pension ,so where is the savings ,do they think everybody works in an office pushing buttons all day and not only that but they will get more money on the disability pension .The other thing i dont like is the paid parental rubbish ,nobody paid us to have 4 kids and educate them ,if people cant afford kids ,dont have any ,why should i have to pay other people to have babies ,as it is at the moment and abbots idea is worse ,tax companies to pay people to have babies they cant afford ,stupid idea ,they need to cut out some of the federal depts that they already have in the states ,why have a fed education dept with 3000 people that dont teach anybody anything and achieve nothing ,they have no schools ,no teachers ,just a lot of bums sitting around a computer all day drinking coffee .I do agree that the people on welfare need to be tightened up a bit ,lots of young blokes here on the dole and there is jobs if you want one .Maybe also they need to bring out random alcohol and drug tests for these people as we have at our workplace ,they cant work if they are stoned or ****ed all day

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I love the way they're attempting to create a divide in society, by portraying anyone making above a certain wage as a "rich fat cat".

They forget that plenty of people making from $80,000 up to about $150,000 have never sat in a comfy office in their life. Plenty of miners out here make that amount, train drivers out here all make pay in that range. If you study hard, put the effort in, and are prepared to move around a bit, you can make that sort of money.

The stereotype that the media and the government seems to be pushing is that people making that level of money are "the rich" and are "fat cats" and are working in industries where they are ripping off and preying on the underprivileged like vultures. They demonise them and this allows them to do stuff like make them pay more taxes.

The thing is, we pay a huge amount of tax already and can't access any of the government benefits that our taxes go towards. I paid over $36,000 in tax last year, and sometimes wonder how many families I'm supporting where the breadwinner refuses to, well, win any bread.

total agree ..why is it that people making around $100k a year are so called millionaires
i started working away 12 years ago to try and get ahead and all i ever see is MOST of my money going out of my pocket to stupid ideas and dead beats who wont lift a finger to help themselves or who come to this country and take everything and don’t give back
i have been in the mining industry before the boom and my money went twice as far then . dam the same house brought back then in Perth 2003 was worth $250k is now worth nearly $600k (how can people afford a house working in the cities these days).. No wonder kids are staying at home as they cant afford to buy a house and rent is too high

cost of living has doubled, bills have doubled if not tripled but my wages haven’t gone up by much since i started 12 years ago. Dam i wish they would have doubled like everything else
my private health cover for family has gone from $250 a month to $380 a month which i HAVE to take out or i am stung even more, an now they talking about not getting any Medicare but i will still have to pay for it..
i have missed out on so much working away over the years doing everything from 6 weeks 1 week off for 2 years to what i do now 9 days on 5 off so i can be home every 2nd weekend (all of those years working days were 12 hours days)
the only time i ever got a tax break was when John ran the country and all was good. yes it was a good times but the Rudd and Gil govs stuffed it big time by spending way more than they should have on crap instead of infrastructure , now we have to pay the price
yes people will say well that’s your choice to work away and miss out on things as i have been away working but i do it to try set my family up
i still have bills like everyone else and i don't want to have to pay a mortgage for 30 years (dam i will be 68yr old then) so nearly all my money goes into that and bills to run the house , yes I’m luckier than most but i just don't know how most of you get by only living on 1 wage while the wife and kids are at home and you need to pay your mortgage and bills
i don't mind paying tax, its when i have to pay for every other useless ***** to sit on his butt not looking for work or just expecting everyone else to pay their way in life
and pollies who don't take a pay cut but will tax everyone else, WTF is up with that
seems to me the more you try the more they take off you because you make around $100k and you rolling in money
just feel sorry for the people who make under as its going to hit them hard
looks like the only people winning out there are the big 4 banks and the mining companies


and then we get stung more in WA as we pay most of the GST but now we only get back stuff all now so the state taxes go up also and cut back to try and make up for the short fall

[danzvtil]

All this finger pointing and carry on makes me sick. Here are a few points:
Our current financial situation is made no better or worse by "religions and churches" (I have no affiliation BTW)
We have an ingrained culture of welfare dependence which doesn't stop at low socio economic suburbs
Our current financial situation is made no better or worse by refugees who "get every thing handed to them" (they don't)
Joe Hockey has to turn all the high income earners into "well to do/leeches/nasty people who don't pay their way" (which is absolute rubbish, they have a higher capacity to spend, meaning they pay more GST, creating jobs DUH)
You can promise the kids a pony but when you loose your job or take a pay cut, and cant buy one the kids carry on like spoilt brats (the electorate)
To borrow an economics analogy, the economy is a series of big levers, you want to pull on ALL of them a little bit rather than a few of them a lot.
Bottom line, we ALL need to receive LESS, and we ALL need to pay MORE to get out of the situation we find ourselves in.

[monte.b]

Well the labor party got us into this mess as they always do ,so why dont we send the bill to them ,its time our politicians took responsibility for their actions ,he he ,yep in know silly idea

[ford man xf]

Aren't these rich people the same ones that employ most of us?

Isn't income taxed on a progressive percentage basis?

Don't low income earners have a tax offset which means they pay less tax?

What is with Australians and complaining, how good do we have it in this country, the amazing lifestyle we have has to be paid for, people were more than happy to take the government handout Mr Rudd gave out, some even praised him as the greatest Prime Minister we've ever had, did you not think that one day this would have to be paid back? No such thing as a free lunch I'm afraid.

I do believe if your successful in a capitalist society like Australia you do have to do your bit to contribute, which rich people do, the more successful your company is then the more you contribute and this happens, yes there are loopholes, Kerry Packer had a good quote once on this.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Our current financial situation is made no better or worse by refugees who "get every thing handed to them" (they don't)

Have you got figures to back this up? There was a release not long ago with a figure that shocked a lot of people on how refugees are still on welfare after x amount of years, can't remember the figure though.

[2011G6E]

There are two big lies about the economy that the government is telling us all the time.
The first lie we are being told is that debt is bad.
The next big lie is that we should compare a country or state debt to your household budget.
Nope...when it comes to a country or a state, DEBT IS GOOD...you NEED to occasionally go into debt to build big projects or do things for your country. A country isn't a household...a household with a primary breadwinner or two has a finite working life before they retire so it's vitally important not to go into too much debt as you only have so much time of a decent income coming in to service that debt.
However, a nation or a state can access finance at low rates, paid off over several decades. Australia in fact still has a AAA credit rating because we are such a good risk for debt.

If you MUST compare a country or state to your household budget, then think of it this way: it's no use getting yourself to a point where you are "debt free" (maybe by cutting back on eating food or not paying your electricity bill so you sit in the dark and selling everything that isn't nailed down) when the house is falling down around you because you refuse to spend on repairs, and your kids are starving. Hey, you'll be "in surplus", but would you really want to live there...?

Getting and keeping a strong surplus means only one thing: either you're not spending enough on the country or state, or you're collecting TOO MUCH TAX.

Economists have also said that taxation returns to the government are increasing at 7% a year, but costs to the government are only increasing at 3% a year. If we cut back on the big promised funding (like the paid maternity leave and national disability scheme and other stuff) and did nothing, the debt would take care of itself in only a couple of years. That's if the government maintains what it's spending now, and just stops increases in spending on promised big funding projects for a couple of years.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well the labor party got us into this mess as they always do ,so why dont we send the bill to them ,its time our politicians took responsibility for their actions ,he he ,yep in know silly idea

Lol... No idea have you??

Why am I typing.................................

[flooded one]

Its all just an excuse for more money. that's all it is, greed. how about politicians take pay cuts if its that bad and stop needless spending on stupid ****!! Also something needs to be done about people/companies getting tax cuts when they can clearly afford to pay