"Holden just needs to pay normal wages and it won’t need [Govt] handouts"

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

And if Australians paid normal grocery prices (US Prices) and there was no fuel tax, and GST down to 2.5% perhaps workers wouldn't need such high wages either...

You failed to mention one of the lowest hourly pay rates in the USA is about $4.25 and hour. That certainly puts into perspective the low prices they have.
It's irrelevant what people in the USA pay as their wages reflect their economy.

Let's be honest, show me another economy that pays unskilled labour 60K per annum plus other benefits. The unions are driving manufacturing out of Australia demanding higher salaries for unskilled workers.

Looking at some of the commentary, it's very common for an employees to try and make their debts their employers problem.

[ford man xf]

Live this lifestyle and expect to pay higer taxes, it really is that simple.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Looking at some of the commentary, it's very common for an employees to try and make their debts their employers problem.

In the smash repair industry its horrible, quite often the employees are the ones that cop the brunt...


I'd hate to see the minimum wage dropped...

[BHDOGS]

In solidarity and to bring prices down for good the rest of Australia has agreed to the same wage cuts lmao not.

[jamies]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Not everyone follows that model.... there is more to a job than financial satisfaction.

This is true but no ones wants to be overworked and underpaid..

[Bossxr8]

Even tradies at Ford are only on about 80k and production workers in the low 50's. No one makes 100k bar higher level salaried positions.

If Bolt thinks they should take a 50% wage chop they would be at under minimum wage. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[FTE]

they need to protect the auto industry by limiting the number of imports that come into the country. Less imports = higher local sales.
But this won't happen because the consumer has become used to cheaper imports and larger range of manufacturer choice which has forced the decline in local sales and in turn loss of jobs.
I have bought several new cars all Holden Commodore based V8s so I do not know what I will buy once the local manufacturing is obsolete as nothing quickens the pulse more than a rear drive V8 to me. Turbo 4s and 6s although quick do not interest me at all.

I have been in mining for almost 20 years and where I work now has surprised me the most with attitude to money. We employed a lot of "green" people to industry and never have I seen people who earnt a fraction of what they do now demand more even though the first year hasn't yet finished.
To give an idea unskilled shift worker is upwards of $150k, 7 on 7 off.

[Jaxon]

Please don't give Bolt anymore thought. He is a troll for a tabloid news paper. Shock jock who plays on people's fears.

[Bowser22]

Originally Posted by cheap

Ok, so what are the correct facts and supply references...

Okay.
Vehicle builder with 5-7 years exp, Level 3B (pay rate N31) weekly salary $1,120.90, so what $60k p/a maybe a couple grand on top for specialist penalties (ala; crane operation, process control, extreme temps (55ºc+ engine cast house), etc. Most of which are under $1p/h loading whilst assigned to particular task.

It's all here my friend....
http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agre...a/AE894332.pdf

I hope you can find your sources of information and show us how you came up with your figures.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

I'd like to see politicians lose some of their salary. . . .

I'd like to see some of them earn it!

[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'd like to see some of them earn it!

Too true.

[UberKnee]

As others have mentioned, the problem is that everything in Australia is overpriced and wages have risen to compensate. Thats the reason Australia cant compete in a global market, we pay ridiculous prices for everything, granted we enjoy high wages but thats only because everything cost so much. Its a vicious and really irreversible cycle save for a huge economic downturn that cripples the country. The only other way would be for every person and every industry to agree to drop prices across the board and pull things in line. Make no mistake these cheap "evil" imports "stealing our jewbs" are still taxed to all hell, often with 50%+ put on top of what they would cost but they still come in far cheaper than anything produced in Australia because wages and materials here are all so high. Aussie manufacturing cant even compete with American manufacturing and the local car models are heavily based on their industry.

[XP6]

I betcha mr bolt wouldn't pull his own weeds up... does not know the value of physical labor. Im one of these factory workers who earn up to 80k dam sure mr bolt would poo himself within minutes doing my job, 12hr shifts only, dont get public holiday s off working in up too 75°c heat(thats ambient not localised)swinging sledgeys and jackhammers... not worth 80k be ******!

[prydey]

why do people expect their wage to automatically go up in line with the cost of living or inflation??

the money isn't an endless supply. it comes from the business, and if that business is facing the same rising costs, then demanding ever increasing wages is a sure fire way of putting yourself out of a job long term, esp if you are in an industry that isn't flourishing.

living within ones means doesn't seem to exist any more. everyone has to have the latest and greatest toys, the big house, the nice car etc etc.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Bowser22

Okay.
Vehicle builder with 5-7 years exp, Level 3B (pay rate N31) weekly salary $1,120.90, so what $60k p/a maybe a couple grand on top for specialist penalties (ala; crane operation, process control, extreme temps (55ºc+ engine cast house), etc. Most of which are under $1p/h loading whilst assigned to particular task.

It's all here my friend....
http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agre...a/AE894332.pdf

I hope you can find your sources of information and show us how you came up with your figures.

Awww Bowser ... you are a spoil sport... ya blew Cheap out of the water.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by XP6

I betcha mr bolt wouldn't pull his own weeds up... does not know the value of physical labor. Im one of these factory workers who earn up to 80k dam sure mr bolt would poo himself within minutes doing my job, 12hr shifts only, dont get public holiday s off working in up too 75°c heat(thats ambient not localised)swinging sledgeys and jackhammers... not worth 80k be ******!

Yes XP6. I bet Mr Bolt is on a nice tidy sum for his one eyed view of the world. It's no secret that he hates anything to do with the Labor Party, unionism, fairness for ordinary workers and the elderly, the disabled etc, etc. Why is it that these shock jocks on radio today are all so one eyed and walk heavily leaning to the extreme right? Oh ... that's right ... it's the policy of their employers.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by prydey

the money isn't an endless supply.

It has the potential to be and the more money is supplied, the less it is worth. The commodities that we want to buy with money are finite in supply and always will be, that's why the value of money declines in relation to money. That's what inflation is. It doesn't matter how much money is given to us, we can't all have everything we want. So anything that can be infinite in supply (currency, bitcoin, air, etc.), will never be a good financial investment. Finite commodities (gold, silver, oil) make good investments. Other finite commodities include land, materials, and labor. We have limited resources of pretty much everything. Currency can be an infinite digital number. The government could give everyone a trillion dollars if they wanted to. The problem is if everyone had a trillion dollars, would you work for a couple of months to build someone a house to make only a few thousand dollars in profits? No, your rate would go up. So would the rate for the people supplying you with materials and labor (inflation).

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If Bolt thinks they should take a 50% wage chop they would be at under minimum wage. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

This guy twists whatever he wants the way he wants. People lap it up.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by prydey

why do people expect their wage to automatically go up in line with the cost of living or inflation??

the money isn't an endless supply. it comes from the business,

I would have thought the money comes from the consumer, not from business.

[Gobes32]

So what is a fair wage? 50k a year? 40k? We need to work it out soon because a lot of companies are not willing to pay our "sky high" wages anymore.........

[ltd]

Seriously, some of you guys need lessons in basic comprehension.
Firstly, Andrew Bolt has copied and pasted and attributed what Grace Collier has written, so why all the vitriol towards Bolta? He's simply putting in to discussion what someone else has written.

Secondly, this relays to my first point but why has this now become a political left versus right thing? Granted Andrew Bolt is a self confessed conservative commentator but Grace Collier is from the very left Australian Financial Review which is owned by Fairfax.
Surely you should be directing your vitriol at Grace Collier, the man who wrote the opinion piece on what Holden should do in the first place?

Thirdly, after reading some of the ill informed and ridiculous comments based on an error in comprehension on this thread it is no wonder we ended up with a race riot on Australia Day a year ago; some are so dumb they could fall head first into a barrel full of titties and I reckon they would resurface sucking their thumbs.
Please guys, before venting hatred at someone please actually check the source. Your issue is with Grace Collier, not Andrew Bolt.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by ltd

Seriously, some of you guys need lessons in basic comprehension.
Firstly, Andrew Bolt has copied and pasted and attributed what Grace Collier has written, so why all the vitriol towards Bolta? He's simply putting in to discussion what someone else has written.

Secondly, this relays to my first point but why has this now become a political left versus right thing? Granted Andrew Bolt is a self confessed conservative commentator but Grace Collier is from the very left Australian Financial Review which is owned by Fairfax.
Surely you should be directing your vitriol at Grace Collier, the man who wrote the opinion piece on what Holden should do in the first place?

Thirdly, after reading some of the ill informed and ridiculous comments based on an error in comprehension on this thread it is no wonder we ended up with a race riot on Australia Day a year ago; some are so dumb they could fall head first into a barrel full of titties and I reckon they would resurface sucking their thumbs.
Please guys, before venting hatred at someone please actually check the source. Your issue is with Grace Collier, not Andrew Bolt.

Weren't you the one spruiking in another thread that Holden factory workers were on $120k a year? I would suggest you get your own facts right before trying to educate others.

[mcnews]

Bolt is just a shock jock in print, talking to the same ******* that listen to Alan Jones and his ilk.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

why do people expect their wage to automatically go up in line with the cost of living or inflation??

the money isn't an endless supply. it comes from the business, and if that business is facing the same rising costs, then demanding ever increasing wages is a sure fire way of putting yourself out of a job long term, esp if you are in an industry that isn't flourishing.

living within ones means doesn't seem to exist any more. everyone has to have the latest and greatest toys, the big house, the nice car etc etc.

I don't think every one expects their wages to go up automatically as wages are negotiated accordingly to EBA.

Naturally your living standards will start to decline if your wages do not rise in accordance with inflation, going by your scenario of not adjusting wages to inflation the rich will get richer & the poor will get poorer.

You cant blame wages only for demise of any business failing as there is many factors governing how well a business succeeds or fails.

As for your comment on every one living beyond their means well or I can say you obviously do not observe your surroundings as there are a lot of houses around that certainly don't look big & flashy, maybe you should do some volunteer work with the Salvos or vinnies etc to see the real picture of how people live.

[GK]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Yes XP6. I bet Mr Bolt is on a nice tidy sum for his one eyed view of the world. It's no secret that he hates anything to do with the Labor Party, unionism, fairness for ordinary workers and the elderly, the disabled etc, etc. Why is it that these shock jocks on radio today are all so one eyed and walk heavily leaning to the extreme right? Oh ... that's right ... it's the policy of their employers.

Then I suppose all of these crazy right leaning characters are balanced by the left leaning labour force of our taxpayer funded ABC, which is also the policy of those hiring ABC employees????

GK

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Even tradies at Ford are only on about 80k and production workers in the low 50's. No one makes 100k bar higher level salaried positions.

If Bolt thinks they should take a 50% wage chop they would be at under minimum wage. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

What sort of tradies are on $80K? Our auto elecs at work are on around mid 40s to low 50s max.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by stevz

Weren't you the one spruiking in another thread that Holden factory workers were on $120k a year? I would suggest you get your own facts right before trying to educate others.

Which is exactly the same information the Grace Collier has used to base his article upon, and he has his own sources giving him the same information.
Base salary 60-80K, overtime and bonuses bring that up to the range of $100-150K.
I myself have spoken to an ex Holden employee who worked at the Elizebeth plant 7 years ago, and I have seen his group certificate showing he was on a little over 110K. This included overtime and bonuses. You can disagree all you like and you'd be an idiot not to, as you didn't see the aforementioned certificate. But the fact is, there are several people who worked/work for Holden who are happy to let the information out as to how much they are/were paid. Sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "no it's not true, I am a mighty keyboard warrior loyalist who knows all" doesn't rebuke the information which has obviously ended up in the hands of someone like Grace Collier.

As recent evidence and borrowing patterns suggest, Holden has become a sheltered workshop of sorts for the union. Don't believe me? Don't care. The management cannot do a thing without union approval which is about as useful as the Qantas Sales Act. Ostensibly Holden harks back to the glory days where industrial action was more common place and when there was little competition by way of imports. It's very much like the Solo service stations that existed a while ago - and it's fate will be the same.
Despite yours and others obvious socialist ideals companies cannot exist when they spend more money than they make, and have to constantly borrow at interest without the ability to pay the loans back. Like socialism, eventually you run out of other peoples money, which is why Holden keep going to Govco to get more money to keep them going.

In spite of this, Ford has been grouped in the same arena as the taxpayer subsidised Holden, which is another reason why so many want the locals to close. Rather than keep suckling at the taxpayer teat, Ford decided to pull the plug on local production so that their image isn't associated with centrelink.
Oh BTW, your beloved Holden went on strike just the other day. http://www.smh.com.au/business/holde...118-2xpuy.html

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by ltd

...
Base salary 60-80K, overtime and bonuses bring that up to the range of $100-150K...

Glad we cleared that up. Base salary is $60-$80k, and that is the figure that should be used when discussing whether they are over paid on not.

Figure should be what they earn for an honest year's work, not what they earn for an honest year's work plus giving up a ****-load of personal leisure time and/or quality time with their family to instead put in extra hours and/or work outside of normal business hours.

[GREGL]

What if any trade qualifications do they have , I only ask because as some one else posted going rates for fully trade qualified workers are in a lot of cases lower than the car manufacturing industry APPEARS to be . Unless of course you have ventured to the mines and are on a roster of 14 on 4 off or 28 and 8 off or some such ,doing 12 hour days . in that case you do earn your 150G missing out on all that family time outside of normal business hours . Not quite the same as living a hour ? away and going home every night when you think about it .
Kinda reminds me of another industry that had a similar set up with lots of overtime years ago , the wharves . Closed shop and all . some I knew could somehow be home or in the pub selling something off the that fell off the back of a truck before they left work .
Thank god those days are gone , or we would have REALLY been stuffed as a country now .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by peterljohnson55

Herald Sun's political commentator, Andrew Bolt, reports that the Australian Financial Review's industrial relations columnist, Grace Collier, says ...

"there is a way to make Holden profitable that doesn’t involve more massive handouts from taxpayers .... If the Holden workers went back on to the award, Holden would be miraculously transformed. Labour costs would drop by somewhere between 50 and 75 per cent."

Now that is a novel approach - what do you think?

See the rest of Bolt's brief presentation of Collier's reasoning here...

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a.../#commentsmore

ANDREW BOLT . TOP BLOKE .
Answer me this question , what deserves NORMAL WAGES ? and what would be closest to normal . NURSE !! CAR MANUFACTURING !! OR WAFFLING ON IN FRONT OF A CAMERA !!
lets lets assume the waffling on in front of a camera is the most unskilled and least dangerous of the 3 vocations NURSE NEXT , AND THEN CAR MANUFACTURING AS THE MOST DANGEROUS AND HIGHEST SKILLED . ( MAKING CARS IS NOT ASSEMBLING LEGO BLOCKS YOU KNOW !!! ) WHERE IS THE WAGE PARITY AND WHO IS BEING UNFAIRLY PAID HERE !!!!!!!!
WHO OUT OF THE 3 WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE THE LOWEST IQ !!!
WHO OUT OF THE 3 WOULD RATE HIMSELF AS THE MOST SKILLED WITH HIGHEST IQ ? WHO WOULD BE THE MOST ARROGANT ? WHO WOULD THINK THE OTHERS DONT DESERVE ANYTHING NEAR HIM ?
ARE WE STARTING TO GET A PATTERN HERE ?
IF EVERYONE HAD TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES WHO WOULD BE THE 1ST TO DIE OUT IN THE COUNTRY ? WHICH ONE WOULD WHINGE THE MOST ? WHICH ONE HAS MOST LIKELY BEEN HAND FED AND IS INCAPABLE OF MUCH WITHOUT HELP ?
IT SEEMS TO ME THAt the same vocation/ person keeps coming up . ???
have i answered your question with a few examples and evidence .