Why don't we EXEMPT AUSSIE made vehicles from FBT???

[Thunder Time]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Err our Government throws spare change at them, at the same time as putting in place the lowest import restrictions of any nation with its own auto industry.
You realise how hard it is to export cars into Korea, Thailand, Japan? Yet these countries have a free pass basically to export here.

Yep, that's what I'm talking about.
Same as rice into Japan, or Ute's into the USA.
Everything in the EU is subsidised and countries outside the EU are penalised.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Err our Government throws spare change at them, at the same time as putting in place the lowest import restrictions of any nation with its own auto industry.
You realise how hard it is to export cars into Korea, Thailand, Japan? Yet these countries have a free pass basically to export here.

I agree government policy needs to be supportive to enable exporting products.
HOWEVER
Exporting is not a complete responsibility nor is expanding a company's market.
Ford, Holden and Toyota are all responsible for the bottom line of each of their books.
They themselves are responsible for their products, how they sell, the market they sell to and the future of those products.
If government is to continue to fund these then in brings into question the viability of these products and whether the government should be dictating the type of product being sold, after all it is their investment in the organisation that is also at stake.

So yes, the government has some responsibility to support exports but ultimately it is up to the organisation that is trying to sell the product to develop the right product that is competitive enough to sell. Toyota have been doing it to a point and Holden, well I am not sure they're taking it seriously enough and Ford, well I think everyone has seen their plan to export. I'm sorry but I am not one to support throwing money at the car industry in its current form.
There are other industries I believe that are far more deserving of the support and will provide a better return.

[tezxr8man]

I always thought putting the import duties up and using that money to offset our cars was a great idea? It would work twice
also making rego cheaper for our cars couldn't hurt either, talking to a few people that is a contributing factor on their decision. maybe drop it down a level?

[Thunder Time]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I agree government policy needs to be supportive to enable exporting products.
HOWEVER
Exporting is not a complete responsibility nor is expanding a company's market.
Ford, Holden and Toyota are all responsible for the bottom line of each of their books.
They themselves are responsible for their products, how they sell, the market they sell to and the future of those products.
If government is to continue to fund these then in brings into question the viability of these products and whether the government should be dictating the type of product being sold, after all it is their investment in the organisation that is also at stake.

So yes, the government has some responsibility to support exports but ultimately it is up to the organisation that is trying to sell the product to develop the right product that is competitive enough to sell. Toyota have been doing it to a point and Holden, well I am not sure they're taking it seriously enough and Ford, well I think everyone has seen their plan to export. I'm sorry but I am not one to support throwing money at the car industry in its current form.
There are other industries I believe that are far more deserving of the support and will provide a better return.

So, if a change in policy meant that they could turn a profit, they wouldn't need taxpayer funded handouts. Whether we are talking cars, or any other industry, if poor Government policy affects an industry, it costs jobs and investment. Good Government policy creates opportunities and wealth.

Multi Nationals exploit anything to their advantage.
China bought Cuddy Station for basically the price of one good cotton harvest.

India were buying the biggest dairy farm in NSW and wanted to build a powdered milk facility so they could send all of the production back to India.

Indonesia is buying a million acres in the NT to grow their own live export beef. Qatar is trying to buy up farmland as well.

The Governments of these countries see the value in our land, they will probably send their workers over to work the property, use their trucks and ships to transport the goods, call it humanitarian and not pay any taxes, or transfer the profit and not pay taxes.

Most of our clean seafood is farmed by overseas countries and the produce goes overseas where it commands top dollar as it is clean, yet we eat prawns and seafood from polluted rivers in Thailand, etc.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

All the exempted vehicles are imports - Goods carrying.

Why not exempt all Aussie made vehicles which would make sales boom, employ more people who pay more tax and if the local car makers become profitable, we won't have to bail them out with taxpayer funds.

The announcement Rudd made before the election cost Ford around 20% of sales in a month, people in leasing companies lost their jobs over night, etc. It was another "Banana Republic" moment with dramatic consequences.

Government policy seems to give with one hand, and stab you in the back with the other hand.

Cheers
Greg

i think the conclusion in numbers speak for themselves . and your just re rolling the dice .
many many yellow people don't want any fbt tax reductions on motor vehicles . and why only selected companies , which creates unfaireness to retirees , pensioners , unemployed and casual employees , and some who are fully employed but don't earn enough to participate , and some companies that just wont allow . that's pretty much the bigger picture of opposition we've been through this before here , and i would say , going off this forum , which would probably under estimate the general public , ( as most aren't car enthusiasts ) about 80% of people think any tax brakes on a car is ludicrous . ( i don't agree , but results are conclusive )

[phillyc]

Make Australian made vehicles GST exempt. Simple. Either the manufacturer continues to sell them at the current price (improving profit margin - indeed actually making a profit) or they sell more because the price is lower / more competitive. Perhaps something in between. But if the full 'discount' were passed through this is the pricing scenario.

Toyota had Camry at under $29k, imagine that at $26k.
Ford had XR6T utes for under $35k, imagine that at $31k.
GMHolden had Cruze at about $20k, imagine that at $18k.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

What profits? Toyota, Ford or Holden havnt made a profit in years on their local operations.
Fact is it isnt possible to build cars here without some sort of subsidy, it isnt possible to build cars anywhere without support.
Youd be surprised how much money the German and Korean countries throw into their industry...
Its ironic that no one objects to the millions of dollars thrown at Hollywood for them to make movies here, which only provides a short term benefit.

yeah...they do make a profit, they just shift the bottom line to whichever subsidiary has the best tax breaks.

Pay your Australian CEO a million bucks a year and you have made a profit.

Buy your engines from Detroit subsidiary for an inflated price...yep you've made a profit.

A loss means you just haven't made as much as forecast in a lot of cases.


Just like getting 2% on a bank term deposit when you should have been getting 5%.....you've made a 3% loss...


In the past the profits were flying offshore at a furious rate between subsidiaries.

[Crazy Dazz]

Two major problems:

Over the years of toing & froing between opposition and government, rather than develop two distinct models, what we have is two major political parties that have gravitated towards commonality on many key points. Both tend towards a “Laissez-faire” view of economics, and a Socialist model of government.

In the first, this means they believe unfettered competition is best for not only the consumer, but also the industry. And it IS, in the short-term and provided EVERYBODY plays by the same rules.
Unfortunately it also assumes that you don’t care about unemployment or that your work-force is completely mobile. (Ie they will move to Thailand if that is where the jobs are :-(.)
Also, every country (or economic bloc) I can think of protects its industry.

In the second, governments of both colours would rather tax you, then spend the money how THEY see fit. They actually believe it is better for Australians to have LESS disposal income, and for the government to decide what is important and should have money spent on it.

So despite all the talk and rhetoric, they actually believe that if Ford shuts down for economic reasons, that it is for the best. So whilst they will prance around making speeches, and handing out a bit of OUR money, it is all for show. Keep in mind that this is only ONE of many Australian industries that have been sold down the river by our governments, and most get zero help because they don’t have the political profile.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Two major problems:

Over the years of toing & froing between opposition and government, rather than develop two distinct models, what we have is two major political parties that have gravitated towards commonality on many key points. Both tend towards a “Laissez-faire” view of economics, and a Socialist model of government.

.

Not the governments fault that local manufacturers aren't producing what people want...as evidenced by sales trends.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zilo

Not the governments fault that local manufacturers aren't producing what people want...as evidenced by sales trends.

Small cars and Utes have the biggest demand.

If Toyota are selling Camrys at a $3k loss, then imagine what the amount would be on Corollas.
Utes can be in built Thailand for atleast $10k less over there than here.

You could easily solve the problem by putting a 50% import duty on commercial vehicles.

Suddenly the big three might be able to build something here that people want and actually turn a profit at the same time.

This is what Thailand imposes on the rest of the World.

For imported (new) cars, there are 4 taxes that apply: Import Duty (80%), Excise tax, Interior tax (which is 10% of the calculated excise tax value) and VAT (7%).
If you look at the excise tax structure, the policy enables the most commonly used vehicles by Thais such as motorbikes and working pickups (single and extended cab pickups under 3250cc) to carry negligible tax of 3% (effectively 3.1%) because luxury imported cars carry the most tax; Pickups over 3250cc or greater, E20 compatible and all other cars over 3000cc or >= 220HP are taxed 50% (effectively 111.1%).

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by zilo

Not the governments fault that local manufacturers aren't producing what people want...as evidenced by sales trends.

Actually it IS.
For starters, the majority of the economic environment within which these car makers operate is determined by the government. If our government imposed import restrictions and massive taxes on foreign cars (as the majority of our trading partners do) and further required that all cars sold in Australia meet strict Bogan requirements, then provide export enhancements coupled with devaluing our currency by accumulating foreign reserves, I imagine the makers would be jumping to build cars here. (Whether our government SHOULD do that may be the topic for debate, but it WOULD certainly change things.)

In regards the specific models, for years the government has provided politically motivated assistance to continue production of iconic models.

[ryeman]

Free trade as in we send them primary produce they send us manufactured goods.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Free trade as in we send them primary produce they send us manufactured goods.

That worked well before we were importing so many vehicles from there

Last year, Imports from Thailand were $8.6billion, exports to Thailand were only $5.7b.
Goods vehicles (utes) and cars were $2.7b of that amount.

[TMC]

Make a law to force Federal, State, and local governments and their departments to only buy Australian vehicles for their fleets. Only allow exemption from this when an Aussie made vehicle is not available for that particular reason, ie garbage trucks for councils.

There, problem solved.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

Government policy seems to give with one hand, and stab you in the back with the other hand.

Take you long to figure that out?

Seriously though, you can't enact protectionism for our local products through something like that against imports...we've long ago signed treaties and world trade agreements that mean you can't penalise imports, which is what charging a different taxation rate on an imported product would do. Australia would either get into trouble with the world trade mob, or would face penalties and restrictions on our own exported goods to those countries.

Put a 50% tax on commercial vehicles and expect our industry to suddenly, magically, overnight start building those sorts of vehicles? Never happen. It would destroy local business as access to cheap work trucks and vans dried up because of massive cost increases, and manufacturers here can't suddenly start building commercial vehicles. It would take many years and hundreds of millions if not billions to develop, design, and retool to make them.

You can make it a requirement that government agencies purchase only local product...that's OK...but what "local product" is there? Most require a four cylinder, which limits choice a fair bit. Then a lot require four wheel drives (proper four wheel drives), which limits it to...well, zero.


The public wants different things too nowadays...witness the explosion of twin cab utes as normal family vehicles, as well as four wheel drives of all sizes. None of them are "local product", and what do you tell all the people who want them?
Protecting local builders strongly just leads to the bad old days of car manufacture here in Australia, where lazily built under-equipped cars were the norm, because foreign cars were slapped with big import tariffs and people didn't know any better. Once they were able to buy foreign cars and saw what they'd been missing out on, the local makers really had to start picking up their act and including as standard things that had been just options (or not available) before in their cars.
Competition forces innovation...take that away by taxing imports heavily, and the protected local industries will get lazy and think "why try harder? We're selling to a captive audience anyway..."

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Free trade as in we send them primary produce they send us manufactured goods.

We also have to be careful, you start restricting the importation from some countries that we have an agreement with and an active export programme, then they can retaliate and begin limiting the importation of our exportation from other industries i.e. meat, produce, steel, etc.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Wretched

We also have to be careful, you start restricting the importation from some countries that we have an agreement with and an active export programme, then they can retaliate and begin limiting the importation of our exportation from other industries i.e. meat, produce, steel, etc.

Exactly what would happen. It's been threatened before when Australia has forgotten just how big and powerful on the world stage we actually aren't...there's less of us here than there is in a lot of large cities overseas, but some of our politicians seem to think we can dictate to the world how things should be done and that we are some big powerful world voice. We're not, full stop. The world can easily do without us (They "need" our coal and steel? Not really...it's just as easily available in places like Africa, but the world would prefer to do business with us because we are a stable western democracy...however they don't really have to), but we rely on the rest of the world, and we should never forget that.

[Thunder Time]

At the expense of our industry, our economy and our workers, we are signing Free Trade agreements and adhering to them. The other parties are using subsidies, or exempting some of our exports and taxing them.

Part of the Free Trade agreements allow us to impose a tax to protect our industry if it is being detrimentally affected - such as our fruit crops, but our Governemnt does not impose it.

If Thailand places barriers on our products, then it should be bi-lateral. They should not be allowed to ship their goods to us without import duty equivalent to what they put on our goods. Similarly, if Japan restricts our agriculture (eg rice) then we reciprocate with a tax on some of their shipments to us. It should be "equal trade" - same or similar restrictions to both countries.

There are already FBT exemptions, and mostly it is imported cars that benefit. If it was changed to exempt only Aussie made vehicles, it does not affect free trade. It isn't a hand out, and it does not cost Taxpayers money to implement. If it boosts the sales of Aussie made, then they may be profitable, which saves taxpayers handing out billions in bail outs. It is an incentive to buy local.

It was mentioned about being unfair to pensioners, etc. They don't get baby bonuses, family tax benefits, child care rebates, maternity leave, etc. However, when Taxpayers pay half a billion in bail out money, they are losing as well. All Australians benefit from car makers being profitable and not being bailled out constantly.

People got free pink batts, solar rebates, rainwater tanks, etc - when was the last time the Government gave away a free muffler??? Some Industries have been given handouts, yet others miss out - its a fact of life.

Each time there is a handout - of any type, the stipulation should be that it is spent on Aussie made goods only, and that way the money circulates in Australia and lots of businesses end up with a benefit as it is spent.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

If Thailand places barriers on our products, then it should be bi-lateral. They should not be allowed to ship their goods to us without import duty equivalent to what they put on our goods. Similarly, if Japan restricts our agriculture (eg rice) then we reciprocate with a tax on some of their shipments to us. It should be "equal trade" - same or similar restrictions to both countries.

But muh developing countries!!!!! You big bad westerners!!!!!

Do that, and the world comes down on your head like a ton of bricks...you're punishing "developing economies" (even if those "developing" nations have bigger economies than your...China has somehow managed to hold onto the descriptive as a "developing country" believe it or not, with all the sympathy and benefits that brings with it), and the rest of the world looks on your actions very poorly and starts talking about imposing sanctions of some sort to stop you "punishing poorer nations" and harming their "developing export industries"...

Not fair, but that's how it works when we are a tiny western nation surrounded by much more powerful Asian countries with massive economies of scale and cheap labor.

[kaniSS]

You should realise by now our Governments have become completely Anti-Australian just to please Green's and Minority sooks. Don't expect them to do anything to help you.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Protecting local builders strongly just leads to the bad old days of car manufacture here in Australia, where lazily built under-equipped cars were the norm, because foreign cars were slapped with big import tariffs and people didn't know any better. Once they were able to buy foreign cars and saw what they'd been missing out on, the local makers really had to start picking up their act and including as standard things that had been just options (or not available) before in their cars.

I have to agree very strongly there, look at the offerings we had in the 70s,80s,the import stuff back then was so far superior,but we had limited choices
Toyota were running 2 barell carbs,clutch fan ,4 speed boxes ,sometimes 5 speed on even the basic corollas,ford and holden 6 pots came standard with a carb no bigger than whats on a mower,power robbing fixed fans,coupled to a 3 speed box and you could option a 4 speed,ya pay extra for an extra cog,imported 6s,make the stuff here worthy of no more than boat anchors, OHC engines were standard decades before we got them ,the tide has changed,and many don't want bare bones basic as the best you can get ...

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Actually it IS.

For starters, the majority of the economic environment within which these car makers operate is determined by the government. .

Actually you are wrong, it is simply that the local market doesn't want the products that are being made here.

That is the simple fact.

Look at Mitsubishi...they dropped the price by 10 grand in the end and still couldn't sell a thirsty 4 litre V6.

It's all about fuel economy even with govt departments/fleet buyers now, whether just a perception or not...big motor=big fuel bills.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If our government imposed import restrictions and massive taxes on foreign cars (as the majority of our trading partners do) and further required that all cars sold in Australia meet strict Bogan requirements, then provide export enhancements coupled with devaluing our currency by accumulating foreign reserves, I imagine the makers would be jumping to build cars here. (Whether our government SHOULD do that may be the topic for debate, but it WOULD certainly change things.).

Yeah? So our govt should make us pay more for imports to force all of us to pay more for every car?

Something wrong with that logic.

And no...car makers aren't beating our doors down to setup factories here.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

In regards the specific models, for years the government has provided politically motivated assistance to continue production of iconic models.

yes...and it's got to the point where companies like General motors are holding governments to ransom.

[2011G6E]

I'll tell you where an awful lot of manufacturers are "beating down the doors" to set up factories...India. Not exactly sure I want the same economic conditions here that encourage them to do that though...

"Continue production of iconic models"...?

Look, the harsh reality is that no one is buying the Falcon in numbers that keep it competitive and profitable. It has to go, sales trends have changed. Commodore will probably end up the same. There's no use chucking hundreds of millions in tax payers dollars at the makers just to keep a badge going when no one is buying it. It's similar to V8's...why they are still made is beyond me...of course they're subsidised by the vast numbers of cars sold that aren't V8 Falcons or Commodores. Staggeringly more people seem to just like the idea of a V8 still being available than actually stump up the cash to purchase one.

Makers have to face harsh choices if they want to be able to stand on their own two feet. The market has changed remarkably over the last ten years. A "normal family car" is no longer simply that...depending on where you live, a normal family car can be many things. Where I live, I can look out the front door and see a street full of twin cab utes. Down in Rocky or our house in Gracemere, it's twin cab utes and SUV-type vehicles. Plenty of sedans too, but they're not overwhelmingly Falcons and Commodores as in years past. They're mostly fuel efficient but still decent sized four cylinder sedans and wagons.

The public isn't a captive audience who feels they must go and buy a Falcon or a Commodore...at least not any more they're not. The range (even from "the big Aussie car makers" is staggering now, better than it ever has been...truly something for everyone, and people can look at options. In the past, you wanted a wagon, you got a Falcon. Now, people can look and consider if they really need six cylinder fuel and running costs, and instead buy something smaller like an SUV style vehicle but which has just as much interior room because of modern packaging, or maybe buy a four cylinder twin cab ute and have the best of both worlds.

Artificially restricting the publics choice won't make any friends...we've had far too many years of sharp pricing and amazing range of choices. Pouring tax dollars into models that simply aren't wanted anymore isn't going to fix anything.
Maybe the makers need to sit down and have a long hard think about what "the ideal Australian car" would actually look like while keeping the simple image of a Falcon or Commodore locked firmly out of their minds...a large three box sedan with a six cylinder engine is no longer "the way things must be" in the minds of most buyers...it's time the designers widened their imaginations a bit.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by zilo

Actually you are wrong, it is simply that the local market doesn't want the products that are being made here.

Blah blah blah

Yeah? So our govt should make us pay more for imports to force all of us to pay more for every car?

Yada yada yada

And no...car makers aren't beating our doors down to setup factories here.

Oh FFS
It’s hardly worth contradicting you, when you do such a good job yourself.

Ok, so you hate Falcons and think Ooropean Cars are the best, we get it. BUT that has nothing to do with manufacturing in Australia.
Doesn’t matter whether you’re talking cars, thongs, or undies, the economic factors effecting manufacture ARE dictated by the government. Fact, end of story.
(Sorry if you don’t understand reality, but there it is.)

And YES, make the environment attractive for ANY industry, and the companies WILL fall all over themselves to get here. Australia COULD become the mecca for manufacturing copper pots if the government wanted it badly enough. Is that something we want? Hell no, but again it doesn’t alter the fact that the economics are dictated by the government.

As for “making every car more expensive,” well D’OH, that’s kinda the point isn’t it. It’s CHEAPER to manufacture elsewhere, what a revelation.
It has nothing to do with the market not wanting our products. What’s the top selling car in Australia (I don’t even know any more, but let’s say it’s the Mazda 323.) If conditions were right, Mazda would build a factory here, but at the moment they can build them in Thailand or wherever for a fraction of the cost.
We’re not even close to being competitive.

And the irony is that whilst product isn’t really the question, if Ford could profitably put a Falcon on the road for the same price as a Geely, they WOULD sell a lot more.

Frankly, the “bugger you jack” attitude of many “Australians” disgusts me.
I live in WA, we don’t manufacture jack. We could secede and all live the highlife with dirt cheap imported goods. But what are the rest of you going to do for a quid?
I guarantee you, when the mining boom finally levels out, the European & USA economies recover, the AUD is again at 50c, and the emerging Chinese middle-class forces their currency up, many people will rue the day we disembowelled our manufacturing industry.

[2011G6E]

Nope.

It's a world trade economy that enables goods to be traded around the place between nations. You can no longer go it alone.

As for our country and "attracting factories here", they won't come, full stop. Not unless you completely scrap our economic system, start from scratch, organise things and the cost of living and price of household items so that workers are able to be paid "competitive" wages with nearby Asian countries (I'm guessing a wage of down near $10 a day at most with accordingly cheap groceries, clothing, and fuel and power), they're not going to choose us over the teeming Asian countries that surround us.

Those countries "appear" cheap by comparison to western economies because they've always been like that...people getting what to us looks like slave wages, but to them is quite a good wage. That's why we go there on holidays..."everything is so dirt cheap". Yes it is...but to them it seems "normal" because of the apparently low wages they are getting paid.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Nope.

It's a world trade economy that enables goods to be traded around the place between nations. You can no longer go it alone.

As for our country and "attracting factories here", they won't come, full stop. Not unless you completely scrap our economic system, start from scratch, organise things and the cost of living and price of household items so that workers are able to be paid "competitive" wages with nearby Asian countries (I'm guessing a wage of down near $10 a day at most with accordingly cheap groceries, clothing, and fuel and power), they're not going to choose us over the teeming Asian countries that surround us.

Those countries "appear" cheap by comparison to western economies because they've always been like that...people getting what to us looks like slave wages, but to them is quite a good wage. That's why we go there on holidays..."everything is so dirt cheap". Yes it is...but to them it seems "normal" because of the apparently low wages they are getting paid.

Problem is that these people wont always accept being paid so little, sooner than we think they are going to demand the standard of living we take for granted.
What happens then? We'll end being held for ransom because they'll hold all the abilty to manufacture the goods that we want, and set the price that they want.

Enjoy the cheap overseas junk while you can.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Oh FFS
It’s hardly worth contradicting you, when you do such a good job yourself.

blah blah blah

Just another tiresome, stupid personal attack post .

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Problem is that these people wont always accept being paid so little, sooner than we think they are going to demand the standard of living we take for granted.
What happens then? We'll end being held for ransom because they'll hold all the abilty to manufacture the goods that we want, and set the price that they want.

Enjoy the cheap overseas junk while you can.

We can't judge their economies on our standards though. Yes, they will want a better standard of living, they will want a better way of life...however, that doesn't mean them starting to get paid thirty or forty dollars an hour...for them, in their economies, that could well mean going from $1 an hour to $2 or $3 an hour...a simply massive change for them, meaningless from our perspective.

In those countries, even the well off professional workers who live very good lifestyles in a nice area of a city live on a wage that we would call below slave level.

They'll never catch up to us in pay or cost of living, but relative to their situation, they will have better pay and standards of living...just not on the same level of pay as we get. And this is where the problem lies...we are a small western economy slap bang in the middle of large Asian nations teeming with many hundreds of millions of people. We can't throw our weight around (though some politicians in the past have foolishly thought otherwise), and we should just work at doing the best we can and try not to annoy anyone too much.

[2011G6E]

I believe that under international free trade agreements and regulations, you can impose tariffs and special taxes and import restrictions if they are for something that only your country has...such as our record of disease free fruit for instance. We can put in place import restrictions for very good reasons and they take many years of negotiation to get rid of. It took decades to allow foreign bananas and apples into this country, and now they're talking about pineapples, but that will also take many many years.

We are able to do this because we can claim, quite rightly, that we have a special case because of our disease free status to restrict or ban imports, and there is little our opposition overseas can do about it.

However, with cars, well, there's nothing magical about being able to make a car in your country, so there's very little we can do to "stop" imports or severely restrict them without some quite nasty penalties being placed against us for trying to do so.

[ryeman]

One of the great unexplained 'free trade' scandals is the massive US agricultural subsidise which our primary sector has weaned itself off.
How do the American farm sector get away with the 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude. Beats me.