Porsche 911 Turbo v. V8 Supercar

[JC]

What diff ratio was in the V8 SC? Must have been the Bathurst ratio, maybe.

[mik]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Anyone that prefers a V8SC over a 911 Turbo likes men :

i always thought it was the other way around

[GTP370]

Originally Posted by akiklovich

Im glad this topic came about, as im interested in buying a standard 911, turbo costs too much, unless there is a cheaper one around. Second hand offcourse, anyone has any pros and cons about these cars?

Looking from around 2004+, found a nice targa one with the glass roof, standard motor though... Do they go well?

I purchased a used 2003 911 996 MY04 Turbo last August for about 55% less than it's new price tag. It had only 27,000k on the clock, one owner, fully serviced, new condition etc... This one is black with beige interior.

This is my first euro car and is just sensational to drive and own. There is no issue getting power to the ground whatsoever, and this one is fitted with a power chip. Handling...you're on rails, you feel like cheating each and every time!! Clutch and shifting the manual is remarkably easy, in fact driving the car as a daily work vehicle is effortless. the 996 911 turbo is very luxurious inside with all the mod cons, including nat sav standard on the MY04 onwards.

Maintaining can prove expensive and may consider alternatives than using the local Porsche centre. To replace a clutch and flywheel supplied and fitted by Porsche will cost around $8k. To replace spark plus involves taking the engine and cost's around $1.5k!!

Porsche offer 5 year extended warranty on new cars and can be transferred to a second owner. This costs $1.5k per year to maintain.

Good luck finding a 911.

[hawke]

I went out last year to buy a 911, and came home with a Boxster. Saved a lot of money, two less seats - but you cant use 911 rears anyway - and its a great every day car. Options are a killer - $10k for sat nav, but there are often good deals on demonstrators. Mine had been marked down $64k off list, and only had 7,000km.

I got the 10 year extended warrenty, and its $2k per year to keep. Service is only $900 every two years.

On another point, a Formula Ford can do Phillip Island in 1:38 - and thats a lot cheaper than a Porsche Cup car or Turbo.

[GTP370]

Originally Posted by hawke

but you cant use 911 rears anyway

911 comes with anchor points in the back. My 3 year old loves riding in the back...plently room for little ones.

And those times when you need to take a third person home, there's room but you wouldn't want to go too far.

[ebxr8240]

Another MLC vehicle...

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Another part of the story says the only Holden parts the V8 S/C has in common with a road car is the bonnet, part of the roof, front doors and the rear screen. The Fords are no different.

Wing mirrors? Headlights? Taillights? Bootlid? :togo:

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Another MLC vehicle...

Yeh, not that the majority of FPV and HSV vehicles are bought by men in their 40s or 50s.

Reading through this thread I have determined:

1) A particular standard turbo 6 can beat a particular standard V8 over a 400m drag race (who da thunk).

2) Quite a few people are not happy about this as it does not fit their view of how the world should be (again who da thunk)

3) 0-400 times have very little significance in anything other than (a) actual drag racing oriented vehicles on 400m tracks (b) keyboard and schoolyard/pub racing, when determining REAL WORLD performance capability of any motor vehicle, road or track but unfortunately like speed cameras, they give a "number" that people who are still on their way to grasping the big picture can fixate on and repeat over and over again whenever the subject of performance is aired.

[ea90gl]

With all due respect to the Porsche good luck to it enduring 1000km around Bathurst at full pelt

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

With all due respect to the Porsche good luck to it enduring 1000km around Bathurst at full pelt

Hmmmm

What sort of cars drove in the James Hardie/Hardie Ferodo/etc Bathurst race up until recently?

What sort of cars drive in the 12 hour race?

Did all of the above mentioned cars need a complete engine rebuild after the race or did many of them get driven home and then to work on their owners daily commute?

[Kamshaaft]

It might not be apples to organes, but it's still at least apples to pears. They're set up for different purposes. I remember in a comparo from last year even the roadgoing versions (FPV(?) & HSV) were quicker in the 0-60 than the supercars, especially the Ford (with it's wonderfully torquey and flat powerband), and from what I recall they braked harder, especially the HSV (which can brake as hard the 911 Turbo despite being a mammoth).

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by puts99

Wing mirrors? Headlights? Taillights? Bootlid? :togo:

Boot lid carbon fibre so no :

I'm not sure the article was being that literal there may a few extra parts on common like door handles... :

[ebxr8240]

That's it I'm buying one as my daily...
Hmm??? How much is a tow bar ??
For the 18 ft cabin cruiser..

[302 XC]

i dont think thats a fair comparison ??
they both are built for different styles
a v8 supercar street legal for road use ????
very very doubtfull
so how do a comparison
its like comparing a fpv/hsv to a v8 supercar ???
is it not a fair comparison

[GTP370]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

It might not be apples to organes, but it's still at least apples to pears. They're set up for different purposes. I remember in a comparo from last year even the roadgoing versions (FPV(?) & HSV) were quicker in the 0-60 than the supercars, especially the Ford (with it's wonderfully torquey and flat powerband), and from what I recall they braked harder, especially the HSV (which can brake as hard the 911 Turbo despite being a mammoth).

Personally I find the 996 911 braking experience much more reassuring compared to the BA II GTP. The Porsche Stability Management and 4 spot brakes all round work a treat.

[GTP370]

Originally Posted by nerida67

i dont think thats a fair comparison ??
they both are built for different styles
a v8 supercar street legal for road use ????
very very doubtfull
so how do a comparison
its like comparing a fpv/hsv to a v8 supercar ???
is it not a fair comparison

The article is obviously promoting the fact the 911 turbo is one hell of a car, comparing it to purpose built race car. Directed to potential buyers as a marketing ploy and for owners and enthusiasts to enjoy. All in good fun I would think.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Yes the article also points out the Porsche can be driven to work every day in traffic, putter around town using 10L/100kms, with a nice radio AC leather trim, yet hose anything to legal speeds and beyond.

They shouldn't have stopped there, and pointed out that my 8 year old motorbike would dust the latest 911T.

IIRC the 996 GT3 cup cars lap Pukekohe faster than the V8SC, which is a track suited for high powered cars.

[4Vman]

I wonder why they picked the Turbo 911 over the GT3, a car more suited to track work and comparisons?

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Boot lid carbon fibre so no :

You sure?

I'd love to see proof, it goes against everything I've seen whilst watching the V8Supercars all these years.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Elks

TerminatorS built by CAT600 can do that, and it ran a 10.7 with full interior climate control etc. but that was with the old motor, picked up 60kw since then.

That said, I doubt it could sustain laps against the souped up volksy let alone a supercar. but I might be wrong there.

Yep you are.

Ran around Barbagallo for 6 laps straight in the consistant 69's on street legal rubber with my "Road suspension" setup, blazing the tyres on every corner exit while an R35 GTR did one lap .4 secs faster but did 15 more laps and averaged about .5 secs slower, and we all know what a GTR will do to a 911.

Mind you the TS50 is about the same price as a 911 Turbo.... :togo:

Daniel

[CFOUR]

I'm not a Porsche fan but id rather drive a 911 turbo with air-con for 1000km than a V8SC.
However I'd rather push a ford gt supercar than drive either.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Yep you are.

Ran around Barbagallo for 6 laps straight in the consistant 69's on street legal rubber with my "Road suspension" setup, blazing the tyres on every corner exit while an R35 GTR did one lap .4 secs faster but did 15 more laps and averaged about .5 secs slower, and we all know what a GTR will do to a 911.

Mind you the TS50 is about the same price as a 911 Turbo.... :togo:

Daniel

I never did see too many of these TS50s roll off the showroom floor with warrantee and over 500rwkw...you must have just picked up fluke engine.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Sydney Morning Herald Drive Section has a story on a Porsche 911 Turbo pitted against a Holden V8 Super Car on the 1/4 mile and on the race track.

The stock standard 911 Turbo did the 1/4 in 11.2secs :

The V8 S/C did it in 11.8 secs.

I was astounded, great read...

Kind of makes the HSV and FPV offerings very lame indeed..

This comparison kind of makes a stock XYGT look like a prius,,, LOL..

My point being... there is no point.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I never did see too many of these TS50s roll off the showroom floor with warrantee and over 500rwkw...you must have just picked up fluke engine.

Believe it or not, I see through your heavily veiled sarcasm.

But I am sure that my car is more pertinent to the question than a V8SC is, hence why it was brought up.

Daniel

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Believe it or not, I see through your heavily veiled sarcasm.

But I am sure that my car is more pertinent to the question than a V8SC is, hence why it was brought up.

Daniel

Ah yes I see the error in my ways. :

[GT290]

Originally Posted by Cam

Strange.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBPDCMMpGpM

yeah it is strange aint it mate. WTF happened there?

[ebxr8240]

I guess it's the nut behind the wheel ???
They seemed gentle on clutch to prevent wheelspin...

[Yellow_Festiva]

From drive.com.au

Supercar shootout: Porsche 911 Turbo takes on V8 Supercar
DAVID MORLEY
February 20, 2010

Road car takes on racing machine on the track. No-brainer, right? David Morley finds it's not that simple.

Even with the driver's window up, all I can hear as we line up on Phillip Island's main straight is the blaring exhaust from the V8 supercar beside me.

As Fabian Coulthard in the race car brings his revs up to prepare for launch, the noise — with a helmet on, mind you — is incredible. Painful even.

Then the flag drops, Coulthard slides home the clutch and blasts off.

At least, I imagine that's what happened because my road-registered, off-the-shelf Porsche 911 Turbo has leapt off the line like it's been shot out of a cannon.

There's a small chirp of the tyres as the dual-clutch automatic gearbox in the Porsche shifts from first to second but the thrust continues to pin me to the seat.

At least the din of Coulthard's racer has waned, purely because just a second or so into this drag race, I'm already several car lengths ahead of the V8 supercar.

Sounds incredible, but that's how it happened. I swear.

By about the 250-metre mark, my road-legal 911 Turbo is still ahead of Coulthard in the Holden V8 supercar but his image in my mirror is getting bigger all the time. He's running me down. It's a frantic, incredible few seconds of my life.

We flash across the 400-metre mark, both doing better than 200km/h, with the Porsche still ahead. It's won the race across the standard quarter-mile run.

The catch is that while the 911 was still accelerating, it was building speed nowhere near as quickly as it did off the line. Even so, it has taken a stunning 11.2 seconds to cover the first 400 metres and reach 202.2km/h.

Coulthard's V8 racer, meanwhile, has taken 11.8 seconds for the same journey. But he's travelling at 213km/h as he crosses the line.

While the Porsche is starting to level out, the V8 supercar is just getting into its stride and closing in on me. Had our drag lasted another 100 or 200 metres, the Supercar would have hauled in the 911.

Let me put it into perspective for you.

If this Porsche road car was on the grid of the Bathurst 1000, it'd likely be leading into the first corner. But by the time it got to the top of Mountain Straight heading towards the steeper climb of Mount Panorama, it'd be somewhere near the back of the pack.

Regardless of what might happen after the first 400 metres, though, there's no getting around the fact the new Porsche 911 Turbo is a stunning piece of equipment.

Porsche's 911 Turbo has been 35 years in the making. Shown first in 1975 at the Paris motor show and with local deliveries starting in late 1977, the original 911 Turbo was a crude, sometimes malevolent piece of equipment. But it was also very, very fast.

In typical Porsche style, the model has slowly evolved into the true supercar it is these days. But as well as offering much greater civility and comfort, the modern 911 Turbo is now one of the fastest mass-produced cars you can strap into.

But how fast is it?

We knew it had the potential to smash anything else built in serious numbers, so the logical step was to move it up a division.

If this is the best road car that Porsche can turn out, what happens when we put it up against the cream of the Australian motor sport crop?

Enter the Bundaberg Red Racing V8 supercar, which comes from the same company that screws together the Holden Racing Team's championship-contending racers and is capable in its own right of race wins.

And don't think this is a promotional car or something used for ride days; this is exactly the same car Coulthard will line up on the grid at the season-opening race in Abu Dhabi this weekend.

Comparing a road car such as the 911 Turbo with a V8 supercar might have seemed a bit one-sided.

Until the flag dropped, that is. Which brings us back to our drag race.

When you really dissect the acceleration numbers, you can see what a monster effort the Porsche summoned.

From standstill to 40km/h, it was almost a second faster than the supercar (1.1 seconds against 2.0 seconds, respectively). And that's all down to the way the 911 Turbo launches.

With all-wheel-drive and launch control in the PDK twin-clutch automatic version we tested (it's quicker than the manual), nothing this side of a ballistic missile leaves the mark harder.

By 60km/h the gap had stretched out to a full second (1.7 seconds versus 2.7 seconds). Again, the launch is the secret but the Porsche is also now right into its power zone with full boost provided by the twin turbochargers.

The gap is at its largest as both cars reach 100km/h: the 911 crosses in 3.1 seconds, the V8 Supercar in 4.5 seconds. It's a staggering 1.4-second margin for the road car.

And then the pattern starts to change. As the supercar overcomes its tall gearing, tricky-to-launch differential and relative lack of traction from just the rear wheels, it begins to haul in the German car with superior top-end power.

Accelerating from 100km/h to 200km/h takes 7.8 seconds in the 911 but consumes just 6.0 seconds as the racer's thumping V8 hits its stride.

Performance is not all about straight-line speed, so instead of just using the Phillip Island circuit's Gardner Straight, we unleashed both cars on the full circuit.

Before Coulthard drove a V8 supercar he piloted a race-tuned Porsche 911 to the Carrera Cup Australian championship in 2005. For the sake of consistency, we sent him out to lap in each car — the 911 Turbo first.

There's absolutely no doubt Coulthard was trying hard, too. As he came on to the straight for his first flying lap, the 911 Turbo was drifting towards the outside of the track, searching for grip as 368kW tried to tear the surface off the bitumen.

Passing our timing point, the 911 was in fifth gear with an unholy cacophony issuing from the tailpipes as the turbochargers stuffed an extra atmosphere straight into the engine's cylinders.

After a 1:47.77 lap to get his eye in, Coulthard then got down to a best of 1:46.94 in the 911 Turbo.

For a road car, that's phenomenal and underlines the Porsche's racetrack smarts (and let's not forget Porsche makes other models that are even more track-oriented).

And while Coulthard might have needed a lap or two to reacquaint himself with the Porsche way, the same could also be said of his first efforts in the V8 supercar.

You see, at the start of this year he migrated from a Ford-backed team to Holden-based Bundaberg Red Racing — part of Walkinshaw Racing and the sister outfit to the Holden Racing Team — and this was to be Coulthard's first hit-out in his new "office" for the 2010 championship. After playing himself in for a lap or two, he reeled off 1:36.75 and 1:36.07 laps in the V8 supercar.

According to the Bundaberg Red team, those times are bang on race pace.

To be honest, while we knew the V8 supercar would be quicker around the full circuit, we weren't expecting the margin to be a full 10 seconds.

But Coulthard quickly put that into perspective. In fact, after lapping both cars, he admitted to being a bit surprised at how similar they felt in many ways.

"Like the race car, in the Porsche you have to have it square with the track before you hit the throttle to exit the turn," he says. "It's very similar to the V8 in that regard.

"You have to be confident that you can squeeze the power on and leave it on, and not have to back off because you've made the car run wide.

"The problem if you get on the power too early is that the 911 will start to understeer as all that grunt lifts the front wheels and it heads for the outside of the corner.

"But it's phenomenal from zero to about 200km/h. It's a weapon.

"As a car in general, there's not many road cars you could do that with."

So, if they're similar in some ways, why is a V8 supercar faster around a track like Phillip Island?

According to Coulthard, it's very simple and comes down to four main factors.

"For a start, the V8 Supercar is a lot stiffer," he explains. "There's less suspension travel so the car stays flatter on the track with a better contact patch [between the tyre and the road].

"Also, the aerodynamic package on a race car is much more effective than that of a road car," he says of the V8 Supercar's ability to push itself hard into the track, meaning more grip.

"Then you've got the fact that the V8 is a purpose-built race car. It's light and it has plenty of grunt where you want it, once you've got it moving.

"But I reckon the big factor here is the slick [racing] tyres of the V8. They allow you to carry a lot more corner speed and that's the big difference here today."

Motor sport observers know that correct tyre choice and tyre condition can make or break a race for a team and driver but how much difference do slick, or untreaded, race tyres make in this case?

"I'd say about five seconds a lap," Coulthard estimates.

Now, that's significant because fitting the 911 Turbo with slick tyres and having it tour Phillip Island five seconds faster would bring it to within five seconds a lap of the purpose-built V8 supercar.

Not only would race tyres bring the Porsche performance envelope within cooee of the best that this county's premier motor sport category can do, it also brings the 911's other attributes into pretty sharp focus.

While the V8 supercar would scrape its body kit on the shallowest of driveways, makes a noise like a jumbo jet taking off, has just one seat, no air-conditioning or power windows, a bone-jarring ride and a locked differential that means it can't even do a U-turn, the Porsche is docile enough to drive to the supermarket or to work and back, day in and day out.

The 911 clears service station driveways, cossets you in leather, uses less than 10 litres per 100 kilometres — try that in a V8 supercar — and even has a cracking stereo.

Combine all that with the knowledge that, up to any speed you can legally drive in this country, the new 911 Turbo thumps a V8 supercar hands down and it's borderline miraculous.

Then some info on the driver, then this about the Holden:

A Holden, but not as we know it

Forget open-wheeler racing. In Australia, touring car racing has been king since the 1960s and the modern V8 supercar is an extension of that.

But while the masses huddle around their televisions to cheer on their hero (based on where they stand relative to the Ford-Holden tribal divide), the fact is there's really very little actual Holden Commodore in a Holden Commodore V8 supercar.

In fact, short of a few body panels and maybe the rear windscreen, there's not a Holden part number on it (nor a Ford part number on its rival).

Only the roof, bonnet and front doors feature any Holden steel; the rear doors, rear quarters, front guards and the body kit are all made from carbon-fibre.

Even then, the shape is not strictly that of a Commodore, because race regulations require that the car's wheelbase be made 94 millimetres shorter to comply with the rules, so HRT simply chops that much out of the length of the car, around the middle of the rear doors.

The engine is not the alloy-blocked 6.0-litre in road-going V8 Commodores but rather an iron-blocked 5.0-litre V8 based on an ancient Chevrolet design.

Neither would a Holden mechanic recognise the gearbox. In the race car it's a sequential manual, rather than a conventional H-pattern unit.

While the road-going Commodore uses an independent rear-end, the race car makes do with a live (solid) axle, the centre of which is based on a — gasp — Ford nine-inch unit.

And the front suspension? Nope, nothing Holden there, either. The road car's MacPherson strut arrangement has been replaced by a double wishbone set-up that suits racing requirements much better.

It all makes a bit of a mockery of the diehard fans' devotion to a particular brand, given there's more or less no relationship between the cars on the track and those in new-car dealerships.

But hey, nobody ever said logic had to come into it.

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0219-ol4t.html

[mik]

Originally Posted by nugget378

This comparison kind of makes a stock XYGT look like a prius,,, LOL..

My point being... there is no point.

i`d rather have your prius anyday ;).

[whitetdci]

Blow the Porsche, just get a Nissan R35 GTR which will do both of them in the 1/4 mile and is a heck of a lot cheaper than the Porsche. I await the barrage of comments on this one lol