'09 V8 Holdens with AFM to drop power

[data_mine]

All the Falcons have gotten REAL WORLD economy increases from the ZF 6 speed, and the 5 speed auto's. All the while having MORE power and torque from better tunes.

As above, Holdens block boring machine is broken, and they've run out of ideas for new 'features'.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Paul Govers next headline.

Economical SS saves the planet, the whales and brings down average global temperatures.

Further on in the article he will talk about how the FG Falcon clubs baby seals to death.

LMAO post of the month. Nice work!

I have been asking myself the question; how long can Ford and Holden keep raising the KW on these cars? When will they stop? 350KW? 400KW?

They can't raise it for ever so it appears Holden are trying something a little different

Maybe this is in part a good thing? Just playing devils advocate here

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Paul Govers next headline.

Economical SS saves the planet, the whales and brings down average global temperatures.

Further on in the article he will talk about how the FG Falcon clubs baby seals to death.

That's gold!!!! LMFAO!!!

Post of the month!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Didn't the BOSS get a 8% ecconomy improvement out of the ZF gearbox?

Reducing weight will by far yield the biggest saving in fuel (according to Volvo).

Improving engine and drive line efficiency are also good so stuff like DOHC, VCT, VVT and better auto's are the way to go.

I don't see DOD doing much, but they put it in to motors and it is a tool that salesman can use to distinguish against the opposition.

[GTP290]

Most people prefer Holdens over Fords, because they look better (why else would you buy one?) So of course theyll praise this innovation.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Reducing weight will by far yield the biggest saving in fuel (according to Volvo).

That's certainly true. Helps a lot with performance too.

But to meet 5-star safety ratings, and have 6 disc stackers, air con, a million airbags, power windows and seats etc. etc. that buyers WANT, shedding weight is a very difficult (and expensive) exercise.

Take a look at some of the exotics:

A special version of the Gallardo, dubbed the Superleggera, was launched at the 2007 Geneva Auto Show supposedly in preparation for the next Ferrari 430 Scuderia. The Superleggera is lighter than the base Gallardo by around 70 kg (154 lb) - down to approximately 1,360 kg (3,000 lb) - thanks to the use of carbon fibre panels for the rear diffuser, undertray, the rearview-mirror housings, the interior door panels, the central tunnel, and the engine cover. Even the wheel nuts are made of titanium instead of steel to save even more unsprung weight at each corner of the car.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by data_mine

That's certainly true. Helps a lot with performance too.

But to meet 5-star safety ratings, and have 6 disc stackers, air con, a million airbags, power windows and seats etc. etc. that buyers WANT, shedding weight is a very difficult (and expensive) exercise.

That's true, ford did a good job with the FG in keeping the weight gain to a low level. Ford have a new stamping system in the states that will allow body panels to be lighter but still retain their strength. Mind you this is a fair way off from the Falcon getting it.

[data_mine]

They did that with alloy suspension components, and the plastic intake manifold for the I6 (the major differences).

[Smoke Pursuit]

Im suprised holden hasnt dreamt up a new way of measuring kws so they can cover this discrepency up! Its pretty obvious that they have to drop power / torque to make this whole exercise worth while

[Gobes32]

Very interesting that Holden are dropping power on all motors (auto) to appear as a more "green" manufacturer". Makes you wonder if fleets are going to fall for the supposed savings in fuel costs line? We all know that even with these silly changes the Falcon is STILL more efficient.

[AWD Chaser]

Just did the build and price.

It's an extra $2000 for an automatic with AFM . lol. As far as I can see, there is no standard 270Kw with Auto. It's either manual, or Auto with AFM for an extra $2k.

[snappy]

Afm is known to gain up to 5.5% gain on fuel economy . Holden ss auto has a combined fuel figure of 14.3 lt/100km
So taking the best figures in to account you will save 0.7lt/100km (not to bad at no extra cost)
But What will the charge for a $3 dollar a week saving (or $160 a year) is what i want to know . How many here would sacrifice $3 for 10kw a week .
Great for holden image but i think that all it will achieve.

it one small step for man one giant leap for holden :evil3:

[Gobes32]

Don't forget Holden will give you 99c fuel........................ : :

[Gobes32]

I would pay $3 a week for an EXTRA 10kw?

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I would pay $3 a week for an EXTRA 10kw?

second that

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

Just did the build and price.

It's an extra $2000 for an automatic with AFM . lol. As far as I can see, there is no standard 270Kw with Auto. It's either manual, or Auto with AFM for an extra $2k.

What was the auto opton price before AFM?

[snappy]

$47,290 total
$47,790 with Afm
So $500 more it will take 3.5 years to see more cash in your pocket that is using optimistic figure's too.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by snappy84

$47,290 total
$47,790 with Afm
So $500 more it will take 3.5 years to see more cash in your pocket that is using optimistic figure's too.

Well there you have it... what a joke.
To cap it off you get less power than the previous model and manual, and worse performance!!!
Holden must think their customers really are stupid.
Makes the 290kw 6spd ZF FG XR8 look damn good value!!!

[Gobes32]

What a joke..........

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by snappy84

that is using optimistic figure's too.

And of course as soon as you drive it like a V8, all 8 cylinders come back on, and you save nothing. You've got 6L of displacement and 10 less kW.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

Just did the build and price.

It's an extra $2000 for an automatic with AFM . lol. As far as I can see, there is no standard 270Kw with Auto. It's either manual, or Auto with AFM for an extra $2k.

Considering the auto option was an extra $2,000, it means there isn't any difference.


BTW, I'm anti AFM/DOD whatever as I don't believe there arre any real world benefits.

[WILDB]

Typical Holden. Their current product range is inferior to the FG Falcon in almost every way, but they still outsell. Ford would do very well with Holden's marketing department. As for $2000 for 10kw less - What a joke!

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Paul Govers next headline.

Economical SS saves the planet, the whales and brings down average global temperatures.

Further on in the article he will talk about how the FG Falcon clubs baby seals to death.

Good one and spot on!

[XR6_190]

The more I read, the more of a joke this seems, whats next, they are going to go back to having a 4 sp auto on the SS comodores, I thought running updates were meant to be improvements.

The sad thing is that the public will lap it up like they always do, so many fools out there.

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Paul Govers next headline.

Economical SS saves the planet, the whales and brings down average global temperatures.

Further on in the article he will talk about how the FG Falcon clubs baby seals to death.

Seems about right for Gover, but I would prefer the FG Falcon to club Him :evil3:

[data_mine]

A commodore would be a better choice, the Falcon has 5-star safety, the bombadore doesn't.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by data_mine

A commodore would be a better choice, the Falcon has 5-star safety, the bombadore doesn't.

It does if you buy an omega.. but not if you buy a Berlina/SS/Calais due to the seatbelt warning mechanism. Holden plan on rectifying this issue on all MY10 cars.

[ebxr8240]

DOD seems a DUD ??

[Swordsman88]

Based on specs on websites, it now works out for auto variants to (as far as i can tell):

Ford XR8 sedan: 290kw, 520nm (95RON), 14 L/100km
Ford XR6T (for comparison sake): 270kw, 533nm (95RON) 11.7L/100km
Holden SS commodore: 260kw, 517nm (98 RON), 12.9 L/100km

Now Holden won't admit how much power you lose running 95RON but estimates i have read say up to 10kw and 10nm (probably more like 5kw/5nm). So basically with a small weight advantage (and no help from a slighly inferior auto) a SS auto is supposed to trump XR8s all day according to journos/holden pr. Fact is that a run in XR8 making it rated power figure, now will mostly likely topple Holden's last real VE strong suit - V8 pace. (even if only for bragging rights). Truth is that AFM rarely results in any noteworthy power loses from most manufacturers, since by definition when at full noise on a dyno it doesn't intervene. I would say holden retuned the auto/ecu to get lower fuel burn while they were at it, and this accounts for a fair chunk of the 'fuel saving'. They have saved 0.7L/100km on a model most people who are after fuel savings don't buy anyway, and now have got it well and truly in trouble versus the XR8 (let alone XR6T).

The I6T still burns quite a bit less so if you wanted low fuel burn sports models you go that way, not a V8. V8 owners i'm sure like to save fuel too but not at the expense of power and torque. Detuning the V6 auto made some sense to fleets, but this is just stupid. If you cant deliver meaningful fuel savings while at least maintaining performance than why bother with AFM at all. Ford managed this with the FG for pretty much all models, appears holden is not able too......

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Based on specs on websites, it now works out for auto variants to (as far as i can tell):

Ford XR8 sedan: 290kw, 520nm (95RON), 14 L/100km
Ford XR6T (for comparison sake): 270kw, 533nm (95RON) 11.7L/100km
Holden SS commodore: 260kw, 517nm (98 RON), 12.9 L/100km

Now Holden won't admit how much power you lose running 95RON but estimates i have read say up to 10kw and 10nm (probably more like 5kw/5nm). So basically with a small weight advantage (and no help from a slighly inferior auto) a SS auto is supposed to trump XR8s all day according to journos/holden pr. Fact is that a run in XR8 making it rated power figure, now will mostly likely topple Holden's last real VE strong suit - V8 pace. (even if only for bragging rights). Truth is that AFM rarely results in any noteworthy power loses from most manufacturers, since by definition when at full noise on a dyno it doesn't intervene. I would say holden retuned the auto/ecu to get lower fuel burn while they were at it, and this accounts for a fair chunk of the 'fuel saving'. They have saved 0.7L/100km on a model most people who are after fuel savings don't buy anyway, and now have got it well and truly in trouble versus the XR8 (let alone XR6T).

The I6T still burns quite a bit less so if you wanted low fuel burn sports models you go that way, not a V8. V8 owners i'm sure like to save fuel too but not at the expense of power and torque. Detuning the V6 auto made some sense to fleets, but this is just stupid. If you cant deliver meaningful fuel savings while at least maintaining performance than why bother with AFM at all. Ford managed this with the FG for pretty much all models, appears holden is not able too......

You always bring interesting facts and figures matey!

I think the Holdens 6 litre is going to be a dud with these changes, its obviously lost a fair amount of performance thru these "upgrades".