Do we matter to Ford?

[bcr2734]

i went into a ford dealer 3 weeks ago to look at a r spec typhoon. i couldn't find a salesmen witha idea of what they were nor were they interested in me because i went in there with my standard truck gear on. ( singlet thongs and shorts). the same dealership has hyundai and i went to the salesmen an ask about the New elantra. Well he loved it when i saaid cash and i had the car delived in my driveway on friday lunchtime. The tool ford rep hasn't rang me until yesterday when the hyundai salesmen told him about me and me owning a sick T3. The tool rang my phone and whated a idea what i wanted.

I told him to come out to the property and help me wash my B double and help me polish the tanks over xmas and i would go and test drive the the car. You can guess what happened.

[CFOUR]

The quality of service departments at the momernt is a joke. All the mechs are going to performance shops and service techs are almost a different skill set. I would like to see one of the ford service guys start with a pile of parts and a bf shell and finish with a car. I think the service department is as much to blame as any other part of ford.

My au sheared one of the left engine mounts bolts, so I took it to ford and told the guy to wack it on the hoist and easy out the bolt and replace it. ok easy enough right? I would do it my self if I had access to a lift. But no ford had to get a specialist in to easy out one f'n' bolt. how can they expect customer satisfaction when there highly trained ford specialists who "know your car" (poster*) cant even easy out a bolt?

so no I don't think ford give a about the end user
but yes I will be purchasing a ford next and probably another after that

i think fpv(and tickford before) are the main reason ford has survived this far.

[Scott]

The intent of the thread is getting a little buried, in relation to New Car Sales, do Ford care if we (meaning - private car buyers, not fleet machines) buy their cars?

If yes, then AFF is one of, if not the biggest resources of centralised, brand loyal, private buyers anywhere in the country. Members of AFF own many or most of the nicest, best maintained late model Ford's on the road which add's to the sales machine that is this online community.

For every 21 Aussies making up the population, 1 new car is sold per year. Or the % of new car sales is just worse than 5% of the population. Apply that same maths here and we get close to 2000 new car sales, but let's stick to 2% to stay conservative (and allow for the fact that fleet sales inflate the 5% and that not every new car bought by someone here is a Ford).

If we assumed that of the ~40,000 members, 2% bought a new car in any given year, that's ~800 new cars, probably optioned up AND sold at list price or thereabout. Compare that to the Fleet Manager buying the same quantity, making Ford tender the project, applying all their KPI's and paying a heavily discounted price. Now I'll bet that Ford would be crawling over broken glass to get his business. Where are they vying for your dollar?

So we assume that this community, with regard to new car sales, is atleast as important as a major Multi-National's account. On the closing of the deal, we have a more profitable sale price and will add greatly to that profit by buying inflated options and maybe even buying their finance.

Following this trend, we also constitute a group of ~40,000 unpaid but motivated sales people. We present the product as best we can, buy heaps of parts, get the cars serviced by our local dealer, organise cruises, club days, track days, compete at the Dragway & Circuit Racing events, hold show'n'shines, collect and donate for charity, develop the product, try and be welcoming of new owners into the fold and "kindly" bash the opposition whether we've had a beer or not. We tell our friends and family how much we love our Fords and perhaps don't broadcast the fact that we've been screwed around with service in the same conversation.

After all that, we are good enough to provide detailed feedback on the product, sales process and after sales support at no charge!!! Damn we are nice guys!!

Why aren't Ford actively and publicly participating in this forum? Don't we matter enough to even get scraps of input from Ford??

edit - : don't forget the semi-loads of merchandise we buy either!

[Falcon Freak]

It is clear that we don't matter to Ford. A company which has so often displayed contempt towards its loyal followers is clearly one who does not care.

FF

[b2tf]

*this will be a long post so be warned.*

In answer to the thread question "do we matter to ford" - i think the answer is probably a bit more than a yes or a no. In the past we've had a lot of notable people on here, some names that come to mind are David Flint and Geoff Polites. Great blokes, and more importantly, they were a link for us, the enthusiasts, to the company that builds them. A very important link to have, but not always evident.

Anybody who thinks that Ford do not read these forums is kidding themselves, the issues regarding users posting up Orion pics and info is evidence of this. They do read it, whether the post or not. I can assure you that there are Ford people on here, you've probably talked to them in a post and not even known it (but as a mod, no I do not know who they are so do not ask).

Ford have always, and will always, do things that seem totally backward to us. We sit here and come up with all the model improvements we'd like to see and they never show up. We get annoyed, post up that Ford are losing the plot, have no idea etc, and it goes on. The model still sells while we all still sit here and wonder what will be next. Nothing wrong with doing this, but this is how it is.

I made the point in the other thread that if even 10% of the total user base was to buy a new Ford car every year, that would be over 3,000 cars sold. Consider that a number of these will be high-end cars such as FPV's, and you are looking at a significant group of people who I feel should have a voice. Not neccesarily input - but rather a voice. Sure we may not stack up against a fleet company who buys 1000+ cars in one go, but do the fleet company offer feedback on models, do they discuss them and make their thoughts publicly available for all to see? No, they dont. Hence why we as FF users are important (or at least should be) to Ford.

Continuing on - over 3,000 people who will at some point or another come into contact with Ford at a dealership level - be it through spare parts or service, or buying. Anybody who is in sales knows the rule that if you have a good experience you tell 1 person, if you had a bad one you tell 10. 3,000 x 10 = 30,000 people who will be under the impression that Ford dealers are thieves, their service departments could not service a bicycle, and that their spare parts are a ripoff.

Ford's argument to that will be that they have no control over things at dealership level - but should they? Probably. Thats another story for another thread though, the point here is that AFF represents a lot more than a few thousand regular contributors who post their opinions, and that to me is something Ford should be aware of and take into consideration. I'm not asking to be given a blank sheet and a budget to design the next FPV model, all I'm saying is "hey, I'm an enthusiast, Im part of a very large group of them, how about talking to us every now and embracing us just like we do your brand".

I'm of the general opinion that Ford have a hell of a long way to go in customer relations and enthusiast relations. I split that into two categories because there are two types of Ford buyer - the ones who will buy the car for work or family and leave it bog stock, drive it, service it then sell it, and the ones who will modify it, enjoy it, take care of it, take it to car shows etc and make it a part of their lives.


And just to touch on this point:

Originally Posted by Green X

But when you got someone who owes a AU paying out something about a BF2 Falcon why should Ford give a **** about what is said.

Well for starters, I dont care what model Ford you drive. You have just as much right to have input, as do i. EA or BA or anything inbetween, Focus, mondeo whatever - they're all Ford cars and they are all sold here. So I think your point is basically crap.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by b2tf

..... all I'm saying is "hey, I'm an enthusiast, Im part of a very large group of them, how about talking to us every now and embracing us just like we do your brand".

Pretty much.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by MNM96

This is not 'wholly' Fords fault. When I had a drama with my car under warranty, I booked it in for repair and recieved a loaner. When it was repaired, I picked it up. If it wasn't correct, I returned and demanded satisfaction.
If you don't have the nuts to do the same......

However, Ford should ensure their 'Customers' are treated properly by their 'Dealers'!

No loaners available and I can't do my job without a car, the aircon was stuck on cold so it wasn't that big a deal because I was putting it in for repair during the warmer months.

While a Ford service centre is a franchise, they're representing Ford. After dealing with 4 different service centres and being very unhappy with the lot, the Mondeo better be a ripper of a car for me to endure those service centres again.

[Geez Louise]

Thanks for the explainations b2tf and GTP006. Now I have a full understanding of this thread.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by b2tf

And just to touch on this point:

Well for starters, I dont care what model Ford you drive. You have just as much right to have input, as do i. EA or BA or anything inbetween, Focus, mondeo whatever - they're all Ford cars and they are all sold here. So I think your point is basically crap.

Is it cause I opted for a AU in my post??

My point was this, if Tom, Bill and Harry are sitting around on AFF talking about how ford should give the GT Falcon X,Y or Z modifications but non of em own a GT or would by one if said modifications were made to it for whatever reasons, then why should ford listen to what they are complaining about?.

Ford are in the business of making cars for people to buy not making cars the way people who aren't going to buy one what them to be made.

Of-coarse ford listen to what customers have to say, that's why you get that little questioner about the car when you buy it.

Why don't FOA openly post on hear, probably cause they couldn't keep up with the 40,000 questions and recommendations they would get daily.

[Deadman]

As most people are saying, no we don't matter to Ford.

That being said, Ford could be nice though and pretend that we do :P

I buy the best car I can find for my needs, and pride myself on not being a brand whore and just buying a car for the badge. However, I have a feeling that this was my first, and my last Ford.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Green X

Ford are in the business of making cars for people to buy not making cars the way people who aren't going to buy one what them to be made.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Green X

Is it cause I opted for a AU in my post??

Not at all, as I said I am not fussed about what people drive.

My point was this, if Tom, Bill and Harry are sitting around on AFF talking about how ford should give the GT Falcon X,Y or Z modifications but non of em own a GT or would by one if said modifications were made to it for whatever reasons, then why should ford listen to what they are complaining about?.

Why should comments or opinion be limited to owners of a current model? I liken what you are saying to "only GT owners can talk about GT's". Please tell me if Im missing your point, but if that is it, you have no idea.

Ford are in the business of making cars for people to buy not making cars the way people who aren't going to buy one what them to be made.

What about those who would buy the car if it was made a certain way? You cannot effectively create and market a model of car without listening to your target market. Perfect example of this is the car in the post above mine!

Of-coarse ford listen to what customers have to say, that's why you get that little questioner about the car when you buy it.

I havent bought new from a dealer myself, but my parents have in the last 5 years bought 2 new falcons, neither of which has come with a questionnaire.

Why don't FOA openly post on hear, probably cause they couldn't keep up with the 40,000 questions and recommendations they would get daily.

Maybe, how hard would it be for Rod Barrett to have one thread in the FPV section where he could post once a day, month, whatever - the point is that there should be at least SOME interaction with the enthusiasts, whereas at the moment there is next to none.

[SiKoRa_eL_97]

Originally Posted by fmc351

great post =D

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Perfect example of this is the car in the post above mine!

That was a result of the target market.

Truth is, enthusiasts have an idea what they like. The majority of buyers only know what they like after they see it.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by fmc351

That was a result of the target market.

Truth is, enthusiasts have an idea what they like. The majority of buyers only know what they like after they see it.

No it wasnt, it was a result of Homer saying what he wanted and not listening to those around him who told him what it needed to have in order to sell.

Truth is, enthusiasts have an idea what they like. The majority of buyers only know what they like after they see it.

I take it you work in Ford marketing then?!

[Scott]

Originally Posted by fmc351

The majority of buyers only know what they like after they see it.

True. BTW, it will so long as the brakes are off.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by GTP006

So we assume that this community, with regard to new car sales, is atleast as important as a major Multi-National's account. On the closing of the deal, we have a more profitable sale price and will add greatly to that profit by buying inflated options and maybe even buying their finance.

If you went to the butcher once a year and bought 100kg of meat, wouldn't you expect a better discount than the guy who comes in every week and buys 2kg at a time??

Fleet buyers are almost guaranteed sales every year, private buyers aren't, fleet buyers look more at resale than anything else, private buyers look at what is in vogue at the time.

Also with novated leasing as was mentioned earlier fleet buyers are having less of an impact as you can choose what you get so fleet aren't able to purchase the bulk numbers of one make as they once did. Manufacturers will soon realise that private buyers are now also the same people that lease as it's tax effective, and because people now have a choice they will need to pick up there game.

The biggest problem thus far has been the fact that they lose so much to major fleet companies that they need to make up the shortfall and it doesn't get much easier than fleecing private buyers. My old BA Mk2 XR8 which would have been somewhere in the mid 50's new to a private buyer was under $40K to the national fleet company that owned it previously, how much I don't know because the fleet manager couldn't say, however when I asked if it was much under 40 he nodded his head with eyes wide and a big smile.

If, on the other hand, you wanted to start a buyers group then you might have some power as you would then be representing, as you estimated, 800 new car buyers and would certainly be able to twist some arms at Ford HQ fleet division.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by b2tf

No it wasnt, it was a result of Homer saying what he wanted and not listening to those around him who told him what it needed to have in order to sell.
It was his brothers company. And Herb told the designers to listen to the average American as to what they wanted. According to Herb, Homer was the target market. Jesus Christ, we're arguing a cartoon.


I take it you work in Ford marketing then?!

Try asking the question here? Lets see what we can design. Should be interesting.

Ill start, big cup holders.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by GTP006

BTW, it will so long as the brakes are off.

*scratches head??????

[Green X]

B2tf>

1.>Not at all, if people intend to buy a car then ok, but Talk about buying a car isn't always followed by action. Ford only care about what a owner or a person who is going to by a GT has to say, If i say a GT should have this and that but then go and buy a XR8 well then why should ford listen, cause I am not a GT customer, they take my ideas change the car but don't make a sale


2. If ford took on board what every body wanted in say a GT, you'd have a 400RWKW supercharged V8 with X,Y and Z options that would cost $150,000 and only 10 people out of 100 who talked about it would buy it.
so
I guess that's why we have a after market industry,


3. I did, so that's all i can say about that.



4. well this could be done, but what could he say, he couldn't talk to us about any projects that are in the pipeline or any other developmental type stuff that hasn't already been found out by us anyway , that would be like me going into work grabbing some Technical Engineering drawings of a project and posting it up hear for rival company's to see and asking what people think.

I guess what he could do is ask stuff about FPV cars currently selling and get a enthusiasts feed back about them and take the good points back to the drawing table, but the ammout of moderation to edit out the Bull would be big .

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Green X

B2tf>

1.>Not at all, if people intend to buy a car then ok, but Talk about buying a car isn't always followed by action. Ford only care about what a owner or a person who is going to by a GT has to say, If i say a GT should have this and that but then go and buy a XR8 well then why should ford listen, cause I am not a GT customer, they take my ideas change the car but don't make a sale

Agreed that talk does not always convert into action, but looking at your example, if you were to go and buy an XR8 after looking at a GT, there would/should be a reason for it. It might be personal, or it could be to do with the product, in which case, Ford should perhaps listen. I should clarify that by saying I would never expect them to listen to every single person who does what you've used as the example, but rather in general, if there were significant and common issues/reasons coming up on a regular basis, that's when you would expect them to look at it.

2. If ford took on board what every body wanted in say a GT, you'd have a 400RWKW supercharged V8 with X,Y and Z options that would cost $150,000 and only 10 people out of 100 who talked about it would buy it.
so

Again I do agree with you but it would come down to:

*using common sense and filtering out the BS
*comparing/collating their previously gathered data/information
*the bean counters who work out the budgets for new models
*passing ADR's and all the other technical stuff.

Perhaps Ford could look at a system similar to HSV where a prototype is developed, deposits are taken, and if enough are taken the model is built. If no deposits no production. Would it work?

4. well this could be done, but what could he say, he couldn't talk to us about any projects that are in the pipeline or any other developmental type stuff that hasn't already been found out by us anyway , that would be like me going into work grabbing some Technical Engineering drawings of a project and posting it up hear for rival company's to see and asking what people think.
I guess what he could do is ask stuff about FPV cars currently selling and get a enthusiasts feed back about them and take the good points back to the drawing table, but the ammout of moderation to edit out the Bull would be big .

I dont think anyone would expect anybody from Ford/FPV to come and spill the beans about new models etc, I think most would be happy to have him (I'm only using Rod Barrett as an example btw) come on, perhaps answe r a few questions about what can and cant be done to GT's, what FPV likes about them, how they were developed etc. Yes moderation would be paramount (perhaps make it open to DM's only) but to have the ability to talk to someone within the company I think would be something that FPV owners would be glad to have.

I should point out I'm not out to can or enforce anybodys opinion, it's all healthy debate .

[Scott]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

If you went to the butcher once a year and bought 100kg of meat, wouldn't you expect a better discount than the guy who comes in every week and buys 2kg at a time??

No, not at all. And nowhere in the thread have I mentioned getting better pricing.

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Fleet buyers are almost guaranteed sales every year, private buyers aren't,

No, private people are the guaranteed sales. Why? Because they are a diversified risk. Put all your eggs in with Telstra and when that one company leaves you will bleed and bleed lots.

Originally Posted by XRQTR

The biggest problem thus far has been the fact that they lose so much to major fleet companies that they need to make up the shortfall and it doesn't get much easier than fleecing private buyers. My old BA Mk2 XR8 which would have been somewhere in the mid 50's new to a private buyer was under $40K to the national fleet company that owned it previously, how much I don't know because the fleet manager couldn't say, however when I asked if it was much under 40 he nodded his head with eyes wide and a big smile.

I don't know if it's a problem so much, it's how Ford pay the bills. I would have rather said that one group compliments the other - fleet provide the cake, we provide the cream.

Originally Posted by XRQTR

If, on the other hand, you wanted to start a buyers group then you might have some power as you would then be representing, as you estimated, 800 new car buyers and would certainly be able to twist some arms at Ford HQ fleet division.

Nah, the intent of the thread has nothing to do with pricing, just a want for Ford to engage this major financial powerhouse in some level of discussion be it about service, wish list, tours, sponsorship or just plain old chin wagging.

Show an interest is what I'm getting at.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by fmc351

*scratches head??????

Have a look at your avatar ya clown :

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by GTP006

BTW, it will so long as the brakes are off.

How??

[edit] oops, i think that might have been a joke... :dr_Evil:

[BlackLS]

With the Focus, Ive been sent surveys about Ford's service quarterly or half yearly, and on the car's 2 year birthday they gave me a phone call to see how it was going and then gave me 2 tickets to the Aus vs India cricket match on the 3rd!

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Have a look at your avatar ya clown :

I think I ate the slow pills today.

[Laminge]

We obviously have an impact at Ford HQ, in the past we have had several users who whilst working for ford lost their employment due to images or comments being posted.

We have other members who have been extremely proactive whilst being ford employees, taking on issues in various forums and reporting back.

Not to mention the old days of David Flint, Uncle Geoff and Sheila Vernon

Moving forward the admin will once again push the point of that an open communication channel will only be beneficial to all.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Laminge

We obviously have an impact at Ford HQ, in the past we have had several users who whilst working for ford lost their employment due to images or comments being posted.

We have other members who have been extremely proactive whilst being ford employees, taking on issues in various forums and reporting back.

Not to mention the old days of David Flint, Uncle Geoff and Sheila Vernon

Moving forward the admin will once again push the point of that an open communication channel will only be beneficial to all.

That'd be great wouldn't it. Seeing Happy Jack in the "viewing this thread" list was nice to see, letting you know there was an interest in what we have to say with the odd post was a bit of goodwill that went a long way. Remember U/D's??

On the other hand, being scared to post a pic with a rego or build number for fear of something you post coming back to bite you works in the opposite way. Lurking builds distrust.

[Taxman]

Ford view the owners of their vehicles here in Australia as a money milking machine. One only has to look at the prices they charge for parts and mechanical work. I have an Explorer, all the parts I have required so far are made in the US or alternatively have to be sourced from the US. Ford Australia is outrageous with the prices they charge. Some of you may well say it is the transport costs or the exchange fluctuations.

That being the case if Ford Australia really and truely cares for us poor little Ford owners, please explain how I can get genuine Ford parts from the States air freighted here usually in well under a week for roughly 25% of what the local dealer wants for the exact same genuine ford part.

I am sorry but I believe that all Ford care about me is how quick they can empty my wallet or run my credit card up to the max - pity I like their product, but then again are any of the other manufacturers any different?

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by MNM96

This is not 'wholly' Fords fault. When I had a drama with my car under warranty, I booked it in for repair and recieved a loaner. When it was repaired, I picked it up. If it wasn't correct, I returned and demanded satisfaction.
If you don't have the nuts to do the same......

However, Ford should ensure their 'Customers' are treated properly by their 'Dealers'!

Well put. same here, returned BA constantly until Diff was fixed. in the end wife said keep car until fixed and received loaner. This was after takeing to 4 Dealerships!