bashed to death for watering the front lawn

[V3RSAC3]

Originally Posted by VladTepes

Call me old fashioned buit that's not enough !!!! This guy has rage issues and needs to be taken off the streets for a bloody long time !

and he will be for manslaughter or murder ... he will be put behind bars for a very long time i would think?

[blueoval]

they said he was going down for murder 1st degree on news this morning.

[V3RSAC3]

well, there you go ... whats that, like 25 years? with no parol?

however, murder 1 does seem alittle steep, i thought that was only for pre-meditated murder? i would have thought manslaughter because, the old fellow died later in hospital ...

it's still sad though about the old man :(

[blueoval]

not sure mate. I guess they will throw the book at him though. Wouldnt want to be in his shoes either way.

[bingoTE50]

Very ordinary behaviour .I would bet there has been ongoing niggles between the neighbours for some time and this incident tipped it all over the edge.
For all you people out there ,take time out to say hello to your neighbours and try to understand them.
It may just eliminate silly disputes .

[zetec]

The old guy started it by hosing the younger guy... that's where it all began. I blame the old fella for causing the fight, however in no country on this earth would the 36 yo's response be acceptable. The old fella should have explained it was allowed but it's entirely possible that he maybe didn't know and was by chance hosing at the right time. Either way, both of them are to blame.

[zetec]

Originally Posted by blueoval

they said he was going down for murder 1st degree on news this morning.

Doesn't that imply pre-meditation? I'd hardly think it was if he was just walking past!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by XRchic

That is very dodgy. Let that be a warning to those of us who have had the little cheat here and there...

What sort of "warning" XRchic? (Apart from the fact that he was apparently watering legally) That your neighbours will mug you? The lynch mob? I thought it was the role of Water Board officers to deal with illegal watering just like its the role of Police to deal with poor road behaviour.

Someone said why is this on The Pub (car-related thread)? Well it doesn't seem too unrelated to the recent road-behaviours threads on "tailgating" and "the pinky". What happened to Australia the easygoing society? It seems to me a lot of us have become moralising aggressive prigs - very sad. The problem is not actually with the tailgater or the lawn-waterer but with those who feel the action is some sort of personal threat against them and need to deliver moral punishment personally. Time for a big national chill-out I think.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by ken2903

I think the younger guy did the right thing mentioning the water restrictions. Some people believe they can do whatever they want without thinking about how it effects everyone else. To be fair, its not just the 'older people' though from what i've seen a lot are often pretty stubborn.
In saying that though, there should have been a point for both of them when they should have let it go and backed off, nobody deserves to die for watering their lawn.

The 66 yo guy was not breaking the law, he was actually allowed to hose his lawn at that time of the day on a Wednesday..The ridiculous thing is why should people be allowed to water their lawn at all during a drought ???

[VladTepes]

murder
n. the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, ...

manslaughter
n. the unlawful killing of another person without premeditation ...


So yeas it would seem manslaughter could be proved but murder ? But then I'm no expert.

My opinion:

You attack someone --> someone dies --> you get locked up for life, or executed (dependent on circumstances).

Vote 1: Vlad for PM / King / Autocrat / Dictator / Emperor / Tsar / Kaiser

[Buf-Phoon]

Originally Posted by V3RSAC3

and he will be for manslaughter or murder ... he will be put behind bars for a very long time i would think?

Given some of the sentences handed down in recent times ,unfortunately I would not count on it. Just a terrible waste allround

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by ozmale42

The 66 yo guy was not breaking the law, he was actually allowed to hose his lawn at that time of the day on a Wednesday..The ridiculous thing is why should people be allowed to water their lawn at all during a drought ???

As i said before, that wasn't mentioned until after my post.

For the record i think the younger guy should go to jail for a very long time but I just don't think its 100% his fault. If both of them had acted like adults the old guy would be alive and the young guy wouldn't be on his way to jail (or wherever)

[uranium_death]

Sad story, but that's life.

I suggest a manslaughter charge, which when found guilty, will be beaten hard over the knuckles with a wet lettuce leaf.

[normxb]

Woh ! , Let's just wait a little longer .

To me , the "Story seems to start a little further in ". Not at the beginning .

It doesn't say who spoke or sprayed first ?

Option 1/ Young guy comes and Hassles the old man first , and threatens with force or Obnoxious language . The old man only has the hose to protect himself . The other fellow has Youth on his side .

Option 2/ The old man spray's the young guy "Walking Past"

Option 3/ There has been previous antagonism between the two .

None of us know , how about we wait until the outcome is proven .

Going against what I have just written ...

If Option 1/ is proven ,
Old man ,,,, 66
young guy , 36

Silverwater, 30 yrs seems to balance out , IF it is proven that way

[Sourbastard]

all that is known, is there was an altercation, one bloke is now dead.

As to the rest, I wouldnt trust the media to report on it. Its the kind of story that gets spin and hype, as this thread shows. Judgement based on a Media report and passion will never reflect truth. But what do I know, im not cool enough to sit in the bandwagon with some of you guys.

[gtfpv]

perhaps they were neighbours. and the younger guy drove a gtp , the older drove an f6.

truly though . what is the world coming to when , we have dob in a neighbour scheme. and further more . a man is dead over a few litres of water.

[|||]

maybe the old guy had the hose hooked up to the hot tap by mistake

[Pinch]

Tragic, and a waste of a life.

Like Paxton, I live not very far from there at all.

One aspect now reported that may explain (but certainly NOT excuse the offender) is that he was on hard core pain medication for a back problem that deteriorated in the hours before the incident. So he probably wasn't thinking straight in the first place, then when Mr Proctor (older guy) hosed him, he snapped.

I only wish Mr Proctor had just huffed off and not hosed him - we might not have been talking about this.

With a law degree (but not a criminal lawyer), I can't see how they can make Murder stick. No premeditation - the younger bloke would have to have gone there specifically with the intent to kill or seriously injure - not just walk past and it happen from there. Manslaughter at best.

Its the same with retaliating to any aggression on the roads - you never know who you are dealing with or what they will do. Much better to just let it go. A bruised ego is better than a loss of life.

It also raises the question of whether to confront people these days about transgressions or if its simply better to 'dob' them in to authorities if you reckon some one is breaking the law and let them deal with it. Especially if you don't know what you are talking about or don't know the law. There was a recent blog on the Sydney Herald site about dobbing in mobility parking 'cheats'. I had an unfortunate experience a few years back when I was the UNFORTUNATE legitimate holder of a MPS permit. After being confronted many times (never retaliated - a bit hard in the condition I was in) I gave up driving to treatments and dr's. Especially when some idiot did 2.5K damage scratching up my XR6 because they 'thought' I was cheating the system. If they wanted to trade 11 operations, 110 grand (95 paid by health fund though) and 9 months of my life for one measly disabled parking spot - then they were more than welcome. Sometimes even if you 'think' someone is doing the wrong thing - they might not be. Someone said this above too.

[bob 351]

Originally Posted by |||

every drop counts

what for a life you are kidding arnt you

[ms700]

When you think you are doing something legally (which Mr Proctor was), and someone tries to tell you that you are breaking the law, usually we would (well i would anyway) correct them!

Not many people would just huff and walk off after being told that you are breaking the law, when you damn well know you are not.

[my gt]

well steve bracks theres another kill for ya, thanks for looking after us victorians with water

[atec77]

Originally Posted by V3RSAC3

well, there you go ... whats that, like 25 years? with no parol?

however, murder 1 does seem alittle steep, i thought that was only for pre-meditated murder? i would have thought manslaughter because, the old fellow died later in hospital ...

it's still sad though about the old man :(

I expect he will be out in less than 7 years.. if he cops a stability plea then 2 years in a suitable institution and freedom.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by ozmale42

The 66 yo guy was not breaking the law, he was actually allowed to hose his lawn at that time of the day on a Wednesday..The ridiculous thing is why should people be allowed to water their lawn at all during a drought ???

He commited common assault by watering the younger man , the end does not justify the means .

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by ms700

When you think you are doing something legally (which Mr Proctor was), and someone tries to tell you that you are breaking the law, usually we would (well i would anyway) correct them!

Not many people would just huff and walk off after being told that you are breaking the law, when you damn well know you are not.

I too would certainly correct anyone verbally, but if it escalated I would disengage. You sadly never know who you are dealing with, what they are on, or what they might do. Telling someone your not in the wrong is one thing but taking any other action, especially anything physical or damaging is pretty foolhardy unless you are in a position to take and defend whatever comes. Its sad but true. While at the far lower end of non-verbal retaliation, spraying someone with a hose is taking the next step. Certainly not deserving of a physical assault or heaven forbid - death, but I still can't wonder if we would be talking about this if that next step wasn't taken.

[Boss 5.4]

Lock him up for a long time, he didn't just hit the guy, he even laid in the boots afterwards, The old guy was watering his lawn when he was allowed. No-one knows what was said prior to the squirting, I am sure it was not "excuse me sir, is this your legal watering day?" and the old guy snapped and sprayed him.

Very sad I must say.

[ExAreSix]

WTF? Are you for real?

And to think you and I actually live on the same planet. It's scary...

:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

The problem here is that some people get their ego confused with their abilities. This 66 year old man might have been a tough bloke 25 years ago. Calm words could have resolved this issue.

At the end of the day, some stubborn old man was watering his garden and wanted to be a hero with some knucklehead that has anger management issues and no brains. I bet that if this stupid old man just turned off the tap and went inside for a few minutes, he’d most likely be alive today.

[DJL351]

I see this one going around and around.... then, come page 5, the name calling will begin, followed by the personal attacks and stories of "The same thing happened to XXXXX".

Either way you spin it.... it's sad.

Lets just cut it here. Two lives and two families...... Both are struggling in different ways.

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by new2ford

What sort of "warning" XRchic? (Apart from the fact that he was apparently watering legally) That your neighbours will mug you? The lynch mob? I thought it was the role of Water Board officers to deal with illegal watering just like its the role of Police to deal with poor road behaviour.

It was a smart remark at how easily you can cop it from someone for doing something trivial, relative to the response!

I was implying that I might want to be careful that some psycho doesnt come and bash me with a cricket bat if they see me "cheating" a little with my own watering.... hence that it is a scary thought that this can happen...

I think that it is very dodgy that someone could be attacked in any way for it. That was my point - apologies if anyone misunderstoon my post.

Oh, and I think we should be able to water our lawns during the drought at the times we are allowed to, because some of us have put a lot of work into our gardens, take pride in our homes and want to try and prevent our kids from having to play on dead, dusty, dried grass! As long as we water our gardens in accordance with the law, then it should be ok.

I think it would be ridiculous to say to ban all garden watering, unless it was at the point where it was required. There are degrees of dought. This drought is bad, and getting worse and I will stop watering altogether when told to, but I hope we can avoid that. But I am looking at alternatives to lawn in the even that happens, such as my fake lawn thread in the Bar.

I dont think people should be blamed for being concerned about their gardens during the drought either. And the guy was not breaking the law anyway - which is almost not the point, given that it does not change the fact he is dead. He should not have been attacked, breaking the law or not.

I hope water restrictions are not going to cause dramas in communities in the future, as I suspect the conditions will get worse before they get better.

[xbgs351]

Many of the comments made in this thread have made me feel ill. I really feel that some retractions are required.

[rodderz]

Has to be more to it....it has been reported in a way that the older bloke simply hosed the guy after he was abused by the young bloke, to which he walked over and belted him.

So far thats the only info, the people there would know the full story, maybe the young guy had mental issues, maybe there was a history of neighbourhood disputes, we don't know yet