Tax the rich?

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Sorry but it's like me saying pay 57% of my hire car tab because I don't want to use govt buses or trains.
Like I said previously they will survive w/out govt funding, the bs argument

Government trains and buses are not a free service so your analogy makes no sense.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by karj

Going off-track from the original topic a little bit, I know that conservatives (including yourself) tend to hold up the rorting of the BER as a policy failure, but I'm just wondering if you have actually been out to your local schools to see the impact that policy had on re-vitalising infrastructure (particularly in low-socioeconomic state schools, where infrastructure was particularly poor)? The BER is certainly not a policy above criticism, but the net benefit outweighs the rorting in my opinion (I couldn't say the same about the home insulation mess though).

I just had to add that I lived next to a rural primary school up until a year ago (6 students in total) that made the front pages of The Age as it got a lovely big new building, which meant the school had officially more buildings than students! :-)

I know that's an isolated case but its a bit of a worry all the same,

[XBROO]

What's this rich people only send their kids to private school crap? My kids go to private school and I'm on the dole.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

So Joe Hockey is planning to raise income tax on us in the Fed budget in 2 weeks. Great!

Meanwhile the following still occurs:

* those in the criminal economy dont pay income tax
* many/most of the very rich dont pay income tax
* those in the cash economy pay some or no income tax

Great!

But at least these 3 groups pay GST. When they visit Maccas, buy a Maserati or fly from Syd to Cairns. Even if a company or other entity they control pays for these things the GST is still being paid.

I challenge anyone here to tell me why income tax should be raised for you and me while the 3 groups above wont do a shred of heavy lifting on budget night.

Solution: raise the GST, broaden it. If it hurts some grannies, raise the pension.

Just back to the OP for a moment.

Is there a chance debating a topic like taxation, that has no correct answer only various opinions, is distracting us form what is happening right now?

For the second election in a row a Prime Minister has made guarantees about taxation before an election, and then reneged on those guarantees once elected.

Both of our major political parties are guilty; do we just suck it up?

[cheap]

The new tax (masquerading as a levy) is a vey bad move. Besides to political issues, I would have thought taking a good hard look at the public service and tightening entitlement through more rigorous means testing would have offered more benefit.

Based on the senate numbers and likely inability for legislation to get approved, we're looking down the barrel at another election late this year.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by cheap

The new tax (masquerading as a levy) is a vey bad move. Besides to political issues, I would have thought taking a good hard look at the public service and tightening entitlement through more rigorous means testing would have offered more benefit.

Based on the senate numbers and likely inability for legislation to get approved, we're looking down the barrel at another election late this year.

Its amazing Cheap, we are agreeing more and more on this topic than ever before.
I think you are right, probably for different reasons, but same outcome.
What we lack in this era is leadership. All sides of headline grabbing sound bite politics is about placating lobbyists and their interests rather than making tough or otherwise decisions for the best of the country and it's people. Our country is divided over many issues, we haven't had a landslide vote outcome in a long time and we haven't had leaders we would get behind.
A true leader can ask their followers to suck it up and convince them the pain will be worth it. What we have lately is people in power (not leaders) making populist decisions further exacerbating the problems.
Their is no solution to this problem other than waiting till a real leader comes along! or fix the problem ourselves individually.
JP

[cheap]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Its amazing Cheap, we are agreeing more and more on this topic than ever before.
I think you are right, probably for different reasons, but same outcome.
What we lack in this era is leadership. All sides of headline grabbing sound bite politics is about placating lobbyists and their interests rather than making tough or otherwise decisions for the best of the country and it's people. Our country is divided over many issues, we haven't had a landslide vote outcome in a long time and we haven't had leaders we would get behind.
A true leader can ask their followers to suck it up and convince them the pain will be worth it. What we have lately is people in power (not leaders) making populist decisions further exacerbating the problems.
Their is no solution to this problem other than waiting till a real leader comes along! or fix the problem ourselves individually.
JP

Like I said I try to be balanced. You will find there are many conservative people who don't agree with all the coalitions policies unfortunately it is easy to be painted into a corner and various labels applied with class ware fare thrown in for good measure. Likewise there are ALP people with valid points, however my experience these 'sane' ALP voices are few and far between, over-ruled by the lunatic fringe and faceless men running most of the party - pandering to loud minorities.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

The reason public schools spend more on kids is Becoz there filled with the disabled kids whose parents are probably on a carer pension the poor with **** parents who centerlink sit but won't work and thus cost more time and expense to educate but u can't blame a kid for that and yet these kids will never have the chance of a private school through no fault of there own how is that fair on the children of this country. The whole system is ****** up and needs to be fixed democracy doesn't work haven't we realized that by America and England now.

Kids with special needs have special teaching available, in some cases one on one. At least that happens in the state schools where my wife teaches. The whole idea is that no one gets left behind. In my experience wealthier parents with special needs kids will seek private tuition for their kids, we know a few.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Government trains and buses are not a free service so your analogy makes no sense.

It does because public education isn't free either. There's books, uniforms, excursion fees, school fees etc etc.
Both services are effectively provided and subsidised however by govt.
We've been brainwashed to feel that it's ok to subsidise non govt schools.
IMHO It's a rort and stopping this could save the govt billions which is one of a range of measures I've already suggested

[jpblue1000]

Every child in this country should be supported by the community at school to reach a minimum standard that society expects from that level of education.
As such the taxpayer funded component should be offered to each and every child irrespective of color, creed, religion or parents wealth. If the child parents choose or can afford to augment this figure and send them to a private school or more expensive state school so be it.
Our fair go society should not differentiate on any ground and aim to ensure all children meet a minimum standard.
Not all Private schools are super expensive or inundated with the greatest facilities, not all public schools are poverty stricken.

The BER was about the building industry more than schools, but what better way to spend money bolstering an industry than to benefit schools.
It was generally a good policy with a few pimples compared to many.

JP

[Trump]

Here's an idea... make education voluntary, move the responsibility to educate one's child onto the parents?

[MAD]

Some children don't deserve to suffer from their parent's shortcomings.

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by JC

Anyway, taxing the rich should be aimed at anyone who earns more than $200k per year as a single, or $300K as a couple. Anything under that is really middle class these days, and not what I would call "rich". Unfortnately, the real target group probably minimise their taxable income by going through trusts etc, so who is left to pay? The middle class.

and there it is. i was wondering when someone would finally put a monetry figure on what "rich" really is, thankyou

i'll try real hard to tell myself i'm "rich" when i'm at work at 2am in the middle of August and that my family can help pay off the $900 Rudd payments, even though us "rich" people never received a cent of it because we were over the threshold at the time.

looks like i'll need to salary sacrifice a lease car

[mcnews]

Don't you feel rich, and lucky? I know I do.

[burnz]

here's an idea!! increase tax for the fuel we use for our cars.

oh wait there going to!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-0...se-tax/5438056

[Thornie]

The sacrifices and hard work and effort I made to earn some decent coin seems pointless now, bloody government wants to take it, Don't I pay enough income tax as it is?

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by cheap

Like I said I try to be balanced. You will find there are many conservative people who don't agree with all the coalitions policies unfortunately it is easy to be painted into a corner and various labels applied with class ware fare thrown in for good measure. Likewise there are ALP people with valid points, however my experience these 'sane' ALP voices are few and far between, over-ruled by the lunatic fringe and faceless men running most of the party - pandering to loud minorities.

Are you sure your last name is not Bolt ? Is that you Andrew ?

[zilo]

Public schools are staffed by teachers in one of the most militant unions.

So many times in the past they chose to go on strike in the most critical time of the year for year 12 students.

Public servant attitudes educating my kids? NF Way.

In business we did a lot of IT work in state high schools and all they were pumping out was factory fodder in a lot of state High schools....the conversations we overheard in the staff rooms made us shake our heads....and glad that we chose private schools for our kids.

Makes me puke when people insist that private schools shouldn't get the same funding as state schools.

Most of the people who send their kids to private schools are husband and wife working hard just to get the kids through....and they don't sook about it either.

I had 3 kids at a private school all at the same time and tell you what...I could have been posting on the Lamborghini forum instead of Ford if I had used the public system...$33k a year per kid we paid...for 6 years,

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by zilo

Public schools are staffed by teachers in one of the most militant unions.

So many times in the past they chose to go on strike in the most critical time of the year for year 12 students.

Public servant attitudes educating my kids? NF Way.

In business we did a lot of IT work in state high schools and all they were pumping out was factory fodder in a lot of state High schools....the conversations we overheard in the staff rooms made us shake our heads....and glad that we chose private schools for our kids.

Makes me puke when people insist that private schools shouldn't get the same funding as state schools.

Most of the people who send their kids to private schools are husband and wife working hard just to get the kids through....and they don't sook about it either.

I had 3 kids at a private school all at the same time and tell you what...I could have been posting on the Lamborghini forum instead of Ford if I had used the public system...$33k a year per kid we paid...for 6 years,

Thank god your kids didn't have to suffer too much dealing with those pesky public school kids eh
I'm sure they got a better education, sense of reality and life skills solely due to you paying $33K per annum each for six years.
Oh and that would indicate that they attended public primary schools for the years prior. You know those years where you learn to read, write and spell and all that vital groundwork without which you're stuffed.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Thank god your kids didn't have to suffer too much dealing with those pesky public school kids eh
I'm sure they got a better education, sense of reality and life skills solely due to you paying $33K per annum each for six years.
Oh and that would indicate that they attended public primary schools for the years prior. You know those years where you learn to read, write and spell and all that vital groundwork without which you're stuffed.

Reality check for you....it took all those years to plug all the holes that the state system created...

Such as handwriting....was almost infantile even at grade 6.

Also the stupid "multi age" classes where the class size could be 50 plus kids and supervision and bullying rampant.

I have a doctor, an economist and an engineer at our place, no body art, no pierced eyebrows and no drugs.

The 33k a year included a year of life skills in the bush culminating in a 30k marathon run, no mobile phones, TV or Xbox....


How much would I pay to not have my kid fail?

Everything.

[xxx000]

Yeah those poorly funded and resourced public schools certainly do struggle and produce nothing but the riff raff.

hope your kids don't have to associate with anyone from them now

thank god you had all that money to buy those results, certainly glad my tax dollars produced qualifications that mean something to you. That marathon was worth over $1000 per km! Wow

does that school give you money back if you don't get a top level pass and resulting bragable quals?




public

[cheap]

I'll say it again, people would be surprised at how many state school teachers prefer to send their kids to private schools, we personally know of +20 families.

These families are not overloaded with cash,they do not live in flash houses nor drive upmarket SUV's, there would be a message in there.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Debt tax on 80,000 income earners anddddddd it's gone unless u earn 150,000 a year

What amazes me... ALP hand out money left right and centre via stimulus payments, but doesn't give it to high income earners. Then when its time to repay this money, LNP will be asking it only from high income earners.

if you didn't know better, you'd have sworn this was a Labor policy....

[b0son]

Originally Posted by cheap

there would be a message in there.

that people will pay for something they think provides value. speaks for itself at the outcry over the proposed GP visit payments.....

[BHDOGS]

I have no issues with people sending there kids to private schools i have issues with me paying a subsidy to help them pay for it. But thats australia isnt it everybody paying for everybody elses bullshit and why democracy doesnt work. To many minoritys like private school people sucking at the tax payer teet the gov always pandering to these loud minority's to **** scared to do anything about.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by zilo

Reality check for you....it took all those years to plug all the holes that the state system created...

Such as handwriting....was almost infantile even at grade 6.

Also the stupid "multi age" classes where the class size could be 50 plus kids and supervision and bullying rampant.

I have a doctor, an economist and an engineer at our place, no body art, no pierced eyebrows and no drugs.

The 33k a year included a year of life skills in the bush culminating in a 30k marathon run, no mobile phones, TV or Xbox....


How much would I pay to not have my kid fail?

Everything.

What I've bolded kind of emphasises why state schools need more funding than private. If parents can afford private, great, but don't belittle public because of your issues with it. Those kids deserve an equal chance as well. Why? It's nobodies fault that they are born into the life they are

Hell. I am one of those kids. Single parent, two kids, state school (ex tech school). I'm an engineer, and my sister is an accomplished author and full time editor.
But we both have tatts and I have piercings. I suppose that's the state school's fault, and that makes us riff raff.

On the flip side, I know plenty of kids who went to private schools and have drinking/drug problems, demand everything, want everything on a silver platter. Oh and most are inked and pierced.

I think what that demonstrates is how parenting effects children.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by zilo

Public schools are staffed by teachers in one of the most militant unions.

Hang on..... But isn't that also where 99% of our esteemed State Labor pollies originated from?

Just on that note... Be bloody interesting to get the stats on the number of pollies that have EVER held a fairdinkum job (not a "protected" job) Not a union delegates job.. A REAL bloody job... In the REAL world?
OR, how many have run their own business and waded through the minefield of obstacles that makes it SO damn hard to justify employing people?
Makes my friggin blood boil, I'm telling ya!

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by b0son

What amazes me... ALP hand out money left right and centre via stimulus payments, but doesn't give it to high income earners. Then when its time to repay this money, LNP will be asking it only from high income earners.

if you didn't know better, you'd have sworn this was a Labor policy....

It cant be a labour policy sir abbot wouldnt allow such things hes all about the hard decisions dames or sirs? as for the deficit raise the taxes and petrol and LET THEM EAT CAKE.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I have no issues with people sending there kids to private schools i have issues with me paying a subsidy to help them pay for it. But thats australia isnt it everybody paying for everybody elses bullshit and why democracy doesnt work. To many minoritys like private school people sucking at the tax payer teet the gov always pandering to these loud minority's to **** scared to do anything about.

I would not have a problem in not subsidizing the public schools. I'd also be overwhelmed with delight if I were not required to subsidize free housing, free medical, free legal aid and so on..

I'm all in favour of an individual having the ability to make choices for themselves, I'm in favour of small government and for people being required to pay their own way for the services they require.

I would gladly sign a contact to never seek any "free" government services so long as I my taxes were fairly reduced.

[MAD]

As a society, we should be providing 'free' access to all those things for those that need it.
It's where I want my taxes to go.