"industrial" motor

[MS33LU]

I have come across a square block 351 Cleveland with an engine number of NDxxxx. Owner says its an industrial motor he purchased new. What is an industrial motor?

Please move (or remove) if necessary, wasn't sure of which section.

[Tassie f100]

Could have been used in lots of different applications.Maybe welder,compressor,pump etc. Could even have originally fitted to a boat or off road truck.Really any application that didn,t need transport authority numbering.

[wodahs]

from memory the differences on these are minor
cam (internal) to suit the application its performing
and a carbi intake/governor set up to have it run at it desired speed when under load

[MS33LU]

He says the motor had more torque and was more suitable for towing. He kept it in the car and didn't rebuild the old one.

[wodahs]

so theres a bigger story than him just telling you its an "industrial" motor
why did he buy it was it for an industrial use and then end up in his vehicle or did he buy it to fit to the vehicle its now fitted too ?
is he misinterpreting truck motor (eg f series or bigger) for industrial motor
when hes saying new , is he saying new never in its entire life been run before or new had been rebuilt
american clevelands never came with an engine number and some were stamped by governing bodies (eg state licensing) when relicensed in an australian vehicle

[MS33LU]

He still has old winsdor 302 stored away, new oversize pistons and rebuild kit on top of his wardrobe. Bought the new unused 351C industrial motor from a company that ford supplied. The owner and myself both live Geelong, where the Ford plant is (or was). He got it off a local company that sold new ford parts. The owner is now in his mid seventies and he replaced it in the mid to late 70's. He remember a lot but not all.
Motor was stamped ND ****, don't know if it was stamped by Ford or the rego authorities when he notified them of engine change

[Aulpgute]

I recall conversations from a couple of guys now in their 70's who used to have concrete trucks back in the day which had Holden red 202's and pre crossflow Falcon motors running hydraulic pumps to spin the agitators

[Tassie f100]

A lot of the early agitators used car based engines,starting with grey holdens,then the various size reds.They didn,t,t usually use hydraulic drives but rather a big reduction gearbox driving a big ring gear on the front of the barrel

[Dr Terry]

I've seen a lot of old concrete agitators driven by 6-cyl engines over the years, but never a V8.

A 351 Clevo might've driven a stationary generator or something like that.

Dr Terry

[aussiblue]

See the adverts here:https://www.flickr.com/photos/aussie...57663046610241

[aussiblue]

Also see https://itstillruns.com/ford-460-eng...n-7202728.html

Ford manufactures engines for nearly every use. Ford industrial engines are in tractors, heavy equipment and numerous machinery applications; the variety manufactured by Ford throughout its history is extensive. How you identify Ford industrial engines depends on the engine in question, and finding the casting number is your primary challenge. The casting number may be in several locations. Ford marks its industrial engines according to the same general system as it does those for automobile and truck engines.

Step 1

Find the engine, casting, or part number. Ford places the part number in various locations, depending on the engine. Common locations include the rear of the engine, near the starter mount and bellhousing, on the front of the block's right side (when looking at it from the front), on the left side of in-line-cylinder engines, or by the oil filter mount. "C8NN-6015-J" is an example of a Ford part/casting number.
Step 2

Decode the Prefix portion of the Ford part number. The prefix in the example, "C8NN," decodes as follows: the first position "C" indicates the decade, the 1960s. Ford uses the code with "A" designating the 1940s, "B," the 1950s, up to "G" for 2000 to 2010. The second position, "8," identifies the decade year, 1958. The third position, "N," identifies the block as manufactured for use on a tractor. The final position, "N," is also a tractor designation.

Identify the basic part number and suffix portions of the Ford part number. The part number casting you will find on the engine block is the part number of the block itself, with the basic part number, "6015," designating an engine block. The suffix portion, "J," is a part change indicator, with "J' identifying the tenth modification of this particular part. "A" identifies the first modification.
Tips

On some blocks, the middle section basic part number may be omitted, making the number similar to this instead: "C8NN-J."
The third and fourth position of the casting number prefix are the most important when identifying Ford industrial engines. Third position letters include "J" and "N," which identify industrial and tractor engines respectively, and "L" and "N" identifying Industrial and tractor engines in the fourth position.

[MS33LU]

Thanks for the replies. I haven't checked casting dates yet but I know its a square block. Engine number stamped at the front starts with ND or it might be IND. Have to recheck

[foxtrot3]

Hi. Another point about "industrial" engines is that there may have been no sales tax paid on it where as an automobile replacement engine would have had 15 or 17.5 % sales tax applied to the price. Cheers MD

[MS33LU]

You could be correct with that. The story goes that he took the 302 out for a rebuild, had it rebored, bought all the new parts. He found out about 4 new 351 sitting in a local business. Decided to put one of those in but still has original engine and stuff in his bedroom with some under the bed and the rest on top of the wardrobe.

[Interceptor]

fwiw, a friend has a 428 in his mustang, and the block was originally sourced from mercruiser….

[Citroënbender]

Is this mystery motor in the XT with no ID plate?

[MS33LU]

Yes it is but ID plate found. He took it off because it was just hanging on by one rivet. It's on top of the wardrobe with all the original parts for the Windsor rebuild. He used to tow a car around and the 351 had a similar power but more torque down low. Owner was 75, has many stories to tell. Car is extremely original and all other numbers match up with owners handbook.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

A 351 Clevo might've driven a stationary generator or something like that.

Dr Terry

A stationary something, but unlikely to be an electrical generator. Due to the requirement for 50 HZ output, the shaft speed of a generator is fixed to either 750, 1500, or 3000 RPM. At the power output of of Cleveland engine (around 250 kW) a diesel would be more fuel efficient by a long way. (Rule of thumb to produce 250 kW electrical power is around 55l of diesel per hour.) Power delivery for electrical generation is all wrong as well, with the Cleveland peak power coming around 5400 RPM, and not down at the bottom end.

Interesting mystery though ... or a bit of diversion to hide the true history of the block.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

fwiw, a friend has a 428 in his mustang, and the block was originally sourced from mercruiser….

Mercruiser did also use 351 clevos for marine use. My boat has a mercruiser, its a marinised 4.3L chevy vortec v6. So iron block which is effectively a modified pickup truck motor. I think the marine versions are more towards torque and reliability. Rev limiter of my boat is 4800rpm.

[MS33LU]

Any older members from Geelong on the forum. Engine was purchased from Gallaghers (????) that was in Thompson Rd. Have personally seen the engine number but whoever stamped it is another story.

[falconhell74]

I've come across clevo's, winsors and a couple 313 polly motors in old wood chippers that were classed as industrial motors.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by whynot

A stationary something, but unlikely to be an electrical generator. Due to the requirement for 50 HZ output, the shaft speed of a generator is fixed to either 750, 1500, or 3000 RPM. At the power output of of Cleveland engine (around 250 kW) a diesel would be more fuel efficient by a long way. (Rule of thumb to produce 250 kW electrical power is around 55l of diesel per hour.) Power delivery for electrical generation is all wrong as well, with the Cleveland peak power coming around 5400 RPM, and not down at the bottom end.

Interesting mystery though ... or a bit of diversion to hide the true history of the block.

I didn't necessarily mean a 50 Hz style generator, I've seen a lot of welding generators & compressors etc. that were trailer mounted for transportation site to site.

A friend of mine is into stationary engines & has a few of these driven by old Holden 6-cyls & one by a Valiant Slant 6-cy.

Dr Terry