Have we come forward much in the last 12-15 years?

[FTE]

VT to VF has come further than Kingswood to VT.
Engines :
Cast iron VT V8 with 179kw to 220kw to VF 270kw-430kw alloy,
VT 3.8l pushrod V6 with 147kw to the supercharged 171kw to the VF 210kw 3.5 double overhead cam

Suspension:
is much better, IRS was a headliner for VQ in 1990 but remained unchanged to VT, VX added a link (VT2 GTS actually) but the E series introduced a new suspension which is more advanced over the old IRS is to the coil sprung 70s car. Especially with HSV's MRC

Stiffer body by 50% over previous model, side panel is one piece.

Safety:
Electric park brake, switches off automatically if forgotten. Electronic steering, park assist, trailer sway control (controls instability of trailer by reducing torque and applying brakes, Launch control (different to traction control in VT), Electronic stability control, Reverse Traffic Alert intuitively scans rear cross traffic and warns you of any approaching vehicle hazards, Side Blind Zone Alert system, Rain Sensing Wipers, A camera, located above the rear view mirror, scans the road ahead up to 14 times per second. When a collision is predicted, the driver is alerted with an audible tone and a visible e alert in the Head Up Display, Bi Modal exhaust

and the list goes on.

[Itsme]

Whether cars are new designs or refined they are advancing all the time with new technology & added accessories so yes they are moving forward, the only issue is quality of new cars has gone backwards imo.

[xbxd351]

The biggest advancement for the Falcons has to be from XC-XF. In 1978 the a 6 cylinder XC had carb, points cable speedo and leaf spring diff. By 1984 when the XF came out you could have EFI, electronic ignition, full digital dash and coil spring diff. That's some massive advancement in a short period and it's now the meat and potatoes for todays cars. Having said that I would still take an XC over an XF any day of the week but that's just personal preference

[DanielXR8]

I think what has changed is the cars of the 70's were just plain uncomfortable. The majority had no air-conditioning, no power steering, carb engines with manual choke that always seemed to need a tune up, part time brakes and generally crude engineering. They had character, but they could be pigs to live with at times.

By the early nineties, even on basic cars, much of this has been addressed and the average large or small car was quite reasonable to live with. They had also made big strides in reliability and reduced servicing too.

I can remember the revelation my Laser S was over the TF Cortina S I had owned previously. Just the air-conditioning, power streer, disc brakes and fuel injected engine, put it well and truly into another league. That is before you noticed every bit of engineering in the car was a step ahead of what I had been used to and in the real world, this showed when you drove it. The EL Falcon that followed it and the two B series Falcons were all improvements in many ways, but the Laser S was what got me out of the seventies era engineered cars and that was the biggest change in cars for me.

My new VF is also a big leap, but not on the same scale, because all cars today are comfortable and all do a good job of the basics. Now its about refinement, creature comforts and fine tuning the cars engineering.

The next big leap probably won't be until the petrol engine is phased out.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by FTE

VT to VF has come further than Kingswood to VT.
Engines :
Cast iron VT V8 with 179kw to 220kw to VF 270kw-430kw alloy,
VT 3.8l pushrod V6 with 147kw to the supercharged 171kw to the VF 210kw 3.5 double overhead cam

and the list goes on.

Bit if an odd comparison?

Take the Vf hero car against the base VT V8? VT had a 300kw v8 also lol

In actual fact look at VT2 GTS to VE2 GTS, 300kw to 317kw.. 17kw in 13 years?? The real jump is from VE to VF just in the last few months not from VT lol

Ford progression has been a little more sustained but performance wise came from a low base (Windsor v8) to a very tall peak (f6 & boss335). The 6s or everyday cars have been more gradual in their progress.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

Bit if an odd comparison?

Take the Vf hero car against the base VT V8? VT had a 300kw v8 also lol

In actual fact look at VT2 GTS to VE2 GTS, 300kw to 317kw.. 17kw in 13 years?? The real jump is from VE to VF just in the last few months not from VT lol

Ford progression has been a little more sustained but performance wise came from a low base (Windsor v8) to a very tall peak (f6 & boss335). The 6s or everyday cars have been more gradual in their progress.

I am beginning to think you don't want to believe there is progression regardless of what you're shown. I mean you asked if VF is better than VT, so I used VT as the starting point (not VT2) so it's not an odd comparison at all, it's just part of the whole journey from VT to VF.
Yes the biggest leap was from VE to VF in power but your question was based on whether the cars have really changed that much and since VT they have, even if the majority of that change (in power) was recent history.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by FTE

I am beginning to think you don't want to believe there is progression regardless of what you're shown. I mean you asked if VF is better than VT, so I used VT as the starting point (not VT2) so it's not an odd comparison at all, it's just part of the whole journey from VT to VF.
Yes the biggest leap was from VE to VF in power but your question was based on whether the cars have really changed that much and since VT they have, even if the majority of that change (in power) was recent history.

I accept your position going from vt series 1, this is factual as you say.

However, you must agree it's a bit misleading as the big change power wise came vt2 and then nothing for 13 years. Misleading to suggest that this change was spread over the 13 years.

For Holden it's been big change vt to vt2. Nothing for 13 years then big change from VE to Vf. Ford has been more progressive.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by zilo

You are obviously not comparing apples with apples.
Your new Triton is a diesel and you compare it to a petrol predecessor.

The petrol version of your Triton uses 15-17L/100km on a good day.
Sometimes 25l/100km on a bad day.

Have a read here matey

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/vi...?f=99&t=113929

Sorry, I should have gone into more detail. Diesels from an earlier (non turbo or common rail) era used to chew through fuel like there was a hole in the tank if you tried to maintain a high speed or had a load on. Six cylinder full sized family cars used to drink like fishes as well. Eights? Forgettaboutit.
Nowadays six cylinder Falcons and Commodores sip fuel better than fours of previous decades, and even large diesel four wheel drives now get amazing economy. Hell, even a modern V8, driven on the highway at legal speeds on a trip, will beat four cylinders of the past easily.

Our '82 Celica is extremely lucky to do 10ltr/100 unless it's cool weather and steady highway driving, and that is an "excellent" figure for its time. If you told someone now that your four cylinder car couldn't get better than 10, they'd wonder what was wrong with it.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

I accept your position going from vt series 1, this is factual as you say.

However, you must agree it's a bit misleading as the big change power wise came vt2 and then nothing for 13 years. Misleading to suggest that this change was spread over the 13 years.

For Holden it's been big change vt to vt2. Nothing for 13 years then big change from VE to Vf. Ford has been more progressive.

I am in no way misleading at all. In no part did I refer to Holden/ HSV making no increases to power in 13 years, I am saying that there is a change from the 2 models your original post included (VT to VF).
What HAS occurred though is you have realised Ford have been more progressive in those years and answered part of your own original question, which is Ford HAS progressed since the late 90s.

Holden over the years haven't increased power since The 2005 VZ series 2's 260kw in base form, Holden use 260kw with VF displacement on demand (270kw without DOD).
HSV however since their first massive increase of 70kw in 2000 over the previous $100,000 1998 blueprinted 230kw Senator Signature 10th anniversary model has not been matched until a similar hike 8 years later with a 68kw upgrade over the E Series 1's 307kw when they released the W427 with 375kw.
Then again things slowed until GTS finally got to 317 in E2 and 325kw in E3 then the VF came out with 105kw increase over that.

So to recap, HSV had 230kw in 1998, 300 in 2000, 375 in 2008 and 430 in 2013.
They are significant changes to top tier cars.

[P6LTD351]

In a lot of ways I agree with the sentiments of the OP.

I can remember when my dad bought a brand new XF in 1985. Previous to that, we had an XB. We were all gobsmacked at the difference in ride. The XF was so smooth. It was the first time that we said - "it doesn't feel like you're going the speed limit", it was that smooth compared to the XB.

Now fast forward to my daily - an AU. Love the ride. For work, I had to drive a 2012 Commodore on a trip. Without bias, I couldn't feel any improvement in the way it rode compared to my AU. Sure, there were more mod cons. Other than that, I thought my AU stood up very well.

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

In a lot of ways I agree with the sentiments of the OP.

I can remember when my dad bought a brand new XF in 1985. Previous to that, we had an XB. We were all gobsmacked at the difference in ride. The XF was so smooth. It was the first time that we said - "it doesn't feel like you're going the speed limit", it was that smooth compared to the XB.

I reckon much of this is simply deteriorated suspension componentry - perished rubber bushes and the like.
Even different/old tyres, will add to the effect.

I have an XF S pack, with 47,000km's on it, and it feels tight as a drum, so smooth and quiet to drive. Steering box, 1960's suspension design and all.

People do forget what they were like, as the deterioration is such a gradual thing.

I also put a set of $150.00/corner Goodyear tyres on my 250,000km EL Wagon, and when cruising, it's deadset whisper quiet inside.
I daresay it'd be even better, if I renewed the bushes and replaced the original shock absorbers.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

People do forget what they were like, as the deterioration is such a gradual thing.

.

It's true when they say you grow old with your car.
Things you live with and become used to would be picked up straight away by someone else.

I wouldn't mind driving an EB series 2 again, last one I drove was mine in 1994. It was a great car back then when new, great lights and a/c, be good to see after 20 years. Age and wear I didn't see would certainly be noticeable.

[Kayos]

This thread, are you serious

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Kayos

This thread, are you serious

This post, are you serious ?