VicRoads and engine conversion

[Franco Cozzo]

Hey guys, I'm looking at moving onto my next project once the Falcon is on the road and I've been eying off a particular car which an easy engine conversion can be done, problem is:

Project car was built in 2003, new engine is from 2001-2002 but from the same series of car.

New engine is 2L, old engine is 1.8L.

Power from the new engine is 127KW, power from factory engine was 91KW.

Only optional in Japan, wasn't offered here in Australia (But there was a 2L engine offered in Australia, different engine though).

Now, the new engine in question actually has the same block, just different internals and head to the factory engine, so there is no need to modify anything structural for getting the engine into the car, even all the accessories fit on, same with gearbox, sensors, ECU, loom etc.

Looking at VicRoad's website we have three options here:

Change of engine:

1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle

The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine have been completed.

You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre to have the vehicle's engine inspected to confirm the new engine details. No appointment is required. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form.


2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used

You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form and provide VicRoads with:

a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine


3. Replacement engine is not of a type and/or make offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle, but is equivalent in general configuration, power, mass, and emissions standard to that of the original or an optional engine for the vehicle model and can be installed without any structual alterations.


The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that engine, have been completed.

A Change of Vehicle Description form must be completed providing new engine details. An inspection to confirm engine details is also required unless a Certificate of Roadworthiness or VASS Approval Certificate including the new engine number is provided (only for a currently registered Victorian vehicle). An original receipt for the purchase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.

When a VASS Approval Certificate has been supplied for a replacement engine, then an equivalent replacement engine can be fitted without another VASS Approval Certificate being presented (eg 350 c.i. V8 engine replaced with 350 c.i. V8 engine).

Options 1 and 3 look like what I'm covered by, with option 1, maybe since they have the same capacity (2L), they could be convinced the Jap engine is the 2L ADM one which was optional?

Option 3, does it still need to be engineered?

Thanks much guys, this is a bit of a HF.

[LG17]

Just use your block that way everything matches.
No need to change anything.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by LG17

Just use your block that way everything matches.
No need to change anything.

So reckon its worth keeping factory block and swapping over head and internals onto it to avoid problems with registering?

[bennyk351]

Nothin is simple even when you just ring to ask a simple question, they put you through to about 3 or 4 different departments to still be no clearer after an hour on the phone,

[noflac52]

I think if you read further or maybe on a previous page of the regs you will find that it applies to engine changes without any engineering required. Under the national code of practice it is ok to increase engine capacity and or power by up to 20% without engineering requirements.

[Franco Cozzo]

What about if the engine is older than the car?

[Darren351]

as long as its same model , year wont be an issue.

whats the engine code for the 2 engines ??

I have swapped boss 290's where 220's have come out and required an engineers. but i have also converted Nissan Patrols from 3ltr diesel to 4.2 diesel and havnt had any issues with vic roads.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Darren351

as long as its same model , year wont be an issue.

whats the engine code for the 2 engines ??

I have swapped boss 290's where 220's have come out and required an engineers. but i have also converted Nissan Patrols from 3ltr diesel to 4.2 diesel and havnt had any issues with vic roads.

Engine code as in numbers?

Or model names?

FP-DE is the factory engine, FS-ZE is the replacement I'm looking at.

[Darren351]

The 1.8 L (1839 cc) FP is a destroked version of the FS, with an 83 mm bore and 85 mm stroke. It produces 122 hp (91 kW) and 120 lbf·ft (163 N·m). This engine is often incorrectly called the F8, which is the earlier destroked engine based on the FE. The FP enjoys a much better power band vs the FS due to slightly different camshafts and a better rod ratio over the regular FS-DE.
The FP is very close to the FS in many ways and shares a large percentage of parts but has its own FP specific block, crank, rods, pistons and timing belt. The pistons for the FS produce a compression ratio of 9.1:1 (USDM) but when FP pistons are used in the FS they yield 9.7:1 compression ratio. The biggest performance difference is that the European 1.8L FP & 2.0L FS both have maximum compression of 15.0 bar (213 PSI) vs the North American 2.0L FS which has a maximum compression of 11.5 bar (170 PSI). The KL & FS ATX engines both require 10* BTDC ignition timing while the FS MTX & FP require 12* BTDC. The FP shares the same G25M-R transmission as the FS.

this info states a different block , but in reading this info i wouldnt think vic roads would have an issue with it. and trying to get a straight answer from them is nearly impossible , personally i would go ahead with the conversion and then approach vic roads with it as a engine change rather than a engine conversion.

[Franco Cozzo]

I emailed VicRoads, got a reply saying my email has been marked for response, so lets see what they say.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Hey guys, I'm looking at moving onto my next project once the Falcon is on the road and I've been eying off a particular car which an easy engine conversion can be done, problem is:

Project car was built in 2003, new engine is from 2001-2002 but from the same series of car.

New engine is 2L, old engine is 1.8L.

Power from the new engine is 127KW, power from factory engine was 91KW.

Only optional in Japan, wasn't offered here in Australia (But there was a 2L engine offered in Australia, different engine though).

Now, the new engine in question actually has the same block, just different internals and head to the factory engine, so there is no need to modify anything structural for getting the engine into the car, even all the accessories fit on, same with gearbox, sensors, ECU, loom etc.

Looking at VicRoad's website we have three options here:



Options 1 and 3 look like what I'm covered by, with option 1, maybe since they have the same capacity (2L), they could be convinced the Jap engine is the 2L ADM one which was optional?

Option 3, does it still need to be engineered?

Thanks much guys, this is a bit of a HF.

Option 3 says it needs a VASS report.
To my mind that means a VASS engineer needs to sign off on it.

I've tried to have sensible conversations with the VASS guys...good luck trying to find one interested or having the specialty you require.
You can only use the guys that are on the VicRoads list.

I am in Geelong and the closest is Tomkin Consultants in Adelaide.
He wanted to be flown down to inspect the vehicle and his daily $$$ rate paid.